The domain name WI.com is currently at auction at Namejet.com.
The domain has a high bid of $500,000 with a stated reserve of $500,000-$600,000 and ends on March 15th 2017
A reader sent me a note today that WI.com had a UDRP filed against it in 2015 and wanted to make bidders aware of the UDRP.
The UDRP was bought by a trademark holder of the term WICOM.
Although the three member panel rejected the UDRP, they did find that the domain name WI.com was “identical to the Complainant’s trademark (WICOM) save for the dot and is confusingly similar to a trademark in which the Complainant has rights”, thereby satisfying the first of the three prongs required for a UDRP.
The three member panel went on to find that under the facts, the domain holder had a not acted in bad faith and had rights or legitimate interests in respect of the Domain Name.
I would suggest anyone interested in bidding on this domain should really read the opinion since the facts of the UDRP regarding the domain holder were unusual and would not be the same as to someone buying the domain in auction.
The three member panel spent some time in the opinion on the domain holder’s lack of notice of the trademark saying:
“Complainant and his trademark would not have featured in the domain holders deliberations at that time. Indeed, as indicated, the Panel accepts the domain holder’s assertion that it had not heard of the Complainant or his WICOM trade mark prior to receipt of the Complaint.
I would expect that a trademark holder might argue that the former UDRP is notice of an issue regarding the domain name.
I’m not telling anyone not to bid on the domain, but a bidder should seek the counsel of an attorney for an opinion based on the trademark and the previous UDRP especially if the domain is being acquired by a domain investor rather than an end-user.
The three member panel in the previous UDRP were:
Tony Willoughby
Hon Neil Brown Q.C.
Thomas Hoeren
The buyer/bidder should file a TM application NOW, not wait until they win, then at least they can show bona fide intent. I can guarantee a TM within 3 months with no previous use required.
First of all, this, my dear friend Michael, is a poorly researched and irresponsibly written article. Published at a conspicuous time.
The ONLY reason that the German company filed a UDRP in the first place is because an Indian domain investor was front running the domain, without any authority, and sent the Wicom trademark holder in Germany a threatening email that “if he didn’t buy the wi.com domain name, he would…”. I would have filed a UDRP too!
This front running business is a big problem in our industry and nobody is talking about it. All those low ball bids you get at SEDO…those are domain spammers who just want to get your fixed price counter offer so they can go out and front run your domain to end users without your permission.
Anyhow, there are absolutely no more grounds for any more concern than any other two letter .com or three letter .com for that matter. ALL of them have hundreds or even thousands of trademark holders for one product or service or the another.
Wi.com is the state abbreviation for Wisconsin. It is completely generic, more so than most two letters in fact.
The fact is, wi.com is a clean domain, with a successfully defended UDRP behind it. If someone were to do something really stupid and purposefully infringe on someone’s trademark with the domain then, yes, they could end up with another UDRP – NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER DOMAIN.
We would be more than happy to provide a purchase and sale contract or assignment agreement after the sale on Namejet concludes to transfer any rights and/or goodwill we may possess in the domain, to the new owner.
This article should be rescinded.
Thumbs up dude agree 100% except the damage is already done. Cannot take it back.
DUDE gets upset because he is outbid and crys and now he does an article like this.
IMO the true colors are finally shown.
What is incorrect ? Was there a UDRP filed ? I thought I remembered reading about this http://www.domaininvesting.com/udrps-filed-on-wi-com-and-iec-com/
Looks to me like this domain is basically worthless on the aftermarket, at this point. I sure wouldn’t want to be the person blowing half-a-million bucks on a domain that will probably get UDRP’d from me.
WOW, You said it Andrew Come one hiphop your bidding on this name then come out with that. That is not really you bidding is it.
What’s up brah you don’t have enough money already where you have to hurt other people.
In my opinion it takes 20 years to build a reputation and one stupid email to ruin trust for a lifetime. You just did it. You want to talk about some of your names. DUDE it so apparent that wi is for Wisconsin. Time to start following Rick S on twitter!
Wow. You must really dislike Drew . A half a million dollar auction getting ready to close and this gets published hours before closing. I consider you both friends but you two certainly won’t be now
I doubt Mike considers you a friend.
Domain,
You could be right but I’ve enjoyed our conversations over the years and look forward to talking to him when I get the chance. He’s given me great advice when I’ve asked. And I do look to him for advice on things several times a year. Judy, his wife, is a great person as well. So if you are right and its one sided then so be it. I’ve gotten plenty out of it.
You on the other hand don’t have the confidence in yourself to use your real name and add nothing to the conversation but noise.
