“Hey bro there are many sales that are not reported!” That seems to be the mantra of half the commenters when a post is published regarding reported sales data.
This is not news, everyone knows this, the posts I am referencing never made any implication that these are the only sales, or run your business by these numbers only.
Some people ran with the numbers, such as a post I wrote on what domain extensions sold in 2019?
Rick Schwartz took to Twitter
This upset some people who left comments on the post. Rob Monster called Namebio swiss cheese on this post.
No one can comment on the unknown, the unreported, what’s the point? The data literacy of many in the domain industry may be low.
I mentioned in one comment that many years ago while watching “The World’s Strongest Man” competition, a friend said to me that he knew a guy that was stronger than the winner. I said who cares, he did not compete, he did not have his feats of strength recorded. On top of that, I don’t believe you know someone stronger than this year’s strongest man, you might not care that I don’t believe you same as I don’t care about things that can’t be proved.
One of the battles taking place in these “many sales are unreported” are between new gtld proponents and old school .com domainers. That makes sense because if you are big on .chat and there are no reported .chat sales for 2019 you need some way to bolster your investment/belief. Hey man trust me I know a guy who sold 100 .chat domain names, he didn’t report them, why would he report them?
He would reported them to give some kind of baseline to .chat sales, show there is a pulse. Many years ago when I started the .tv subforum everyone made sure to get .tv sales reported to show some sales volume.
You also can’t have it both ways, I am a very private person, but oh I will post every place I can and talk non stop. Thought you were a private person? Either you are doing something in private and amassing a wealth of names in a certain extension you believe is going to do well or you want to get into public spats everyday.
The other thing to consider when talking up unreported sales to make your preferred new extension seem stronger would be the following: If there are x amount of unreported .whatever sales how many unreported .com sales do you think there are?
When covering companies and extensions and sales, the reported data is the data that matters. How will someone comment on something they don’t know?
It’s the same with sales announcements, some want to say I just had a great sale, sorry can’t tell you any details but trust me, it was great. Some say congrats others dislike the post, or say they don’t believe.
Some do what happened today on Namepros, one member Dosebuy of .cx fame, posted he brokered a name for 6 figures, can’t give any details. Rob Monster chimed in because Epik was used, Rob mentioned it was a two word brandable and an example of shooting the moon.
Another member made what I believe is a troll post saying they sold a brandable for $2million, but of course cannot reveal any data.
Right after Rob Monster called Namebio swiss cheese here, I believe commenters were trolling him by saying they sold 8 figure and 9 figure domain names.
So this all seems stupid, either we analyze data or we all just talk shit. A great way to dupe a new investor is to say, “Hey thanks for your interest in my .LOL, I know there are no reported .lol sales on Namebio but trust me one guy I know sold 300 last year, don’t mind Namebio they are Swiss cheese.”
It goes without saying that there are many unreported sales. What we need to determine is the value of the reported sales, how data, known or unknown can be manipulated, especially to take advantage of new comers, and how does it affect domain investing strategy?
Great article, love the title, mock the trolls. Happy 2020
Raymond, there’s a lot of false logic in what you’ve written here e.g. people would always publish sales I they are public enough to comment on articles – absolutely does not have to be the case.
Also as a reminder my initial comment on your article is in response to Schwartz and others using your “data” as evidence that sales are dropping or that no sales are happening.
Maybe instead of this article you should write about why Schwartz and others feel the need to twist your “data”.
There is no false logic as I see it, I understood the point. If you are private stfu and be private.
People can share what they want to share.
Just as people are free to mock and disbelieve people they believe to be fools. So now what? we are all free to do whatever.
No no false logic Matt, wrong. My point was not what you wrote, it was if you are private person, be a private person. There are many things over the years that I have been privy to in .tv that when someone posts .tv sucks, I don’t come out and lash out against, and say there is a lot going on you don’t know but I know. If I can’t say the stuff because it’s private, I don’t engage. In addition I know the person I would be debating doesn’t believe me.
>If I can’t say the stuff because it’s private, I don’t engage.
Which is important, as there are some people we know and have trust of, so if they simply said “Wrong” some of use would actually treat that with respect and be willing to “read between the lines”.
“A decision is the action an executive must take when he has information so incomplete that the answer does not suggest itself.”
– William Radford
“Powerpoint makes us stupid”
– James Mattis
Raymond, you’re trying to say how private a private person should be.
I’m not sure if I’ve calibrated my privacy to your standard or if it’s some other offender you’re talking about, but surely it’s up to everyone to decide themselves and listeners/readers can be the judge of what’s likely made up or credible.
I don’t automatically assign a value of zero to someone’s voice if they partially share, I assign that zero to people who use snippets of incomplete data in an attempt to manipulate a discussion (not you Raymond – yes you Schwartz).
