Registrars are still marking up our domains without authority of any legal right to do so.
So two years ago I wrote about a topic that had bothered me for years and Andrew at DNW had brought it up in a post and that got me to finally take the time to address the situation.
Many if not most domainers add their names to Sedo and Afternic who in turn work with their distribution networks to make those names available for sale at their registrar parteners. This can be fast transfer or manual transfer.
Some registrars decide to mark up the buy it now price you set on your domain name. These registrars share in the commission with Afternic or Sedo so they are not working for free. Some have and continue to mark up another 15%.
This is not cool and as someone told me last night they are contemplating legal action and will look to seek class action status if they go in that direction.
Unlike most of the sneaky horseshit in a lot of agreements most don’t even know they agree to just by opening an account or logging in, neither Sedo or Afternic make their customers aware of this practice. It’s not something you have agreed to.
SedoMLS Premium Terms of Use
Promoting domains on the SedoMLS Premium sales network lets you sell your domains much faster by getting instant exposure to thousands of new potential buyers! By activating your domains for SedoMLS Premium you agree to the following special Terms & Conditions:
- A 20% commission fee applies if your domain is sold on the SedoMLS Premium partner network. Domains listed within SedoMLS Premium are charged the regular 15% commission if sold on Sedo’s standard marketplace. Minimum commissions may apply.
- You agree that after Sedo receives payment from the buyer your domain will be instantly transferred to the new owner and removed from your registrar account, without any further approval.
Now let’s look at the poor customer experience, hypothetical startup wanting to acquire Already.com.
Hello boss, I know you said we had a $200,000 budget, but it seems already.com is priced at $230,000.
What kind of idiot are you Johnson? It’s $200,000!
That’s right Name.com is looking to pocket $30,000 and then share the 20% commission with Sedo on the $200,000.
Within Sedo’s network it does not matter if you agree to fast transfer, some registrars that are partners at basic level promotion still mark up 15%.
So take a name of mine DNProtect.com, listed at Sedo basic promotion for $1,111. The domain is registered with GoDaddy so not eligible for Sedo MLS.
Again we see Name.com taking 15% and Dynadot not taking 15%. Not to single out Name.com, Epik also marked this name up 15% while NameSilo did not and kept my price of $1,111.
Now here is another name of mine, it’s Sedo MLS active and registered at Epik. Listed at $2,888. Epik will not mark this one up because it’s registered there.
But Name.com is right there again marking up my product, basically changing the price I set for my property.
So now let’s take a look at a name I own at Afternic and not listed on Sedo. Start-ups.org listed at $999. Registered at Name.com.
So unlike Epik, Name.com is still marking my price up even though it’s registered with them, so at least Epik doesn’t do that when you are registered there. Enom you see also with the mark up and Dynadot no mark up.
When you add a domain to Afternic you get an email,
Thank you for choosing GoDaddy as your Afternic Premium Network registrar.
Before your domain name(s) can be listed for sale on GoDaddy and other Afternic resellers, you must authorize your participation in the Afternic program. Please click the button below to log in and authorize.
When you click that button to authorize they should make it known they are adding a markup and if you wish to participate.
Andrew got a comment from Afternic Chief Revenue Officer Bob Mountain two years ago:
Select partners are testing markups on Afternic domain names. There hasn’t been a fundamental shift, we’re just working with some of our partners at their request. If you would like to have your names removed from being listed at these markup resellers, please contact Afternic customer service.
Why do we have to contact them? I also want to say before any fanbois jump in, “Oh I am happy to pay whatever these companies are allowing me to spend my days sitting on a beach sipping Mai Tai’s” Congratufuckinglations, that still gives no registrar the right to add a kicker for themselves without the owner even knowing it about it, let alone sharing in the increased price. If that’s cool then maybe all the people so upset by people selling domains they don’t own should get on board with that too.
I want to make clear there are several registrars doing this not just the one’s I mentioned.
Nice job, now that was an eye opener. How can they justify this?