This is a great article, and Elliot over at DomainInvesting.com had written a more general article on the topic:
http://www.domaininvesting.com/using-udrpsearch-com-to-assess-risk/
The WI.com purchase is a very risky purchase for any non-trademark holder, and they should have their attorney receive guarantees from the seller. In fact, those that would not request transparency in the domain community are the ones everyone should be wary of. Those bloggers that tackle the good, the bad and the ugly should be congratulated. This article will save Namejet and Media Options from a potential lawsuit down the road…
Yep, I wouldn’t pay even $5,000 for wi.com at this point. Who needs the legal problems?
that does not make any sense and you know it Striker
It should be pointed out that Michael Berkens, who wrote this article 24 hours before the auction closing, was also the 2nd highest bidder at the time of posting this article. Conflict of interest? Duh!!!
Berkens should have recused himself from commenting on an auction where he is clearly bidding to win ($455,000 bid). I can’t imagine a better way to kill the competition than scaring them away with a scare tactic article like this. #poorform
The UDRP for wi.com was summarily denied. There is no residual nausea whatsoever. I have been given multiple legal opinions for the same. It comes down to use. If you do something stupid, your fault. Just like any other uber generic domain which has hundreds or thousands of potential trademark conflicts (ALL two letter .com domains).
Anyone can file an unjustified UDRP against any domain for any reason. They will lose, just like the complainant who filed against us on wi.com. That has NO IMPACT on the value of the domain or its fitness. If anything it reinforces the inherent rights we have in such domains.
And as for Michael’s news source, WolfOfDomains.com? Really? We are going to start taking advice from idiots that call themselves the “Wolf of Domains”!!! John Rashad who? You call yourself a lawyer? Sounds like another troll. Turns out he emailed me a few days ago wanted to sell his “SUPER PREMIUM DOMAINS”: wicked.porn & nippon.porn – I could hardly contain myself. You picked the wrong dude to hate on John. You better pick a new industry. Perhaps Disney is hiring social media trolls, I heard they fired pewdiepie!
#FAKENEWS #hatersgonnahate
@Andrew
Without question, I’m a complete newbie to domain investing. And I’m learning so much everyday about all aspects of the industry. No hate whatsoever, but that’s ok that you use ad hominem attacks against someone who asked you a question about your domain sale. The UDRP is public knowledge, and I asked you publicly what you thought about it.
It’s interesting that a SUCH a big name in domaining would attack a newbie and attempt to belittle me for inquiring about the trademark law & UDRP policy in regards to buying domains on auction. What does it say about you that you attack me, for asking questions?
…
@andrew
You are a liar. I did not email you a few days ago about wicked.porn & nippon.porn because I don’t own those domains. FACTS. Those domains don’t even exist in the WHOis registry; so that confirms that you are a TROLL, and attacking me for asking a question on Twitter.
Stick to the issue at hand, I’m not the issue. Truth is truth. Is WI.com a exceedingly high-risk investment for non-trademark holder; absoluely…I’m David and you are the rich Goliath, but good luck refuting the strength my argument.
MHB was wrong in posting this sh*t but he would not win the auction because it hadn’t hit reserve. actually. several bids below reserves are just “fake” or at best from people that may try to get it at that price after the auction ends with personal negotiations. as you know the reserve is at $500,001 plus
@John Rashad (JR) –
I’m attacking you because you single handedly (with the help of Michael Berkens) harmed the value of a million dollar domain name. You have irresponsibly made claims without grounding or basis that any buyer of wi.com would be at some elevated risk, which is complete bullshit. The only way they are at risk is if they use the domain to infringe on an existing trademark. But you would need to be an idiot to do so.
No two letter .com in history, as far as I’m aware, has ever been lost in a UDRP complaint. There have been two UDRP’s which were lost, but overturned in either settlements or lawsuits subsequently.
The UDRP was denied and the panel explicitly said: “Moreover, there is nothing in the evidence before the Panel to suggest that the Respondent has used the Domain Name in bad faith or proposes to do so.”
So, J.R., if you think that I take it lightly when you harm 7 figure assets as they are about to be sold at auction, you are gravely mistaken. If you don’t understand why I went on the offensive to cut you off at the knees, then you must be disabled (and I don’t mean that as an insult to disabled folks). You, J.R., are toast. You are done. Finished. Don’t even bother continuing in this industry because I will make it my life’s work to extract my pound of flesh.
I agree wirh you Andrew.
However there was a 2-letter that was lost, LH.com was awarded to Lufthansa a couple of years ago.
https://www.thedomains.com/2008/04/28/lhcom-udrp-bad-decision-bad-language/
Richard – not true! Lufthansa miraculously won the UDRP, however, a subsequent law suit was filed by domain owner and Lufthansa settled with them, paying a LOT of money to ultimately acquire LH.com.
Didn’t know that. Thank you for clearing thatb up!
Wow – the above comment reads to me like Andrew is threatening this JR dude. In writing. In public. Dang…
“Don’t even bother continuing in this industry because I will make it my life’s work to extract my pound of flesh.”
seriously? man, get real. i tend to agree with you in this case but get over it. you’re a fly in a business that is itself a fly…
Yikes!
So let me get this straight….
