“The good, the bad and the ugly” An opportunity for readers to discuss what they like and don’t like about a particular company in the domain space.
Each post will deal with just one company, readers are encouraged to share their positive and negative experiences. Suggestions for improvement are also encouraged.
One of the goals of the column is that company representatives will see how their customers think of them. This can lead to a conversation on fixing problems.
What is not allowed:
- Personal attacks on individuals at the chosen company
- Promoting a competitor
- Posting domains for sale
The company in the spotlight today is Epik
Founded: 2009
Epik Escrow, and domain leasing is leaps, and bounds ahead of godaddy/uniregistry etc…
One of the best things I like about Epik is super fast communications for support questions with their team. It’s especially great that you can reach Rob (Rob Monster CEO) directly and get a rapid reply also.
Epik is very well organized and managed. They offer a top notch and very comprehensive domain management control panel.
Highly recommend Epik!
I agree with Rich and Kevin, above, and highly recommend Epik. It’s nice to be able to easily set up a “buy it now” page for a domain in your Epik account and direct a buyer there, so they can buy the domain immediately with no wait or hassle/expense of escrow. It will cost you 5% to withdraw funds, but there’s no cost if you use the funds for renewals or transfers in
I will make one suggestion. Right now you can offer a domain for sale or lease – and you can add to the terms and conditions of the lease to specify that the lessee becomes the owner of the domain after so many payments, and thus set up a pay-over-time transaction that way – but it would be nice to have three distinct options: purchase, pay-over-time purchase, and lease. Then you could set up a pay-over-time purchase with a larger amount down and smaller monthly payments (and you could still add to the T&C of a lease that a certain percentage of the lease payments apply towards the purchase price if the lessee decides to purchase). That would take a great system and make it even greater.
I thought there was only a 5% funds withdrawal fee if you use PayPal?
@Jon – Thanks for your comments. The option of doing structured payments is coming. It is a relatively small deviation from the leasing model.
As for the marketplace proceeds, it is indeed commission-free when using funds on Epik. If funds are redeemed, the fee is a very low 5%.
A distinct advantage of being both registrar and market-maker is the ability to assure the buyer of instant access, without them wondering who will answer their questions once they are ready to get started.
Nice service from industry vereran.
Everything is ok with them , transfers in/ out , support , advices etc, without to mention a free wordpress (basic) site for your mini info for your domains .
One of the top 2 registrars i use.
For some reason I did not even discover Epik until recently despite my heavy involvement investing in domains and publishing since 2001. Perhaps I saw it briefly in passing over the years and had simply felt there was no point in checking it out in light of all the many others I had been using.
Since finally trying it myself, Epik.com is the best “new” domain name and diversified web presence discovery for me since “sliced bread” as the saying goes. That includes their truly exceptional account management user interface, various options demonstrating such welcome and pleasant outside the box thinking, customer friendliness, and their support which definitely really is “legendary” whether you’re talking to Sarah, Jessica, Rob himself, or anyone else. 🙂 I only wish I had discovered them sooner. With a combination of transfers in, new registrations, and attrition through eliminating the better part of 1,000 domains from my portfolio in recent years in order to “trim the flock,” Epik.com is now my #1 registrar in terms of number of domains managed. I am also considering moving what I regard to be some of my company’s top most valuable domains there as well which I have not wanted to move before at all.
Does this mean “perfection” has already been achieved, there is no room for improvement, and it is time to kick up one’s heels and lean back in complacency? Of course not. I hope they will continue pursuing the kind of continual progress and outside the box thinking they have demonstrated so welcomely and well and represent to me now. In the meantime, however, I love everything they’ve done, love using such user friendly software, and they truly stand out among what had become a disappointingly static scene and status quo for me.
Wow guys, this is some awesome feedback. Thank you. I am humbled.
We have seen significant growth in the last year as more folks have discovered our industry insider secret. I said from the outset that I had no desire to be the biggest. I just wanted to be the best.
If the market ultimately rewards us with market share, so be it, but it is not a success metric for me.
As some of you know, we became a registrar almost by accident. It was back in 2011 that Epik had the opportunity to become a registrar through an acquisition. When I started Epik in 2009, I had no plan for Epik to become a registrar. However, it was in 2010 that I finally realized that Godaddy was not going to be the last word in registrars. The policies there were Draconian. As I saw it, despite having nice staff there, their institutionalized practice of screwy upsells, arbitrary transfer locks, and hidden charges could not stand. At the time, I looked around for another registrar, and frankly none were impressive. It seemed that everyone had chased Godaddy’s model of selling domains at cost, with the predictable result that service and innovation went right down the drain. That is not a winning model in my view. You won’t make it up in volume.
