As most know Kate Buckley wrote an open letter concerning the threads on Namepros that questioned the validity of certain sales Kate brokered.
Tonight Namepros posted their reply to Kate, they sent it to her personally and also decided to share with the community.
Hi Kate,
Excellent letter to the community! Well articulated and supported by credible sources. That’s the way to do it.
The truth is the ultimate defense
We respect that you took the time to respond professionally and open a dialogue for everyone to be more mindful when posting questions and doubts.
NamePros has also experienced these things firsthand many times. We have been on the receiving end of more false statements about NamePros than any other domain company we’ve seen, even on our own forums. We like to respond the same way: with history and facts to support our statements.
Although we appreciate that challenging and questioning things is good for our industry, everyone needs to be responsible and careful about how that is done. Everyone should try their best not to state things as facts unless they are certain about them, and even then, it’s possible to believe something is a fact and be wrong. In many cases, the intent is more important than being absolutely right because it’s impossible to be accurate all of the time, even if we all try our best to be.
We also understand that strong opinions often come across as being stated as facts, even if they aren’t intended to be. On the other hand, some people may try to use this as a debate tactic to cause others to think, “I don’t know that I feel as strongly about my opinion as they do, so maybe they’re right.” But that doesn’t make it an appropriate or professional way to express concerns, doubts, or engage in a debate. Everyone can try to do better because no one is perfect.
Here are a few relevant things that may interest you to know for the future:
As a service, NamePros does not decide what is true or false. We are not judge, jury, or executor, or arbiter, of the truth. There are legal systems in place to deal with that, and while we have legal counsel to protect NamePros, our own expertise is in domain names and not law. It would be inappropriate, irresponsible, and impractical for us to behave like a legal system, so we do not. However, that is generally unnecessary because a simple, honest response is all that is needed, as you’ve done.
Given that users are solely responsible for what they post, and although some of our users may appear anonymous to you, it’s helpful to realize that very few users are truly anonymous. Often, public information or contacting people they’ve conducted business with can uncover their identity.
So even though someone’s identity may appear anonymous, difficult to find, or be unknown to you, it does not necessarily mean that it is actually unknown to the public or to others. It may just not be easy to uncover, but it could be publicly available if you took the time to uncover it.
Most importantly, we do have rules that are designed to protect and uphold the integrity of the community. Therefore, if a member is repeatedly questioning your sales that you’ve proven to be true, attacking you, or otherwise harassing you in some manner, then we have rules in place that will enable that to be stopped. The best way to let us know about that is to contact our support or use the Report link on the relevant posts.
Finally, we want to commend you again on the letter you wrote; it is one of the best we’ve seen. Sincerely well done. It’s a great example of how we would respond to such incidents, and it’s exemplary of how others should strive to respond, too.
As always, we’re open to feedback and here to help in anyway we can.
Regards,
Team Bravo
NamePros Moderators
The post that caused the commotion is still up and the opening post was never edited. I take it Namepros believes they are protected, I say that from this wording in their letter to Kate.
“As a service, NamePros does not decide what is true or false. We are not judge, jury, or executor, or arbiter, of the truth. There are legal systems in place to deal with that, and while we have legal counsel to protect NamePros, our own expertise is in domain names and not law. It would be inappropriate, irresponsible, and impractical for us to behave like a legal system, so we do not.“
I don’t pretend to be a lawyer so someone with an actual legal qualification could weigh in on that if they like.
Personally I believe the word fake should have been edited out of the title. The member has no proof it’s fake. Namepros should know the member does not know that and suggest a different title.
Thank you for posting this. I see no one mentioned it on namepros and it’s been up for a few hours. namepros letter seems a bit weak.
I’ve run forums for many years on some of my sites like Daycare.com. Any person posting can simple write “In My Opinion” and make any crazy statement they want. What they can’t do is libel or slander someone stating something as fact that is not, even incognito. The furthering of the libelous non-truth is the facilitator (NamePros), who knowingly allows the destructive post to continue to be propagated across the internet.
I am no lawyer, but if I were NamePros, I would with edit, delete or place a editor’s note on the offending post making readers aware of its falsehoods. The fact that NamePros were made aware and then responded to the falsehoods give them a higher risk of vulnerability as a party of the offender.
Maybe a lawyer can chime in here to put a lawful professional response to this.
I agree Michael, things that you don’t know should always be in my opinion. No one can call something fake, that they don’t have proof it’s fake. Pretty simple stuff but it seems to always get crazy with some posts.
“….if I were NamePros, I would with edit, delete or place a editor’s note on the offending post making readers aware of its falsehoods”
Exactly, well said!