Michael is outbid in WI.com auction
Michael writes above article
Andrew is seemingly pissed (rightfully so)
What is your connection again Andrew, buying or selling here? Either side of the coin the name takes a financial hit.
John, we, Media Options, are teh seller in the wi.com auction. And yes, it is a very clear conflict of interest and unethical to post such a disparaging article when you are an active bidder (one of the top bidders) in an auction.
This was a very poor judgement call by my friend Michael Berkens. I understand his perspective, which is:
An unknown wannabe troll domainer contacts Michael about the prior UDRP on wi.com and says that he thinks people should know the “risk”. Michael, even if he is not sure there is risk, thinks “well if I don’t post something and someone buys it and does get a UDRP, then this tire kicking troll John Rashad, will come back and say “I told you so” and make him look bad saying he didn’t post the warning because he is buddies with Andrew Rosener.
What Berkens overlooked is the fact that this loser troll John Rashad is extremely misinformed and now Berkens has made himself look extremely unethical by posting a disparaging article with a clear conflict of interest.
Everyone makes mistakes. This one is going to cost us a lot of money and it wasn’t even our fault.
#sayimsorry #youthinkyouknowwhoyourfriendsare
you are the seller? so why is WI.COM and other domains on auction at NameJet listed under Oliver Hoger’s name with him bidding on the domain names? I see here also some conflicts of interest to say the least.
@jose what are you talking about? Please show where Oliver Hoger is the registrant of wi.com. I want some of what you are smoking!
Domain Name: WI.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1180054_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.uniregistrar.net
Registrar URL: http://uniregistry.com
Updated Date: 2017-02-09-T13:16:07Z
Creation Date: 1995-04-29-T04:00:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-04-30-T04:00:00Z
Registrar: UNIREGISTRAR CORP
Registrar IANA ID: 1659
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@uniregistry.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.9494785380
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: INTERNET REAL ESTATE LTD
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: GIBRO HOUSE SUITE 4, 4 GIRO’S PASSAGE
Registrant City: GIBRALTAR
Registrant State/Province: GIB
Registrant Postal Code: GX11 1AA
Registrant Country: GI
Registrant Phone: +1.2127102222
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: INFO@INTERNETREALESTATE.COM
INTERNETREALESTATE.COM is/was used by Oliver Hoger when bidding on domains and has been associated with him until very recently. Are you saying you acquired that domain name?
yeah, you are right. It seems I made a confusion between VRELIMITED.COM /VIRTUAL REAL ESTATE LIMITED and INTERNETREALESTATE.COM/INTERNET REAL ESTATE LIMITED. both of you are located in Gibraltar
LEARN TO READ @Jose
Oliver Hoger has NEVER been associated with Internet Real Estate Ltd. or the InternetRealEstate.com domain name in any way whatsoever. Most people who have been in this industry for any amount of time are fully aware of the history of “Internet Real Estate” (Zappy & Andrew Miller, et al).
The only connection to Oliver Hoger is that Internet Real Estate is also domiciled in Gibraltar where he lives and his company is domiciled as well.
You have absolutely no knowledge of what you are speaking about and would be well served to mind your own business to avoid looking any more foolish than you already do.
We have bought thousands of domains from Oliver Hoger over the last 10 years (as have most active buyers in the domain industry). We have also sold many domains to Oliver and his company. Oliver has been a friend for many years and a very successful domain investor in his own right.
You haters should stop hating and watch people like Oliver wheel and deal to make a living in this business consistently and successfully for many years. You might learn something or earn something.
Only uneducated, un-traveled & ignorant folks like yourself believe that the USA is the end all be all. Panama has been one of the fastest growing GDP’s in the World for almost a decade. When my wife and I moved here in 2008 the USA & Europe was crashing into oblivion. The sky was falling. Arrived in Panama only to find a boom! Double digit GDP growth (#1 in the World that year). It was and still is an exciting time to be living in a country that is growing steadily, has a growing middle class that is lifting folks out of poverty and creating unprecedented opportunities for foreign investment and lifestyle.
Just for the record, I file and pay my taxes in the USA every year, always have.
Also for the record, because idiots like you probably don’t know, EVERY single one of the Fortune 500 companies that have any operations in Latin America have their headquarters in Panama. Proctor & Gamble, Caterpillar, John Deer, Dell, Microsoft, IBM, GE, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Johnson & Johnson, Adidas, Nike, Nintendo, Uber & hundreds of other companies…all in Panama.
The question shouldn’t be “why is Rosener in Panama?”…it should be “Why isn’t everyone else?”
Shill down @Andrew Rosener. You’re too excited. My apologies for the confusion and move on.