You really should get a new hobby, you are an absolute bore. Rick Schwartz made the case that most of the industry agrees with, you and the rest of those new gtld investors hiding in the ether feel differently. The fact is .xyz and .nyc and .life had very few reported sales.
Those are the facts!!!
You’re not adding anything to the discussion. Noone is denying the numbers of reported sales.
So what is your point?
Excellent write up, the unreported sales data has little value because it cannot be verified. As you pointed out easy to manipulate. If you are successful in quiet that sounds great, but if you step into the public arena, you have to put up and prove yourself.
Personally I have put out a lot and shared a few of my successes, but noone has to continue to do that when there is no upside of the sharing.
For most people making $ with new Gs we are incentivized to say little, working the niches and keeping competition in the drops low.
I love to share, to receive and give feedback, but there is something toxic at this time when some folks will use this type of data to further say that new Gs are dead when I have shared evidence to the contrary — they are manipulating it making illogical inferences.
No one is saying new Gs are selling more than .coms (that would be ridiculous) but consistently turning $20 into $500 (or $5000) is a great business.
There’s money to be made at this level with new Gs, so why try to poop on that? Seriously, why would Schwartz need to take this data and say folks are dumb if they ignore the data and continue to waste $ in new Gs?
This isn’t my reality and I don’t think 25x+ is dumb especially with the consistency I’m experiencing with .NYC (I have shared a lot already and would love to share more in future).
So is Name Bio an asset or a liability? What do you guys think?
For new G sales it’s pretty meaningless. It will catch up over time as folks report sales, but there is value and logic to folks protecting niches.
I shall sold domains over past 20 years, not one has ever been reported.
Was that English?
Most are DUPES – allowing ‘pros’ to go around saying things like this:
https://232174-811319-raikfcquaxqncofqfm.stackpathdns.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/com-sales2-1024×443.png
It goes both ways :/ You’re right, PROVE it, or quit wasting our time!
All those posts about “I sold secret.domain for xxx,xxx,” – big deal – meaningless! *eats your cookie*.
You can’t choose to ignore the data you have because of the data you don’t have.
This is what we have and it tells a very vivid story for anyone that’s astute enough to figure it out.
Put in your own data and see how much it changes things. If at all.
>Put in your own data and see how much it changes things. If at all.
Great point.
Reminds me of the Student T tables, this is what is incorrectly used to do political polling. The table maxes out at 600 to 1200 samples (which is why you see numbers around that so much), even if the total population is infinite. Basically, so long as the samples are RANDOM they generally reflect the entire population no matter its size. Thus Student T’s whole basis is you don’t need to know everything, and that there is a small risk of error making such estimates.
No one is saying ignore the namebio data. Another misrepresentation.
What I am saying, is don’t attempt to manipulate people by citing this info as gospel in your over capitalized tweets that only seek to push your agenda.
In terms of my sales, I’ve shared quite a lot on my site and you continue to spout that .NYC has failed despite clear usage across the city and sales shared… Your attacks on all the new Gs smells like fear, and I get it, you have a lot of marginal .coms. Otherwise let them die and move on. It’s like you’re obsessed.
Also .NYC is exceptional that it has a solid a $25 reg fee, one of the few domains with a nexus requirement and 60-70k solid registrations.
But sure Schwartz, if you don’t know how to make money by carefully and smartly investing in new Gs then it’s not your incompetence, it’s the whole new G program.
Are you serious? You could live to be 120 you will never make what Schwartz has made in .com with .nyc, you will never make 5%. You probably should have picked on a lesser .com guy, to pick on Rick seems stupid.
It’s what nobody’s do. There is nothing great about .nyc, my brother lives in Manhattan, did not have a clue there was a .nyc extension. Works in finance, not a hippie or a hobo, he uses technology everyday. #NoClue
Yep, heard that one a lot. That some new tld (whatever they chose to invest in) is somehow “exceptional”, somehow different to all the others. Mike Berkens summed it up well when he said .tokyo, .nyc and other geos were “basically death”. Will be some usage, but not doing very well.
Some domainers claim .io is the main extension for crypto and .gg is the main extension for games, whilst domainers outside those industries “can’t see it”. Ends up being a hollow argument every time. Likely has some usage, but it is small and it is an alternate tld in those markets.
And if I recall, Michael Berkins purchased some super key word domains in the .miami extension, and conveyed at the Asheville meetup-conference that sales had not been favorable. If I misunderstood his reporting, my mistake.
.com is gold
less valuable precious metals: .org, .io,, .ai, co, .de, .uk and an assortment of other country codes: .ca, .in, it, es, com.au, .ie, .to, .tv, .us, id, .cc
@VR – well I guess if your brother doesn’t know, that changes everything. Forget the usage across the city and let’s extrapolate that one data point, your brother.