Attacks just drive away legitimate and qualified voices and replace them with trolls and fakers.
Trolls always get protected and legitimate discussion is ALWAYS the victim. SAD!
No safe harbor for anyone that has something to contribute without getting attacked.
As for Namepros, Not impressed with the letter.
They try and praise Kate while at the same time giving her the back of their hand.
I hate “Rules” and “TOS” that should be updated and not a place to HIDE BEHIND!
Namepros is great. But it is also RAT INFESTED!
Would I or you go to a great restaurant that had rats running around??
This is not directed just there. It’s directed at all forums that let the animals run wild and seldom protect anyone else!
Rick..Absolutely CORRECT..The letter from Namepros is just a joke as far as I am concerned. I had the exact same issue with Namepros on a person with the initials AD, (we all know who that is) who flat out stole from people. Namepros is covering its butt..plain and simple.. Seriously, if the person had any integrity that commented , they would have removed it and publicaly apologized to Kate and the community..Rat infested..is correct
Rick, you’re so smart! They coddle those spreading falsehoods and claim to be doing us a favor with allowing free speech. They have no idea how to moderate. They drive away people that respect honestly and reality.
The outcome is that it becomes an echo-chamber for lies and any unsupecting noob joins and believes it. Being mislead! Namepros is TRASH <- not opinion, for the record.
I myself, have owned and managed a few forums over the years.
1) No user should be required to disclose their identity. It’s just a forum, nothing more. That’s the reason why you’re given options for your profile and username. You are giving forums way too much power. If the forum is filled with bad actors then that’s the forum’s reputation on the line. For the most part, I think NP is doing a good job of moderating considering how busy the forum is.
2) Why would you have to state that your comment is your opinion?? It’s a given that each post is the opinion of the person posting it. To make the forum responsible for what one member posted is not right. So, should NP start doing background checks on every member? Should NP start censoring members for sharing their opinions?
3) There is nothing illegal about this post, even though it may be wrong. If you want to make this a legal matter for slander, then the victim can take the offender to civil court. But there is no crime involved for defamation.
With that said, NP has the right to edit or delete the slanderous post, but that decision is up to them. I know most blogs and forums are typically against removing content, as controversial as it may be.
Disclosure: IMO
> “No user should be required to disclose their identity”
Absolutely right.
> “Why would you have to state that your comment is your opinion??”
Exactly. I.e. “should” in the sense of “required.” However, see what I wrote elsewhere about the guy’s post.
> “There is nothing illegal about this post, even though it may be wrong. If you want to make this a legal matter”
Right, nothing criminal, at least not in this country, but maybe civil.
You raise some important points, Steve. There have and no doubt still are some who grouse about identities in these very blogs too. Absolute nonsense. And one wonders how anyone doesn’t notice how that relates to the very existence of privacy anywhere, such as, um, with domain names?
And for the record, I don’t believe I have ever met Kate or know her personally.
I only know her from her spectacular and consistent sales.
I am responding to Rick Schwartz’s comment that he was not impressed with the namepros response.
I tend to agree and disagree…. let me explain…
1. I don’t like that the response was put into a quote where it can be easily missed. Without expanding the quote the response has minimal visual impact.
2. I don’t like this Moderator team Bravo stuff, which is basically moderators hiding under an anonymous title, which is exactly what Kate was talking about. There is too much anonymous posting on namepros and since this is a marketplace we need to make sure we know who we are dealing with instead of just an avatar. Same goes for mods and all users, people behave when they understand everyone knows who they are. This is why more and more comments are using facebook, (which I dislike) but at least it lets us know who we are responding to.
3. I do appreciate that namepros responded but they may have missed the mark by waiting too long.
4. I do agree with Rick, namepros is great but it also has it’s challenges as any large community would. I think they are genuinely trying to moderate and keep the forum in line but I think that will never be achieved with anonymous posting. As a marketplace it is time they stand up and force members to reveal who they are, in their profile, if they want to participate in the marketplace or in any places where the grownups are having a discussion.
MapleDots – You know very well why we use Mod Team accounts, and while your family may be in a safe neighborhood and you feel protected enough to use your identity while being a forum moderator, that does not mean everyone is in your same situation and some of us have young children to think about and protect (Without the safeguards of a neighborhood watch), and that is far more important. Read more on that here: https://www.namepros.com/threads/why-are-there-mod-team-accounts.1156861/
Lastly, our response on this is nothing new and wasn’t really necessary since it’s already been established many times over the years. We have not said anything new in this situation. Our practices on this are well established, including how we deal with it ourselves. We sent her a message as a professional courtesy because we know it’s a frustrating experience and we empathize with it from dealing with it ourselves. We shared our message with the community for anyone who isn’t familiar with NamePros.