Jose yes learn first before you can see all my not under privacy here one sample always show my name in it next time check first before you write :
EIQ.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: OLIVER HOGER
Tech Organization: VIRTUAL REAL Estate Limited
Tech Street: SUITE 4, 4 GIROS PASSAGE
Tech City: GIBRALTAR
Tech State/Province: GI
Tech Postal Code: GX11 1AA
Tech Country: GI
Tech Phone: +1.8553653669
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: ADCLUB@USA.NET
now, this is getting funny. I was really sympathetic with you in the begging until I realized that you are only 15 years old. your arguments… my, oh my… i just hear you talking and talking, and nothing new or interesting comes out of your mouth. just bla, bla, bla. gangsta’ style, yo. listen up you modaf*kers, I’m the man, i work hard, i’m a poor underdog that has made his way to success and now everyone has envy of me, everyone wants my arse. maybe it’s because of my baldness. i’m so good i can’t stop talking about myself. my ego needs to be fed! please feed me! please! please!
grow up dude! you are looking like an idiot. probably that’s all that you are… you’re so full of shit you don’t even realize you are a fly in the business. do you think you are the first to try sell an LL.com for more than $500k and fail? stop trying to put the blame on others and insult everyone just because you cannot keep your mouth shut.
and don’t try to invert the situations and deliberately misinterpret what other people say or write. that is a cheap and lame technique and does not bode well of you, a public figure in the domain business.
@Andrew Rosener, you are looking like an angry kid with all that gangster-style talk. shill out.
I’m an anonymous troll but you are a “public figure” so think more before you write.
i did not accused you of anything, besides an eventually shill-bidding based on wrong information for which I apologized in due time after I understood what happened. Apologies also to Oliver Hoger who was dragged into this. Unfortunately I am unable to remove comments.
as for the rest you are full of sh*t like you are always saying.
LOL!
I do not know how many times I have told clients this, but domain names and trademarks though related, are not the same thing. The rights derived from each are very different. Trademark rights flow from use of a mark for goods or services in interstate commerce or within a state’s (countries) boundary. Domain name rights are derived by way of a domain name owner’s contract with a registrar. Although a trademark owner has common law, federal or state rights to particular terms that constitutes their mark or trade name, it does not necessarily translate that this owner, above all others, have rights to a domain name consisting of the trademark owners terms.
Further, an UDRP (Uniform Domain Dispute Resolution Policy) is an appealable arbitration WHICH CARRIES NO PRECEDENCE. In other words when that UDRP is appealed none of the finds of fact or law may be taken as true in a court of law.
When we argued the WI.COM UDRP we made our arguments based on the unique facts alleged by the Complainant and those of our client, the Respondent.
Once a third party buys the domain name WI.COM all of the facts change. The only lesson that can be learned from the UDRP is the point of view of the Complainant and maybe it could be argued that an entity that buys the domain name is on notice of WICOM’s alleged claim. Every single finding of fact and law stated by the arbitration panel is of no value in a court of law.
Any entity that is going to spend such a large amount of money on a domain name will have done its homework (trademark searches, etc.) and will be aware of any entities that claim an exclusive right in their own country to the two letters WI and will know to avoid the use of the domain for the same, similar, or within the natural zone of expansion, goods and services.
Personally I believe it will be very very hard for any entity to obtain exclusive rights to the two letters WI except in a very narrow listing of goods and services as the term WI is an acronym for so many things. The two letters WI has numerous meanings and purposes around the world and Complainant’s suggestions that it should have exclusive rights to the two letters is not only ludicrous, but shameful as a clear attempt to hijack a million dollar domain name to which they have no right. Some of the better known meanings of WI include, but are not limited to Wireless Communications, Wisconsin, West Indies, West India, Woman’s Institute, etc. A longer list is available at http://www.acronymfinder.com/WI.html. There are of course, in the US and in many other countries, numerous registered and pending trademarks both in the US and elsewhere for the letters, also including, but not limited to (US marks only):
Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Live/Dead
86641551 WI LIVE
86424702 WI LIVE
85385993 4174267 WI LIVE
85076785 4388456 WI LIVE
79035974 3431445 WI LIVE
78464043 3062468 WI LIVE
77585776 3714106 WI LIVE
77914060 3945622 WI LIVE
77891670 3915755 WI LIVE
77725452 3718185 WI LIVE
77278792 3430727 WI LIVE
77029898 3518806 WI LIVE
76313266 2743973 WI LIVE
74478980 1888210 WI LIVE
74311430 1769881 WI LIVE
74196189 1700189 WI LIVE
73286195 1193321 WI LIVE
Accordingly, any suggestion of the diminution of value of the domain name based on there having been an UDRP is, frankly, just bunk.
Respectfully Submitted,
Stevan Lieberman
http://www.aplegal.com
From just a few of the UDRP rulings I’ve read about, you should rarely feel safe buying a domain that exactly matches an EXISTING trademark…you never know how these folks will rule. Very risky, IMHO.
STRIKER – Not risky at all. You just have to act accordingly because you, as domain owner, also have strong rights. You just can’t infringe on the rights of others. I don’t think there is a single domain name that we have EVER sold for more than $100,000 which doesn’t have at least a dozen existing trademarks.
striker, seriously? One should not buy a domain that matches an existing trademark?