No ethics
It’s a disgrace and needs to stop. Imagine if it were your house and some real estate agent added 15% to the price…
Raymond – Here’s the deal:
The MLS listings are rife with fraud. There are people who list domains with a MLS and then turn around and buy their own domains with a stolen or unauthorized credit card in some marketplace. They then get cashed out by Afternic, and the registrar who sold that domain is the merchant of record gets left holding the drippy bag. This is 100% fact and I wish I could say it is infrequent. It has been rampant on Sedo. It is less common on Afternic but there are inventory problems there too where people routinely gets offers on domains they don’t own. This stuff is hard to police and the problem is getting worse.
So, by default, Epik marks up domains from MLS by 15%. Known customers with portfolios at Epik can get this reduced to zero. They can also have their buying authorizations increased to very high amounts so that they can sell a domain on Epik and then turn around and buy MLS domains with zero markup using the proceeds from their domain sale. This is the main reason why we are still supporting MLS listings — because we have known customers who like that exact features.
I believe the single best combination is this:
1. List your domains with Epik and use our very high performing SSL landers, like this one:
https://laptopcomputers.com/
I recommend doing it as “Make Offer” so you can see all the inquiries and get “sky is the limit” scenarios through negotiation of sale or lease.
2. List the domains with BIN pricing in any marketplace that will have you.
That is the best of both worlds.
Most established domain investors can be approved to do this at Epik using domains that are not registered at Epik. We can also approve folks for a variety of other useful features like Domain Tasting and $8.49 .COM backorders.
In the meantime, have a little respect and sympathy for the folks who are giving domain listings visible in their domains search work processes. It is a double-edged sword and not without cost or risk as too many people naively imagine. The credit card processing fees alone are a hard cost but the fraud risk is what really has to be taken into consideration.
Rob I help plenty of people/companies in this business for free who have deeper pockets than myself. So I have sympathy for people in the biz. But this is wrong on a lot of levels.
Look at the example I gave on already.com, Name.com would be getting a commission of what 10% on the $200,000? But they need another $30,000 and I will tell you the seller has no idea, he is not a domainer and links his photo collage site, (that’s what already.com is, to DomainHoldings).
I can tell you there are people in this business 15 years that did not know this was going on, I remember telling Vito from Media Branding a month ago and he was like what? The person last night who wants to talk to his lawyer brother, been in the biz close to 20 years, never knew this was going on, because most people don’t look up their own names on a registrar let alone 100.
And how about Jonny newcomer, he sees no mention of this when he opens his Sedo or Afternic account, list with a buy it now Jonny sell 3x faster, Oh did we mention Name.com and 30 other registrars will mark your name up but Dynadot, NameSilo and 30 others won’t? You don’t think Jonny lost by that point?
Bottom line no one has the right to mark up someone else’s property without them even knowing it. It’s kind of like opt in vs opt out in email. The law is people have to opt in, not that you can spam the hell out of them and then say, “Oh you can always opt out”
Raymond –
There is an easy solution:
– The markup on your personal Epik account is now set to zero. Others can request this too. If they are known folks, and/or have domains at Epik, we’ll be happy to accommodate.
– Just add your domains in the Epik marketplace for FREE. All the inquiries come directly to you for FREE.
Problem solved.
As for those who assert there is some malfeasance, no, that is nonsense. Does your grocery store sell you avocados for the same price they got it for from the farmer or wholesaler? Of course not.
Case closed.
Oh mine was zero and I credited you for that in the article, I keep thinking just to remove names I have at Epik because I use the marketplace there too and some might have different prices. Your landers are way better.
Thanks Raymond.
And the landers are free even for people who hold their domains elsewhere. And I bet you noticed that we are still disclosing full contact details from any inquiry. Most marketplaces and lander providers obscure all of that as a way of forcing you to sell through them. We do not.
Anyway, glad you are liking Epik and for those who want the best of Epik, just create an account and introduce yourself. Our prices are among the lowest in the industry because we are efficient, and because we work hard to root out fraud. Unfortunately, MLS is a fraud fest which is why I believe domain marketplaces and domain escrows should be registrars.
RE: “Does your grocery store sell you avocados for the same price they got it for from the farmer or wholesaler? Of course not.” Avocados are a commodity and a grocer is a retailer not an “Agent” selling real estate that he DOES NOT OWN. A Real Estate Agent has a 6% commission. And that is split between the buyer and the seller agents each getting 3%. A domain broker gets 10% commission. The worst part is surprising the end user. If you are going to double dip and take a commission from sale AND mark-up the sale price that has to be presented to the buyer as the price.