I understand completely why you need protected moderator accounts, I was in the same situation when I ran my forum but it basically boils down to allowing anonymous posters. That was my mistake too and why I had similar issues to moderators on namepros. When people post with their known identity then we don’t have to hide behind avatars. As a marketplace should which often has rampant theft should we really be allowing anonymous posters? Personally I think not.
Disregarding and saying I have said nothing new is exactly why namepros is turning into a free for all. Sure it has lots of good interactions but it way too many trolls which gets us into situations we should not be in. Now I am not calling anyone a troll as it pertains to this situation but I will tell you that trolling is the reason a lot of the top posters have called it quits.
So please don’t disregard my statement so easily…. just look around and see why some of the top domainers are not posting anymore, do you think Kate wants to argue with an avatar? Don’t you think she would much rather respond to a real person?
PS. For anyone wondering, I have spoken to Kate on a few occasions now and she is a wonderful lady and the industry is lucky to have her. She is about as professional as it gets.
Kate was never a top poster at namepros, she was not a part of the community at all and had like 6 posts before all this. So why she defended herself makes perfect sense. Yet she was never a member of the namepros community.
Says the guy who even deleted his account once because NP would not remove some of his personal data?
You sir are an incredible hypocrite! Consider a career in politics, success awaits you.
What “Moderator” says below applies to every single user as well. There is no need for the world to be able to track your business easily. For most people, who are not residents of fancy environments with below zero crime rate, it can become extremely dangerous. What do those who get all whiny because of some “internet trolls” know about danger though…
The infestation of NamePros, cited by The King, is evident in virtually all aspects of the domain name business.
Immunity to the disease, the infestation, increases in direct portion to the side of your portfolio and how aligned it is with .com names registered between the years 1995-1999!
Happily, the “Kings” feel little affect.
The lowly, small portfolio holders, the late comers, the stupids, like me, not so much. (poor, poor me)
Were it not true that the Kings paid more than lip service to advocating for the entire industry, an inkling above self-interest.
I didn’t bother reading any of what’s been going on at NP with that, but it all just makes me want to look up Ms. Kate Buckley down the road for possible future brokering of some of my domains. 🙂
Sorry, however, but I think the NP letter quoted here is actually pretty good.
Some random thoughts: the guy’s post may be genuine libel, but who decides that? For instance, is it possible Ron Jackson was deceived? Personally, I doubt it very much, but anything is possible, especially these days. Why does anyone think the “establishment” on both sides of the “aisle” has been doing what it’s been doing to Julian Assange all these years for instance, preferably even hoping and trying to cause him to just die from poor health and go away.
Oops – I did it. I made an accusation without having full “epistemological certainty,” and stated it in the form of an assertion despite it ultimately being an opinion: i.e., the “establishment” has been trying to literally kill Julian Assange by causing his death in a way that does not appear to be conventional “murder,” among all the other things they have been doing regarding him that is.
Each case is different. It is absolutely *not* good to expect or require that opinions never be stated as assertions, however. In context, it is and should generally be clear when a statement presented in the form of an assertion is ultimately at the most basic level really just a statement of opinion. For example, I referred to someone as a “troll” here unequivocally just the other day: https : // onlinedomain . com/2019/11/16/domain-name-news/ica-asks-icann-to-stop-the-org-registry-sale/#comment-411380. Obviously, however, that is ultimately my “opinion” despite the initial form of the remark.
Notwithstanding the above, it is nonetheless also my *opinion* that it is absolutely *deplorable,* reckless and irresponsible – and a public disservice – how the OP entitled his original post (yes, just went over there to look while working on this reply here). In *that context,* the OP is clearly making what amounts to a factual assertion/accusation in the title, not good, not “fair” or “reasonable” according any notion of reasonableness and concern for everyone involved. In my opinion. He should have at least, for example, added a question mark or some other clear indication of the absence of factual certainty for what any normal person would infer to be a serious and consequential factual claim on the surface – in my opinion.
On a side note, normally I support the opinions of the king here with only rare exceptions, by the way, but just recently I held a very bad *opinion* of one of his remarks, the stuff about three word domains. But perhaps another time. 😉
And just in case anyone is not familiar with the reference to Julian Assange, I’m talking about this Julian Assange:
Don’t let me down, Raymond. Let me have the last one not only approved, but approved with the full video image embed. Nothing less than the free world is at stake. In my opinion. Thanks. 🙂
Oh thanks, Ray. Love it. 🙂
they should call themselves name amateurs. while there are a few pros that consistently post there… the site is primarily
filled with newbies, wannabes, trolls, and the consistently inept.