In the meantime, some 5+ years later, we have built a world-leading user interface, a robust back-end, and a support team that is among the best. We are also the leading provider of domain leasing, and are active as a domain marketplace, both of which have the option of being commission-free. What occupied a lot of time during the past 2 years has been onboarding a massive number of TLDs, both gTLDs and ccTLDs, as a direct registrar. Unless you have been in this business, it is hard to appreciate the task, and the resources that goes into that. However, I do believe the new TLDs have legs, so it was a required investment. No regrets. We won’t be sponsoring Superbowl ads, or booking out a nightclub at NamesCon. We would rather pass those savings on to our customers. Our customers are not idiots – they know these things are not free. In an age of viral social media, it is conceivable that we don’t need these things to achieve steady growth.
One area where I am particularly proud has been our commitment to protecting registrants. Unlike some registrars who presume the registrant is guilty, we do not. We will look at the facts first. We also have a cultural norm of “doing the right thing, even when nobody is looking”. There are no commission-based personnel here. We pay a fair wage, and even pay 100% of employee insurance premiums — even though my benefits consultant has been telling us for years that I am being way old fashioned for doing so. I know every one of our staff personally. They have my back, and, perhaps more importantly, they have yours.
Looking ahead, we have some good news coming. Our new mobile application is a gem. It is fast, secure and works with all available domain inventory — all native TLDs, all reseller TLDs, our marketplace, and MLS inventory. I think you will like it. On Monday, March 6, we’ll announce an acquisition that I think the industry will really appreciate. It adds significantly to our operating capability as a global contender and will greatly expand the ways that we can help domain investors to sell into end-users at much higher prices than that they are being sold presently. In short, we will help domain investors turn quality domains into Digital Brands. Stay tuned.
Great comments and excellent post in general. Am interested to learn more about Epik.
I am interested as well…
I’ve been around 15+ years and heard of Epik but thought they were just a web development company (developing out websites)
~Patricia — Ohio USA — DomainBELL
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Hello Robert,
As a result of your comments and of the nice presentation that you made here with regard to why and how attractive Epik should be for the customers, I found myself immersed in a powerful urge to become one of your customers and considered putting all my domains in your basket. No irony here. But the itch to look beyond the humanized marketing front-end and to thoroughly analyze the Epik services gave me no peace of mind, thus I stumbled upon the fact that Epik charges a mind-boggling price for a .com renewal: 35$/1 year. Indeed, this is not a hidden charge since it’s clearly specified on Epik’s website, but 35 bucks for a 1-year renewal? Really? Well, just another quotidian renewal upcharge. And you are bashing GoDaddy, Robert? I’m not interested in the special promo that you are offering to the NamePros domainers, even though I can very well benefit from it, because I believe that it’s not fair to have this type of discounts applicable to a select few in such a non-transparent manner. Even the GoDaddy monster has its Discount Domain Club publicly offered on its website and you don’t have to request it via forum or chat. Indeed again, the difference is that your discount program does not cost the domainer a penny, but that’s because the normal-renewal-fee customers are paying for it. A man/business can be either honest or not, not only under certain circumstances or for small groups. I believe this human feature has a different name. Please accept a friendly advice for your business and try to be upfront about everything. Who knows, maybe your business will become truly epic. Thank you for taking the time to read my opinion.
Best regards.
@Jimmy Hoffa – Actually if you have more than 10 domains, your pricing is vastly better, particularly if you pay via bank transfer, in which case the price drops down to registrar-cost for customers that have 1000+ domains and pay via bank transfer. For the customers with 1-2 domains, be assured, they are just delighted with Epik’s full-service. For a non-technical end-user with 1-2 domains they are actively using, the full-service renewal fee is great value resulting in very high customer loyalty. By contrast, most of the retail registrars chased Godaddy’s broken business model and their innovation stopped and their service suffered. By contrast, Epik is all-inclusive, full-service and invests in product innovation. Domain investors with large portfolios are in a special class where they get treated as inventory partners. Better business model. Better result. Make sense now? Anyway, if you don’t like your rate, just contact our friendly support staff and talk to us about your portfolio. You will be glad you did.
Hey Robert, What are the renewal costs of hosting my 700 domains at epik? Most are for sale and I am interested in parking them for sale at epik. I renew 60 or so every month. .com, .net and .org. Currently using Namebright’s funded account to get at cost renewals $8.03 on .coms.
With my experience of more than 15 domain registrars, I found EPIK and namecheap to be the best and fastest customer support.