“Does your grocery store sell you avocados for the same price they got it for from the farmer or wholesaler? Of course not.”
Rob — the critical difference is that when folks buy avocados (or any other product), they know in advance that the product has been marked up; and avocado sellers also know their avocados are going to be marked up.
As Raymond demonstrates above, the large majority of domain sellers and buyers have / had no idea such marking up was going on; because the sale platforms aren’t telling their clients.
That’s just plain wrong.
Great work Raymond
Let me know when the class action lawsuit kicks in. Ready to take on these cocksuckers.
i think they had our permission when we click yes to the terms and conditions..
ph
Wrong, 100% wrong, here is what you agree too when adding names on Sedo:
SedoMLS Premium Terms of Use
Promoting domains on the SedoMLS Premium sales network lets you sell your domains much faster by getting instant exposure to thousands of new potential buyers! By activating your domains for SedoMLS Premium you agree to the following special Terms & Conditions:
A 20% commission fee applies if your domain is sold on the SedoMLS Premium partner network. Domains listed within SedoMLS Premium are charged the regular 15% commission if sold on Sedo’s standard marketplace. Minimum commissions may apply.
You agree that after Sedo receives payment from the buyer your domain will be instantly transferred to the new owner and removed from your registrar account, without any further approval.
No mention in the longer marketplace agreement https://sedo.com/us/about-us/policies/domain-marketplace-agreement/
I double checked too, no mention, this might become a legal matter.
I have known about this for awhile, and brought it up to Afternic/GoDaddy years ago. I am not happy with my domains being arbitrarily re-priced by 3rd parties.
That is not what I agreed to and I wish there was a way to opt-out of these specific partners.
The transfer partners already have some revenue sharing agreement with Afternic obviously, so it is just in excess greed that the price is marked up above that.
Rob can say whatever he wants to justify it. The bottom line is he is in the small minority here.
Somehow 95% of the registrars in the program have no problem asking the same price you ask on Afternic, but poor little Epik needs a way to justify their greed.
Brad
Hey Brad — Did you miss that Epik was the only one example listed that Raymond reported did it in the right way. His name was listed with no markup. So, please feel free to recant the ad hominem.
As for my comment, I have presented logic and also presented Epik-specific remedies that cost nothing and bring upside. You, on the other hand, have wagged your tongue and wiggled your finger.
There is nothing illegal about marketplaces marking up for their efforts. There is an opportunity cost and a direct cost associated with processing external domain sales.
The 15% number on a typical $2K sale is nothing.
As for the guy who sells a $200K domain because of visibility in an external marketplace, there again, win-win. More than likely that is a consultative sale and escrow transaction.
Thankfully we have some logical commentary from John Berryhill to close this topic out.
First off all, we are all already being overcharged for domain sales on domain aftermarkets like Sedo and Afternic, then to add another 15% on top of that is RIDICULOUS!
Technology has made things faster and easier for domain registrars, most things are automated now, but we are still paying the same OLD domain aftermarket fees(15-30%)!?
Pass on the savings already! Maximum domain aftermarket fee should only be 10%, MAX!
It all comes down to this, it’s OUR domain name and the price we list the domain for, should be the ONLY price that the domain is listed for! No gross markup by third party registrars! It’s not your domain name!
Simple as that.
I’m going to give the Epik.com landers a try…
I am going to take a few hundred names I have listed at
https://www.afternic.com/BELLOHIO
and see how things go…
I’ve heard GOOD things about EPIK
“Bottom line no one has the right to mark up someone else’s property without them even knowing it.”
While I understand why sellers would find this annoying, I’d be interested to know why people think there is something legally actionable about it.
The “that pisses me off, so it’s illegal” principle is not a reliable guide to what is legal and what isn’t.
A group of competitors deciding to fix prices on what they are going to charge for their services? Now that’s much more clearly illegal than an information sharing arrangement which doesn’t involve price fixing.