In My HIGHLY VALUED Opinion and base from my 200 years of Yogi life experiences, this discussion is totally waste of time and as usual all websites are totally “BullS”.
Now, go out and play and grow something in the garden. Go out and breath some fresh air!! Be Careful not to step on the damn dog poop.
What does it matter, don’t all the tier 1 domainers use domain board, and not namepros, I don’t think most people commenting here even use namepros, other than they have a one off issue to gripe about?
The situation is horrible and that whole thread should just be Deleted, like it never was written as it seems baseless.
No, domain boardroom does not have 1/1000 the membership or posts as np. Not even close.
tier 1 domainers
If the same post was made about NamePros, we would not have edited it or deleted it, and we wouldn’t have wanted any of those things to happen to it. We would have responded publicly to it like Kate did, which we have a long history of doing with similar threads about NamePros. In our experience, if you try to do anything else like delete it, then that can instigate more posts about it including new topics such as “scandal” and “cover up”. Above all else, online users tend to value transparency.
MapleDots – You know very well why we use Mod Team accounts, and while your family may be in a safe neighborhood and you feel protected enough to use your identity while being a forum moderator, that does not mean everyone is in your same situation and some of us have young children to think about and protect (Without the safeguards of a neighborhood watch), and that is far more important. Read more on that here: https://www.namepros.com/threads/why-are-there-mod-team-accounts.1156861/
Lastly, our response on this is nothing new and wasn’t really necessary since it’s already been established many times over the years. We have not said anything new in this situation. Our practices on this are well established, including how we deal with it ourselves. We sent her a message as a professional courtesy because we know it’s a frustrating experience and we empathize with it from dealing with it ourselves. We shared our message with the community for anyone who isn’t familiar with NamePros.
Exactly I was going to ask him when is he switching to his real name on Namepros instead.
I am curious mod did you see this? https://twitter.com/andrewrosener/status/1194551752449765379
Rosener talks about how he tried to kill Namepros?
It’s a Tarpit of trolls and ignorance with not a single successful domainer among its regular ranks.
Let us not forget the owner is also anonymous!
Other namepros members revealed offthehandle’s name and namepros founder RJ had this said to him
Andrew Rosener
@andrewrosener
·
Nov 14
It removes libelous content and blocks users who spread malicious and ill willed posts. What a stupid Fucking question! Why don’t I kill you? What have you done for me? LOL. The medium matters!
What action is namepros taking?
That’s not cool those comments. Where R the Namepros nancies?
The tweet where Andrew Rosener condones doxxing (if you can pay to get the private info) and where Andrew Rosener talks about killing RJ:
https://twitter.com/andrewrosener/status/1194890302672310273
https://twitter.com/1904alvarez/status/1194665835350020096
With times like this and remarks like that one should read something like this:
“Social Media Censorship Reaches New Heights As Twitter Permanently Bans Dissent”
zerohedge . com/political/social-media-censorship-reaches-new-heights-twitter-permanently-bans-dissent
You have ‘PROS’ whom you support that have gone around and threatening the same thing, physical harm, even giving a date! Asking if the WHOIS was correct, so they could visit, and they would be there on the ‘5th’ to ‘FIGHT’. GIVE Me a break = hypocrite! YOU SUPPORT him with the PRO tag when PROVIDED WITH EVIDENCE. IGNORANCE IS BLISS, AINT IT?
You’re welcome for my relative commendation of the NP letter.
Maybe I am getting old, grumpy and tired or older and wiser but the battle to tell a privately owned business how they should operate.moderate is a losing battle and frankly if you don’t like it, don’t use it. My goodness you would think NP’s was helping Russia fix the 2020 election. What’s next bring Eric before congress to testify if a random troll said an untruth and they didn’t remove it? If the basis for individuals to use ANY forum of discussion is only reading absolute facts than I suppose no one here uses facebook, twitter etc etc etc
That said I supported Katie’s defense of herself and praised her for her work, she had every right to want to do it.
Now it’s 3 p.m. and I need my nap
if your domain is stolen , fraudulently transferred , registrar bug etc, and and You need help in raising awareness, putting pressure @ registrar to solve the issue, the NPs members don’t hesitate to help you. The NPs members even willing to go the extra mile, turning the internet upside dow, searching for a missing dots, Hey! For Free. But, there’s also people who reported stolen names with a specific-purpose “agenda” . Yes, it happens.