Sure it’s a small sample size, but what the heck. Everyone VR’s brother doesn’t know about .NYC so the 65k regs, usage and sales aren’t really happening.
In fact, I asked my puppy about .com and he gave me a blank stare so it looks like .com doesn’t exist either… Which is funny because he’s into tech, I know because he bites the TV remote.
> I know because he bites the TV remote.
Then the proper term is luddite 😀 😀 😀
Charles, reading the Wikipedia description of the Luddites got me thinking about the similarities of the never new G folks.
Luddites: secret oath-based organization of English textile workers in the 19th century, a radical faction which destroyed textile machinery as a form of protest. The group was protesting against the use of machinery in a “fraudulent and deceitful manner” to get around standard labor practices…
History repeating itself?
>History repeating itself?
“Nothing new, under the sun”
– Solomon
People don’t like change. Change is the nature of innovation. Innovation intrinsically is wasteful as it explores possibilities, often for the goal of profit.
I read in interesting article about the R&D labs of the most successful companies, their R&D labs have a failure rate of about 50%. Anymore than that and the company tends to go belly up, any less and they lose market share to competitors. It was shown that a 50% failure rate turns out to be ideal at keeping on the “bleeding edge” of your industry (called “wisdom”), while feeding enough successes into your company to make great profits …. So R&D can “continue to fail”, so the company continues profiting.
And that tends to be the part about bringing Rick into these discussions that really bugs me. Why is the goal to “be” Rick? If domain investors are making a profit and HAVING FUN, of if they are able to do it full time to pay all their bills and HAVING FUN, then what does Rick have to do with it?
Anybody doing this full time and paying their bills, having no boss, is well ahead of most of the people on the planet. That is focusing on what you have versus what you think you may not have. Its ok to be different and think differently … That is called innovation, its the foundation of what got us all here on this thread in the first place.
If you are not doing that well, then consider Ricks comments and suggestions, as well as those of many others like Snoopy …. And if you are NOT failing a bit you are probably NOT learning …. Its ok to have some failures, FLOWERS.MOBI ….
Charles – interesting re: R&D 50% failure = 50% success… Guess the 50% successes make the $ tab worth it.
I haven’t seen anyone wanting to be Rick. I certainly don’t.
My challenges are because of the tactics and also the character he displays when speaking about .com or new G investors. Especially new investors.
He twists facts, ignores valid info, and is really disrespectful to many folks.
The name calling may just be his style but it’s unnecessary and if he has those thoughts about people who are either losing a few $ for a hobby or making a few dollars (or more than a few) why does he continue his slurs? Who does he think he is??
He’s just so fragile that the moment I ask him why he registered childpornography.com in the 90s, or to answer why he bought flowers.mobi for 200k later selling for 6.5k, or why it was reported that he has thousands of .CO’s he runs and his proxies step in!
>Guess the 50% successes make the $ tab worth it.
Venture Capital talks about seeking a 10% “success” rate. They don’t necessarily lose money on the 90% “failures”, but its the 10% successes which is where they make most of their money. If they are not having a lot of “failures” then they know they are not taking enough risk to get the reward they seek.
Yes, the 50% failures have a cost, but also produces understanding that competitors don’t have = Education is expensive. The 50% successes each benefited from that understanding or “costly education” as well.
Beware of anybody that never fails …. This is not an argument to encourage failure for failure’s sake. People probably should be learning to buy and sell .COMs (less risky) as well. Even Venture capitalists have investments in low risk assets.
Frank – nice to see you’re trying to fight DomainSnowflake’s battles for him one day he’ll man up and reply with substance.
What makes you think I’m saying that $.nyc > $.com ? Where did you get that takeaway from any of this?
Go back, read it through again and take another shot.
People use this NDA/unreported sales argument as an excuse for extensions that are obviously doing badly. It has been trotted out for nTLDs and others like .tv and .us for the last two decades and it is a rubbish argument.
The best way to see what is “really happening” is to look at what gets reported. If an extension has hardly any sales reported, that doesn’t mean it is magically an extension where people don’t report much, it means what is below the surface isn’t that great either.
Can’t argue with ignorance. Best of luck to you, Snoopy.
May your future be more successful that your past.
.ai sales are off to a good start in 2020
i picked up a few at the auction today. I was bidding on another, but after it broke 5 figures, I folded my cards.
If I never sell another .ai, my ROI is considerable -most sold to companies with at least series B funding (over 30 million in funding)..a few companies that purchased my .ai domains for their brand/sites have been acquired by google, microsoft, uber, baidu and amazon.
No giant sales- mostly mid-high 5 figures – 23 sold. still own 35 more (all premium key works & focused on AI capabilities)
The extension should have legs for a few more years. I really like how Vince runs the registry in Anguilla. He was a pioneer in the computer software/open source sector in california for many years before moving and settling in anguilla with his large family. very well-organized and lots of entrepreneurial experience