John, I did not say illegal because I am not a lawyer, I said someone who I spoke to who was outraged said they were going to discuss it with a family member who is a lawyer.
I value your opinion, do you think it’s a legal issue? I realize you can’t give a full binding legal opinion but you can say if you think it’s completely baseless.
I know you have to prove how you were damaged and there might be something there especially in the hypothetical I posed with already.com. A company has a budget if their favorite registrar was how they checked the pricing and saw $230,000 and they moved on to another name, I realize that’s probably close to impossible to prove you would have gotten a sale in a court of law, but have their rights not been hindered in some way? Especially considering they are not a domain investor and I am willing to bet have no idea another registrar is selling their name higher than what they listed it on Sedo.
“I value your opinion, do you think it’s a legal issue?”
Just because I can’t think of one is certainly not the final word on any and all possible theories. I’m much more limited in general commercial matters than IP. That said, this strikes me as falling into the category of stuff likely to piss someone off, but really not as much of an issue as price fixing would be.
I can walk into two independently owned Chevy dealers, spec out the identical vehicle, and get two different prices. Maybe if I only went to one, and they were the higher priced one, I go and by a Volkswagen instead.
I’ve come across this a while back in the context of a UDRP in which a complainant was attributing a marked up price to the seller. That said, it didn’t make a whole world of difference anyway, but I’m hard pressed to see how one gets to control the price that someone else charges. Look at registration services themselves. Verisign is doing the same thing whether a registrar charges $10 or $20 to register a .com.
The “I would have made a sale, but for the markup” argument is a double edged sword. The person visiting that website wouldn’t have known the domain was for sale if it wasn’t listed for sale there through the syndicated listing.
Are you going to offset the hypothetical “sales I would have made” against the actual sales you DO make through syndicated listings. They aren’t making those hypothetical lost sales either, so aren’t they already being penalized? It’s not as if you are losing sales and they are profiting from it.
But, would you be okay if a registrar offers your domain name at LESS than your price and, for whatever reason, eats the difference? Let’s say that Rob decides to offer a 10% discount to Nazis, because he wants their business. Can he do that? Sure, why not. A registrar might offer discounts to members of AARP, Delta Skymiles, Hilton Honors, the KKK, the Girl Scouts, whatever.
Or, let’s say that someone saw your name on sale at your stated price at Epik, and decided that they would never buy that domain name because the 10% Nazi discount rubs them the wrong way. Well, there you are losing a sale for reasons that have nothing at all to do with the price, really. Is that actionable too? In addition to price, what else do you get to control, merely because you have stated that you will accept a net to you of $X?
I’m not saying there’s no issue here. But I am saying I don’t see one. The argument “it’s not in the terms” doesn’t move me, since it’s not forbidden by them either. What really matters are the terms of registrar participation in the multi listing system, and not the end user terms.
So, let’s say that SedoMLS required uniform pricing, and registrars drop the program because they would rather focus on getting their full commission from their own listings, instead of splitting that commission with Sedo. The end result is that you STILL aren’t going to make sales through those registrars who dropped the program because they can’t control their own margin.
You can’t require registrars to participate in the program in the first place, so the argument that you are losing sales by having them markup the names – if they wouldn’t participate otherwise – doesn’t get you anywhere. You might not get sale with the markup, but you certainly won’t get sales if they drop the program.
So, let’s say you win and registrars can’t markup names in MLS. The registrars then decide not to participate in the MLS if they can’t. What is it you won?
But I’m certainly open to being persuaded otherwise.
First off thank you for the time you put into that reply. I get what you are saying about the different dealerships or Verisign, as a customer I have choice, to get the better deal or go with who sells my product how I want to sell my product like in the car dealership example from the manufacturers side.
So let’s say I am a waiter at the new hot spot in Delaware, Berryhill Grill. I believe I am a better waiter, so even though you Mr. Berryhill the owner of the restaurant set the pricing, $20 for the grilled salmon with mango chutney as an example. I mark that up to $24 when I present the customer with the check but I enter the proper prices into the system at the end of the night, I pocket my markups on the total bill say maybe $10 to $15 per table.
I don’t think when you found out about that, you would be happy, I never said to you I was going to mark up your food, I just did it, because I am the best waiter you have in my opinion. My time and effort is worth more.