Most domains that sell for at least 5 figures on Namejet have many TMs on them.
If one does buy a domain with an existing trademark, then one should be prepared to defend against a UDRP or even possibly be prepared to defend against a lawsuit. I imagine the more valuable a domain is, the more expensive your legal defense could be as the complainant(s) will probably be even more motivated to get their hands on a six-or-seven figure domain. Personally, I stay away from all trademarks – not worth the potential legal costs, not to mention potentially losing the domain and also earning the “squatter” label…no thank you.
I bid on the domain the other day nice domain, good price, Judi is from Milwaukee WI.
Got an email late this AM about the UDRP which I was not aware of
Read the UDRP tried to call Andrew he was NA
Chatted with the general manager of Namejet.com specifically said did not want to harm them or Andrew but the point the reader made was that a bidder could wind up paying $500K $600K or more and get hit with a UDRP.
That would not be good for the industry so I published a post making people aware of the UDRP which I was not so they can get legal counsel if they wanted to get an opinion on whether their counsel thought it was an issue or not.
I don’t want to be the guy who was told by a 3rd party about the UDRP and didn’t say anything in the event the domain was sold and then hit with a UDRP.
That’s all folks
@Michael Berkens – I’m sorry, you put me in the position to have to go on the offensive against you. I take no pleasure in it.
HOWEVER: Your story holds no water. You are quite frankly full of shit. You were extremely aware of the prior UDRP, in fact, you personally (not Raymond) wrote about it just 18 months ago:
https://www.thedomains.com/2015/10/21/after-offering-400-brian-fera-loses-udrp-to-grab-two-letter-domain-wi-com/
That’s all folks
You wrote about the UDRP against wi.com 18 months ago! How can you claim you were not aware of it? You wrote the article (not Raymond):
https://www.thedomains.com/2015/10/21/after-offering-400-brian-fera-loses-udrp-to-grab-two-letter-domain-wi-com/
Do you even lift, bruh?
Hey MB,
At least hot headed Drew, living in his tax haven, while doing business in the US didn’t threaten to kick your teeth in like he did to Joseph Peterson.
Don’t worry about it you still have your American Constitutional rights to publish the truth, As for Roesner he needs to stick to his mosquito infested jungle, who are your investors? Who is this Media Options? Where does your investment come from? All Kosher businesses down in Panama? Some real harsh questions!
Domain Shane will do anything if you give him $10
These guys are always trying to hide, and twist the truth, it is a good article, it doesn’t matter the author is within their rights.
Stevan Lieberman is our attorney that defended us on the wi.com UDRP. As he said above, the prior UDRP filed frivalously against wi.com, has absolutely no bearing on the value or risk of wi.com for the future registrant.
The only risk is someone who uses the domain abusively against the rights of a trademark holder. Just like owning ANY domain name. Wi.com is no exception and no more risky.
What if you’re wrong? What if the buyer of wi.com loses this domain in a UDRP even though he/she doesn’t use the domain in an abusive way as it relates to existing trademarks? As I said previously, these UDRP panelists have made some real “head-scratching” decisions over the years.
Are you willing to offer the eventual buyer of wi.com some sort of “extra” UDRP-related financial guarantees in writing?
@Striker – why would wi.com require any more gaurantee against a future UDRP than any other 2 Letter .com? I guess that is the point here. Wi.com faces no elevated risk to the buyer vs. buying any other 2 letter .com domain. Did you read the legal opinion that Stevan Lieberman posted? You know, one of the top 5 domain name attorneys in the industry.
You wrote “The only risk is someone who uses the domain abusively against the rights of a trademark holder.” I simply asked if you were willing to back that statement up with a financial guarantee to the winning bidder in an effort to get your auction back on-track to a 7-figure selling price — because at this rate and with today’s blockbuster UDRP story, I don’t see you getting a much higher bid than where it stands now.
Yes, I read Mr. Lieberman’s post. It was one opinion from one attorney. Of course, he may be right, but good luck getting someone to gamble more than $500K on a “maybe”.
Best of luck with your auction.
@Striker – must feel good to act so confident behind your anonymous moniker. People like you are the problem with this industry and the main reason why most are not successful, so full of envy.
If you want your comments to carry any weight, why don’t you mention who you are? What is your agenda? Are you a bidder in the auction? If not, why? (I already know the answer to that one, its because you are a broke ass wannabe blog troll who couldn’t afford to buy a good domain in a penny auction).
Mr. Rosener,
I asked a straight-forward question in response to a previous statement made by you, in an attempt to give you some much needed guidance on you on how you could perhaps get this train-wreck of an auction back on track. Your response and subsequent attack against me and others here today, speaks volumes as to the content of your character, IMHO.
Again, best of luck with your auction.