I don’t understand how the terms don’t matter between Sedo and Afternic with the domain owner, their client. But it does matter what they colluded, whoops excuse me, agreed to in their private dealings. But again I am not an expert in contract law and nor do I profess to be.
I would think at a minimum John they should at least let you know, “Hey some of our distribution partners will mark up your name for their own benefit”
Because it’s telling to me what Bob Mountain said two years ago,
Select partners are testing markups on Afternic domain names. There hasn’t been a fundamental shift, we’re just working with some of our partners at their request. If you would like to have your names removed from being listed at these markup resellers, please contact Afternic customer service.
That’s telling to me John, I see that as a business that’s saying we will let the uninformed consumer get the short end of the stick, but if it’s someone who knows what’s going on, and could stir up a hornets nest, we will remove their names from the markup.
I was in Hawaii in 1990 and in the hotel lobby I went into a clothing store, I looked at a sweatsuit, I saw the price it was $200, a Japanese gentleman was standing next to me and he picked up the same sweatsuit, he goes on to purchase it, I am behind him in line, I was getting a tshirt, I hear the person at the cash register say, “That will be $1,000” He paid it, 10 $100 bills. I was like what the heck? I said to the person behind the counter, “Wasn’t that sweatsuit $200?” He said yeah but the Japanese just throw money around when they come here, they don’t even look at the price tag, so we mark them up. If they catch it, we apologize and give them the correct price.”
That’s kind of what I feel is happening when there is a markup but someone says if you don’t want it, just opt out.
This markup is concerning and of course stifles sales (already.com is a great example by the way). From a couple of years back the practice lowered my opinion of Name.com
As for ethics – what of buy-side brokerage conflicts of interest? Will Epik or Afternic Agent or Uni’s domain buy service collect their fee and represent a buyer against a seller they also represent? Uni’s FAQ seems to say yes: they represent the buyer confidentially, negotiate the best price possible, and the buyer commission will be less “if we have a prior commitment to represent the seller, the commission may be split or paid by the seller.” Will they work against their own seller’s interests?
This is unethical on so many levels! It’s obviously meant to be deceptive otherwise they would have been strait forward about the additional price increases. Not being fully transparent I would assume would also make them liable for “skimming” as the terms clearly state “XX % of final sales price.” Selling the domain for $230,000 and then paying you based on a $200,000 dollar sale price means they shorted you as a seller for $30,000 of the “final sales price” and did not disclose that fact. Plus, I would assume they could also be liable for any lost sales due to the undisclosed markup or failed negotiations in situations where the additional markup contributed to a failed price agreement and final sale.
This whole situation needs to be made public and taken to prosecutors for further investigations in my opinion.
Any registrar as the reseller (MLS/AF/KS etc), can determine the price (markup) they will charge for the “service” (the linear logic e.g. transportation-in cost). They can tell you whatever the reason/cover up is … it’s just premium dating service.
If Afternic/GoDaddy is going to allow this, then they need to allow sellers a way to opt-out.
I am not interested in doing business with registrars like Name.com, Epik, and any others that might be doing this.
Brad
If there is a consensus that the Registrars and Marketplaces can add 15% to the sellers chosen “Buy Now” price in order to recoup their loss due to fraud, then there has to be a full disclosure of this action somehow. Adding the 15% might not be wrong, but continuing to keep it hidden from both the Seller and the Buyer is. IMO
Also this money should not be looked at as profit, but should be used only to recoup losses and to prevent fraud in the domain Industry at large and as such a centralized authority should collect, dispense, and manage this money. And if all Registrars and Marketplaces are going to participate in doing this then it should be lowered to 5% max. IMO
You did good work here Raymond this is an important topic. Thank you very much
Please put my name down for the class action lawsuit. Make me the lead plaintiff.
Thanks for bringing this up. We have not hidden it as far as I know but it is always good to have more awareness. I do know we spell this out in our terms of service on Afternic that you agree to in order to list your domains.
Our rationale for doing this on the small % of partners who mark the domains up is to opt the domain seller in to selling as many domains as we can by getting the broadest distribution possible. That is the default position because we believe it benefits the customers most by selling more of their domains. However, if you do not agree with that you can email service@afternic.com and they can opt your domains out of being listed at the partners who mark up the domain names.