@Striker – “subsequent attack against you…”??? REALLY??? I don’t even know who you are, how can I attack you? If your anonymous identity is feeling insulted or hurt, I’m really sorry, didn’t want to make you cry. I’m simply discrediting you as the anonymous worthless blog troll you are. You clearly have no idea of what you are talking about regarding domains and have never been involved in a high level domain transaction. But there is an air about you that you might be a rookie attorney, in which case I understand the anonymity because I’d have you disbarred for misconduct.
Now, as for your guidance, you can take it and shove it where the son don’t shine! But it is truly appreciated.
As for my character…I’m a self proclaimed ass hole. I eat people like you for breakfast. I am not here to make friends, I’m here to make business, deals & money. But what I do have going for me, is that I am the single hardest working man in the domain business. I make more sales than any single individual person (except apparently George Hong). Because I work so hard, I take what we have earned very seriously. Anyone trying to take it, devalue it or harm me or my business in any way, had better take notice, because I am NOT fucking around. This is NOT a game. You come at me and I promise you that I will see it through to the end and I will prevail (whatever that means) because failure is not an option for me. These are likely sentiments that you can not understand. That’s fine, but you should know where I stand.
Our domain wi.com will sell cheap today on auction because of you and Mr. Berkens and that other troll John Rashad (probably that is you too). Thats fine. It is what it is. Karma is a bitch and it will come around. Always does. Both directions.
Maybe this was your agenda all along, just to get wi.com on the cheap?
I take no pleasure in spending my time writing blog comments against schmucks like you. You are a time suck and if humanity had a balance sheet, you would be a liability.
Indeed.
Maybe if you paid taxes you wouldn’t be so lippy. Someone call the IRS on Media Options
If a UDRP was won for some crazy reason then you file in federal court and fight it (or just file right off the bat and bypass the UDRP). Anyone that can spend 500K+ on a domain will have the resources to battle. No way they win in court. Assuming the buyer is not purposely infringing on their mark.
Thank you – someone with a brain showed up
Yeah…and that court case could cost another $500K (good lawyers aren’t cheap)
@STRIKER And you might wake up as someone that matters tomorrow too. Oh and maybe there’s a tooth fairy!
Your conduct on this blog forum today hasn’t helped your brand or image in this industry, or any other for that matter. If I were you, I would politely apologize to Mr. Berkens for your behavior today and ask him to remove all of your comments to this article (I know, more sensible advice offered by me, which I expect will be summarily dismissed by you).
You pulling this 500K legal bill from some online randomizer or are you speaking from experience? My experience tells me you are making shit up.
Depends on the value (both intrinsic & notional) of what is being litigated, and to what extent the complainant is willing to go to win the case, not to mention the myriad jurisdictional considerations (both traditional and unforeseen).
And as I stated before…good lawyers are quite costly.
@Andrew, just ignore the distraction, stay focused.
Has this article done financial harm to you, absolutely, I mean who could argue it has not, it certainly has not made it more valuable.
A retraction or apology does nothing, the harm cannot be reversed.
I think Michael should have started the article with a disclosure and even at that it doesn’t look good, really shocked someone would do this. He has a very powerful voice and reaches many in the community, maybe he can work to right this wrong, it is not justified imo.
Michael Berkens is the man. He exposed Rossner like many others have been doing for years what an moron he is. Andrew Rossner is going to try to bully the wrong person and will get his ass kicked very bad. Biggest crybaby in the industry Rossner is!
Andrew Rossner, you threatened JR on a public forum! You are more stupid than you look. Law Enforcement will find your bald ass very soon for making threats.
In my opinion , the name is the name , I think that anyone Investing in a 500k name would probably not be influenced by Mikes article , I don’t see how this article diminished the value at all. I am sure it’s frustrating that the name is not getting the dollars that were antipated , but I know Mike very well he doesn’t need to try and scare off people capable of buying this name .
If we wanted to buy this name for 500k plus , the only thing this article would of done is suggest to me to contact my attorney or an attorney that practices in this area . All domains are potentially Udrp targets , but there is a much more binding process through the court system , so if you aren’t acting in bad faith nothing to be concerned with . investing in quality generic names like wi.com or any other LL.com has proven to be a good play.
You know I find all of this very amusing. Phil’s comments above are very apropos. Someone buying a domain for 100’s of thousands of dollars has to be sophisticated and will have done their research before spending that kind of money. Further, yes, a domain is a domain name and it can be used for anything under the sun so long as it does not infringe a senior users trademark rights.
Accordingly, I’ll make an offer. If the person who buys WI.com gets an UDRP and they have done a trademark search to ascertain that they are not infringing on another entities rights before they use the domain, and do not act in violation of the results of that search (re they do not act in bad faith) then I will provide a response to the UDRP claim for free.
The point here is I have already written one UDRP response so most of the work is done and I think my offer will settle this issue, at least pertaining to the UDRP once and for all.
Stevan
Thank you Stevan. Generous offer and ends the conversation. Bid away!
Wi.com HAS HIT RESERVE AND WILL SELL TODAY!
why are your domains being listed under Oliver Hodge WHOIS contact details? who is selling after all?
Nobody likes to pay taxes that is probably why, All these companies Gibraltar, lots of online caisnos, I wonder if domains can be used to wash money for such casinos?
Working out of Panama, moving in, and out of the US, very strange indeed.
Funny how Roesner, always reverts to Media Options owns this, and that, I wonder who Media Options is, Good thing they got El Chapo!
for the sake of discussion, I made a confusion between VRELIMITED.COM /VIRTUAL REAL ESTATE LIMITED and INTERNETREALESTATE.COM/INTERNET REAL ESTATE LIMITED. Andrew Rosener and Oliver Hoger have both business located in Gibraltar.
everyone has to right to avoid taxes.
Just for LULZ, I hope Mike swoops in at the last minute and wins this auction for 503k
@STRIKER For the first time we agree!
Register any LLcom or NNcom for a trademark. And then udrp LL.com or NN.com. If you are lucky, you will get the domain. If not, just wait until a new owner of the domain comes and udrp it again.
Rossner is screwed! Guy is jealous of Michael Berkens and all guys with hair(lol)
I have a question for Andrew Rossner. Did you contact the WICOM and alert them to the auction? I feel this is relevant for a number of reasons.
I appreciate you may not want want to answer this.
NO, we did NOT contact the WICOM trademark owner. I wouldn’t sell the domain to him if he wanted it. For any price.
But if the trademark owner made the winning bid today, wouldn’t you indeed be selling to him at that price, negating the foolish comment you just made above?
I don’t think he’s smart enough to buy it, nor do I think he has the money. If I’m wrong, so be it.
We’ve made a decision to sell the domain. It has hit reserve and will sell today! If he’s the buyer, so be it, but I don’t think that will be the case…
Thank you. Good luck with the sale.
Anonymous commenting is a CANCER on our industry and it should be cut out like a tumor.
There is no learning moment in these blog trolls. They add no value. If someone has something to say, they should be attributable and liable.
Anonymous comments hinder economic performance and social cohesion. It creates an environment of distrust and a increased lack of transparency.
I would give $10,000 personally to have the identities & ip addresses of all the anonymous commenters posted on the blog. Let the public stone them as appropriate.
Andrew did you apoligize to Berkens and also to JR the guy you threatened to cause physical harm to? I suggest you do so.
I have no reason to apologize to either Berkens or JR. In fact Berkens has great reason to apologize to me for posting such an unfounded article which has already been refuted by a domain attorney in the comments above.
Berkens has already begun his form of apology by posting the new article:
https://www.thedomains.com/2017/03/15/attorney-who-represented-wi-com-in-udrp-offers-to-file-response-for-new-owner-for-free-if-another-udrp-is-filed/
Still waiting for JR’s apology for sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong.
And by the way, I made no such physical threat against JR. NONE. Nowhere did I threaten any form of physical violence against him. I threatened economic action against him. I will be certain that my company and anyone that chooses to do business with us, absolutely under no circumstances will do business with JR or any company he is associated with. He has been black listed. Sanctioned like Iran. But I will at least give him credit for posting under his actual person. Unlike you @Lisa – you are just another blog trolling anonymous maggot like Rich & Jose. Come into the light folks, the water is warm.
He has made threats when he loses his cool in the past, at Joseph Peterson to kick his teeth in, then retracted when someone stated a physical thread online which still a threat. Good thing Joseph Peterson is a civil man, and took the higher road.
Couldn’t agree with you more @rich. Joseph Peterson is a stand up dude and took it like a man, even if my comment was over the line.
When you start out an underdog and you have to fight your way to the top, everyone is looking to cut you out one way or the other. You learn to get real tough or you die. I will never apologize for my attitude or personality. It has served me well. If you can’t deal with it, grow up. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. I will NEVER tolerate worthless blog troll maggots attacking me like fleas. Sure, the better approach would be to ignore you maggots. But I’m like the energizer bunny, so I’ll eat you up, spit you out and keep on running. Just on principle alone, you deserve to be chastised and verbally abused till tears run down your cheeks.
Why because you don’t get your way, because someone questions who media options is, where it’s funding comes from? I guess we know why Escrow.com went to ID verification, who is funneling money thru what, when people ask tough questions you don’t like, you spaz out.
Maybe you need to look at yourself, Berkens had every right to publish what he wanted on his blog, you can start your own blog, and write what you want, this is not Panama. People have rights, and freedoms, you want to live in the jungle, and act like tarzan by all means.
Nobody cares, you have done the same thing, you are known for your tantrums from dnforum, to namepros, it is quite funny actually.
Dude, the way you describe yourself…it’s like you’re the love-child of Rocky and King Kong
Unless your name is Mike Tyson and you simply buy a new one if you crash your Ferrari, I am pretty sure most people bidding for a name such as wi.com will have done their due diligence beforehand.