Selling domains is competitive and having your domains show up for sale on the various partner sites costs money. For some partners the juice isn’t worth the squeeze without the additional mark up. I will not discuss any specific financial arrangements but think along the lines of a partner who has other partners or resellers or sub accounts and all of them need a revenue split. The more ways the commission is split maybe it is not enough left to pay for the dev work, the anti-fraud teams, etc that go into it to make it worthwhile to show your domain for sale. No business wants to operate at a loss and while it may seem like the commission is high on the outside, there are real costs associated with displaying and selling the domains.
The landscape continues to become more competitive as more and more domains come online with marketing budgets etc. A reseller may decide it is not in their business’ best interest to show your domain for sale and they would be better off displaying other TLD options or spins with alternate words etc. That is their prerogative as a business owner.
Domain Investors are business owners as well. There are many options when listing a domain for sale, each have their own costs and cost/benefit considerations. You are free to list your names however you like. Our philosophy is to try our hardest to get your domains in front of the most people who want to buy it. Part of our philosophy is also working towards continually reducing friction points in the listing, selling, fulfillment, and payment process. If you choose to list with us we are by default going to try and list your domain in as many places as possible to get you the most potential sales. We also understand many people are against any kind of commission mark up from any partners which is why we allow anyone to email in and opt out for their account. Bear in mind only the Afternic inventory will be affected and if the reseller accepts other premium domain feeds containing your names they could continue to show up on those sites.
Again, thank you for bringing this up again. I hope this helps to better explain the rationale behind it.
Thanks Joe I see nothing about the markup
FAST TRANSFER TERMS OF SERVICE FOR AFTERNIC SELLERS
By offering one or more domain names that seller owns for sale via Fast Transfer (each, a “Listed Domain”), seller signifies its agreement to the applicable Fast Transfer Terms of Service in addition to our Membership Agreement, available at: http://www.afternic.com/agreement.php, and incorporated herein by reference.
Please review these terms carefully. Some Fast Transfers are e-commerce only, without sales assistance or guidance, and these terms contain important rights and responsibilities for Afternic sellers who use Fast Transfer. To the extent that these terms of service conflict with our Membership Agreement, the conflicting terms here shall supersede the Membership Agreement but only with respect to Fast Transfers and only to the extent of such conflict.
A. Prerequisites to Use Fast Transfer Process
Seller must be an Afternic member. The terms of the Afternic Membership Agreement apply to all Fast Transfer transactions. To become a member, and participate in Fast Transfer, seller must join Afternic. The new user registration page is available at: https://www.afternic.com/join.php.
Seller must enroll in the Afternic DLS Premium Promotion service. For information on enrolling, go to the DLS Premium Promotion page. Specific terms related to Fast Transfer may be found at that internet address. Seller must enroll and accept the terms before seller can sell a Listed Domain via Fast Transfer.
Seller must register each Listed Domain with one of our Fast Transfer partners or, seller may transfer the Listed Domain to one of our Fast Transfer partners now. It must be registered with an Fast Transfer partner before seller is permitted to list a domain under the Fast Transfer process. A list of Fast Transfer partners is available at: DLS Premium Promotion page.
Seller must provide Afternic a Buy Now Price. Fast Transfer is primarily an e-commerce transaction, and may not involve the assistance of a salesperson. Seller must provide Afternic pricing information in advance. If seller does not supply a Buy Now Price and a Minimum Offer, the posting will either fail, or seller will experience a delay in having a Listed Domain posted for sale. Seller’s name may be listed only after seller has provided Afternic a Buy Now Price and Afternic has taken reasonable steps to ensure the validity of the Listed Name.
Seller must provide Afternic prompt notice. Until seller notifies Afternic that a seller has sold the Listed Name(s) outside the scope of the Fast Transfer partners and/or process, Afternic and its Fast Transfer partners shall retain the right to sell the seller’s Listed Name(s) until seller confirms that Afternic is in receipt of seller’s notification.
B. Additional Fast Transfer Terms and Conditions for Sellers
Seller acknowledges and agrees that Afternic has the right to verify any proposed Listed Domain sale transaction or the underlying registration of such Listed Domain. Verification may delay the posting of a Listed Domain. Afternic, as a regular practice, will verify all proposed Listed Domains with a listing price of $10,000 USD or more. By posting a Listed Domain with a Sale Price equal to or exceeding $10,000 USD, seller agrees that a reasonable verification delay may occur.
Afternic reserves the right to withhold from posting a Listed Domain for any reason.
Seller specifically authorizes and directs Afternic to sell a Listed Domain for the Buy Now Price at any time.
Seller makes the following representations and warranties to Afternic:
Seller represents and warrants that it is in fact the legal registrant and owner of each of its Listed Names, each free and clear of any encumbrances, liens of any nature, including third party intellectual property claims or registration fees due the Transferring Registrar (other than those created by the applicable registration agreement) (“Liens”);
Seller hereby authorizes and legally empowers Afternic to offer each Listed Name for sale via Fast Transfer, and upon completion of the sale, seller shall pass good and marketable title to buyer free and clear of any Liens;
each Sold Domain shall be immediately transferable from the Transferring Registrar, without restriction; and
Seller has no actual knowledge that any Listed Domain is the subject of an intellectual property claim of any third party.
Seller acknowledges that Afternic is relying upon these representations in offering the Listed Domain for sale via Fast Transfer.
Seller is prohibited from rejecting/cancelling a completed sale to a buyer once a buyer commits to the purchase of a Listed Domain by clicking the ‘confirmation’ button on the Afternic, BuyDomains or Reseller/Partner site.
Seller may change the Buy Now Price at any time; provided however, seller understands and agrees that by changing the Buy Now Price, the Listed Domain(s) is subject to a new valuation by Afternic. In addition, due to the nature of e-commerce and the internet, Afternic is unable to guarantee that any change to the Buy Now Price shall be published on Afternic and its reseller sites before an offer is received. Seller is obligated to complete a transaction with a confirmed buyer for the posted price even if seller tried to increase the Buy Now Price prior to the time of the purchase.
Seller understands and agrees that the Listed Domain may, at Afternic’s discretion, be made available to Afternic’s Fast Transfer reseller partners. Afternic does not warrant or guarantee that a specific Listed Domain will be displayed or offered for sale by a particular Reseller Partner.
Seller shall pay Afternic the applicable commission according to the fee schedule available at http://www.AFTERNIC.COM/fees.php. Sales are not final until seven (7) days after the transaction has been completed.
Seller specifically authorizes and directs Afternic to act as its Designated Agent when a Listed Domain sells. As Designated Agent, Afternic will facilitate the transfer and change of domain name contact information for the Sold Domain. As such, Seller grants Afternic the power to explicitly consent to the material change of registrant contact information in order to facilitate immediate transfer of the Sold Domain.
Buyer specifically authorizes and directs Afternic to act as its Designated Agent. As Designated Agent, Afternic will facilitate the transfer and change of domain name contact information for the Purchased Domain. As such, Buyer grants Afternic the power to explicitly consent to the material change of registrant contact information to facilitate immediate transfer of the Purchased Domain.
Secondly Brad Mugford posted on Namepros
I talked to my account executive @ GoDaddy about this specific issue yesterday regarding Afternic listings and was told that he was not aware of a way you could manually opt out of specific registrars.
If that is not true, I would like someone from GoDaddy to correct this as I would like to opt-out of registrars that do this.
Brad
Joe I think the thing is that people don’t know, if they knew it would be one thing, also it’s not sensible like the example I pointed out in the post with Already.com.
Also let’s look at it this way, in the domain community every poll ever held at Namepros Dynadot kicks Name.coms butt votes wise, so how would a domainer understand Dynadot doesn’t markup but an inferior registrar in the minds of many domainers marksup my name?
It is not in the fast transfer agreement. It is in the membership agreement which is under the legal link on the bottom of Afternic.com and covers using Afternic in general in any way. The fast transfer terms are specific to the fast transfer the way I read them. But I am no lawyer so take what I say with a grain of salt and interpret them with your own legal counsel. 🙂
Here is the specifc wording from that agreement that references this:
You understand that certain reseller distribution partners may, upon approval by the Company and at Company’s sole discretion, add a markup to the sale price of your domain name and that the reseller distribution partner may keep this markup in its entirety, and that you will receive no payment for the portion of the sales price that is marked up.