Rossner why you so bitter? Why you so insecure? Did people make fun of you and bully you when you were a kid and kicked your ass bad? Seriously dude you need medication. You think everybody is out to get you, you aren’t your not that important.
@Andrew Rosener take some xanax… your are shooting everything that moves, even your own shadow. take it more lightly.
you’re now looking like a newbie by getting upset with almost any critic. the trolls have their purpose in life and if you don’t like it move on.
MHB seems too quiet in face of this. I am sympathetic with you in face of the timing of the warning and after MHB itself had bid on the domain *bellow reserve*. but you are way over the line with all this. it is like you were new to the internet…
You really think that your auction will not reach a million dollars because of MHB post? grow up man. other brokers are trying to sell similar domains above 500K level and are having a hard time moving inventory, and they don’t have publicity, either good or bad.
bottom line: shill out.
Jose,
I’m certainly not being sympathetic to Andrew; however, you my friend (as is the case with all of us) are legally responsible for any libelous claims made on the internet — and I must say, you should probably hope Andrew forgoes the legal route as you may be in a bit of trouble on that front if he does.
sure
I am sorry to see the dispute here, especially involving Andrew and Michael who have both contributed so much to the domain industry. If one good thing can come out of this, perhaps it’s the awareness which all domain owners should have that major UDRP and ACPA reform are necessary in order that there be a healthy domain marketplace.
Both Andrew and Michael are members of the Internet Commerce Association – InternetCommerce.org – which, if anyone here doesn’t know, is a nonprofit organization working for such reform on behalf of domain registrants. If you own a domain and are not a member you may want to consider joining now, so your property isn’t subject to the threat of opportunistic seizure by overreaching trademark holders.
@jon schultz – rest assured Mike Berkens and I are still friends and its all good. Business is business.
This whole affair was unfortunate and ultimately cost me a LOT of money as wi.com sold just at reserve as MB’s article scared off all the bidders.
But maybe if more folks in the industry were members of the ICA they would have a more informed view of the industry, the legal issues and how it all works. Then we would have less of this nausea.
Banning anonymous comments would also go a long way to elevating the industry.
You have absolutely no proof that MB’s article scared off even one bidder (not to mention “all the bidders” as you just claimed)…pure speculation on your part.
The domain sold for what it was worth on that day (yesterday) — which is why most domain investors don’t sell their ultra-premium domains at auction, but I’m assuming you already know all of this.
I don’t know all the details, and Im not one for controversy 🙂 but in general Rosener is correct.
Andrew
Did the buyer pay for the name?
I hope that Berkens and everyone else is happy. The Chinese buyer of wi.com on NameJet (bidder name: “index”) sent a note to Namejet yesterday saying that specifically because of Michael’s article about wi.com they are not going to proceed with the sale. Apparently the article got picked up by EName and sent to all the big Chinese 2 letter .com buyers and that is why none of the Chinese bidders participated. Berkens scared them away for no good reason. The accusations were unfounded as so many folks above, including one of the top domain lawyers, pointed out.
So…to all of you naysayers (read that as “worthless maggot blog trolls), YES, the article absolutely and unequivocally caused us substantial monetary damage. I hope you sleep well at night. Karma is a bitch and it will come back around. Always does.
Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise – now you can hold the domain and wait for a seven-figure offer.
Or was the “Chinese buyer” really just a shill to begin with?
Nothing in this biz surprises me anymore.
@striker you ignorant blog troll maggot. There you are again with your unfounded accusations.
For anyone who has been in this industry for more than a few days and actually is a player in the business and actually buys domains worth anything on Namejet, you would recognize the bidder alias “index” because they have been historically one of the biggest buyers there is on the platform. I used to get consistently outbid by “index”. They are very much a real bidder and they were very much bidding to win. But because of people like you and MB’s bullshit article they backed out.
But yes, on one point I do agree with you, in the long term it is a blessing. We will sell wi.com for 7 figures.
Did you have to notice that question-mark at the end of my sentence (in the post above)? Do you know the definition of the word “accusations”?
Grow up.
* “happen”, not “have” — typo…
Did you HAPPEN to notice that question-mark at the end of my sentence (in the post above)? Do you know the definition of the word “accusations”?
Couldn’t you just sell it to the #2 bidder for their $500K offer?
Did you happen to notice that you exemplified your ignorance without me having to point it out?
Huh?
« “index” because they have been historically one of the biggest buyers there is on the platform»
actually “index” is not a big buyer on NameJet, i have record on a few transactions on NameJet. You are probably confusing it with bidder “first”.
interesting…
he is a smart guy. he is felling a buyer’s remorse because it looks and thinks that $500k is really a lot of money that does not grow out in trees. no one else seems to have bid on the name in a market that is going down for more than a year and starts to feel stupid. then he decides to use this lame excuse of MHB’s post.
how lame can this market go? way lower it seems.