As far as the Premier Services rep not knowing about the opt out. They should have. I apologize for that to Brad. I would say that while GoDaddy owns Afternic, they are separate companies with different employees at the sales and service level and I’m confident that contacting Afternic directly would have resulted in a better answer as far as opting out of an Afternic service. That being said, the agent should have known or asked more questions. We have offered a way to opt out for years as your quote from Bob Mountain a couple years back also references.
“while GoDaddy owns Afternic”
@Joe—when is GD going to make the dashboard at Afternic more user friendly and why don’t the word Afternic be changed to GODADDy COMPLETELY–more reputable and I bet there will be more sales WHEN people see the word GODADDY.
I brought this up before Bulls, GoDaddy will keep Afternic because their competitors don’t want to be seen working for or with GoDaddy, I said that to Joe about a year ago it would be great to just use GoDaddy most people don’t know Afternic.
We need to add pressure to them
Hey we are the customers and they need to listen to US!!
without our domains and my high value PRIME domains, they are nothing, they will be non existent
Ok so my above comment about this being allowed (becuase i know its been going on for years) was probably in the terms and Conditions, was an assumption. And kuddos and thank to Ray for actually looking up the sedo terms and not seeing it.
So wow, yes should be in terms. Now with afternic and godaddy, lets go over this again.
Its not in the listing agreement but it is in the afternic terms.
At different times you integrate everything together (for our benefit), can you explain the different agreements again.
We are the easiest to contact person about the domain name and it does put me at a disadvantage when a buyer says how come its listed at different prices, i just say buy where its the lowest if you want to use the fast transfer.
So are we at Afternic has it in, but sedo doesnt? or isnt paying us on the sales price as mentioned. Great thread!
Well Page tonight I did some more digging, it’s interesting what Joe Styler said. When Afternic updates the membership agreement they put the date it was updated, when this first came up 2 years ago, no Joe Styler, GoDaddy whoever it was not in membership agreement.
What these sneaky people did was change that and add what Joe Styler published in August of 2018 but when you look at June of 2018 it was not in there, Afternic updated the terms of the agreement but did not alter the date, thankfully there is archive.org
This is all it says in the 6232018 snapshot on archive.org
You may not place any bids or offers to purchase the domain name that you have listed for sale, either under your own name, an alias, or any entity in which you maintain a controlling interest.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180623050144/http://www.afternic.com/legal
August 12, 2018 it changed to what Joe Styler wrote above. https://web.archive.org/web/20180812020515/https://www.afternic.com/legal
But here is the interesting thing when you check those links,
Membership Agreement
Updated on May 12, 2016
ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS THROUGH USE
Certainly looks like it was updated 8/12/2018
Everything should be Transparent and Clearly explained on All Platforms. If Registrars need to recoup their losses due to fraud then lets allow a reasonable percentage for that, if resellers need to be motivated to participate then lets allow a certain percentage for that too, but lets be open about it and let’s do it in a reasonable way that doesn’t create suspicions for the end-users and that won’t scare them away by making sure that the price ends up being the same across the whole network. IMO
If we send this email to Afternic asking for our listings not to be listed at the resellers who mark up our prices. Of course we are aware that this will reduce the number of sales. But we have no idea of how much it will affect our sales. If 100% of their resellers are marking up the prices, then we would know to stop using Afternic’s service. If it’s only 5% of their resellers, it’s at least better, but we still won’t know how effective this 5% are in total.
I personally strongly dislike the idea of resellers marking up my prices without my permission and not sharing some of this windfall with the actual seller. It’s not the way I want to do business. Even if it ends up with less sales. So I will definitely be emailing Afternic. Thankfully, I don’t use Sedo. But it would be nice to know, in round park percentages, how much are revenues are likely to drop. Or at least a list of the resellers who will be dropped? So we have some idea what are the consequences of our actions.
Typical pieces of shit. I hope someone with money sues these motherfuckers