They had some offer of either 3+1 year free or 4+1 year free on .com domains. I wrongly renewed multiple years of new gtld premium domain to avail the offer later realizing that the offer was not applicable on new gtld. I informed EpIk about this and they gave me 1 year free domain renewal worth 240 usd. I hardly had 3 to 4 domains with them, but they still showed this great gesture.
I think they are far ahead of many in terms of user experience. They lack somewhere in marketing and need to work on it to increase their business. They can be more active on social networking sites. They can produce write ups for domain newsletter subscribers.
@Imran – I am glad that incident worked out for you. As you likely know, most companies of size are policy-driven. The trouble with being policy-driven is that at scale, the company becomes heartless. That is why I prefer hiring for cultural fit and personal integrity. People who lack a demonstrated history of personal integrity rarely get hired here in the first place. If and when it does happen, they are outed quickly. By the way, the cultural norm here is simple: “do the right thing, even when nobody is looking”.
I found Epik in 2013 to explore some alternatives to parking and to provide a financing option to customers who wanted a particular name that was out of their “buy it today” price range.
I now have 15 leases with Epik that cover nearly 30% of my $36k yearly registration bill (4K domains) Since 2013, I’ve transferred 80% of my domains to Epik and they have really been outstanding and more responsive than I could ask for a company to be. Their tools for modifying and maintaining domains in bulk are top notch. Come tax time they have reports and financial summaries that make my life easier than it ever was at larger registrars. They even add fairly accurate appraisal values to all of the domains in your portfolio.
At one point, I asked about a particular feature that I didn’t see in their existing API that I needed for a custom script on my website. It didn’t exist, and to my surprise, they added it to the API for me a few days later. That type of service is unheard of anywhere else. Most places would just say “sorry, that doesn’t exist” and you would have to move on without the feature. I really have nothing but good things to say about them.
Thanks Garrett. That is a great testimonial. It is very kind of you to share some of your factual results with others here. As the Swiss Bank of Domains, you know we would not publish such info. However, I can attest that it is true. I will add that your leasing proceeds are being deposited tax-free and commission-free into your Epik Masterbucks account which is allowing you to renew domains at cost, using pre-tax no-commission proceeds from leasing income. The deal is indeed sweet.
In general, I believe leasing is very greatly used by Domainers. I have been saying this for some time. Unfortunately, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Sure, domain owners can still park their domains if they so choose, but when a customer makes a domain inquiry it makes far more sense to be able to direct folks to a lease rather than inviting a low ball offer. Most leases are being done by folks who want to buy. So, the end result is steady income now, and a windfall later. What’s not to love?
I gotta get me some of that… (smile)
I asked in chat about being able to edit some of the automated camel casing (excellently accurate overall) of my Marketplace listed domains (what a great win-win perk) last summer, and the gentleman I was chatting with asked me to also bring it to the attention of the support email. That very day Rob himself contacted me to let me know the “Domain Transform and Keywords” feature was available. Now I wasn’t sure at the time, but it really seemed as if they had made and added it there right that day in response to my first contact about it. I certainly hadn’t found it before and had looked for a way to do that. If that’s not what happened, then even just Rob himself contacting me to let me know of it is certainly what you call “legendary.” To tell you the truth, between Sarah, Jessica and Rob himself I’m actually getting a bit concerned about them and hope they are all getting some sleep and having lives outside of work because of all the incredibly responsive support they provide. Perhaps they will need more people soon. 🙂
@John – I actually remember that email thread. For the record, we really did have that feature in for at least a year. 🙂
As for keeping it Legendary, let me tell you, the buck really does stop here. I actually see every chat log. I also see the registry report for any domain that tries to leave Epik. The good news is that I am a very fast reader and an all-pro multi-tasker.
Now, that being said, we do actually design for scale. The technology is designed for scale, and the support organization is growing. The acquisition we will announce on March 6 is very exciting. It also adds world class leadership in the European, Middle East and Africa time zones. As part of this, we will be adding more live support in more languages.
I am online close to 100 hours per week when I am not traveling for business or pleasure. In case not aware, I run multiple companies. When I do travel, I make sure that before my head hits the pillow, Skypes are answered, voicemails checked, and emails are reviewed, in that order. Internally we also use Slack, Zendesk, JIRA for project management.
On the personal side, my wife, Jill, is a successful (and busy) physician. Jill runs a tight ship too. Eventually I expect we will both slow down but right now we are still busy raising 5 great kids, ages 13 to 25, showing them what it takes to build something worthwhile that lasts. So far so good. And as visible as people think I am on Epik, I actually spend more time on DigitalTown.
I will close here with one final comment on the topic of work ethic. Looking back, I had great bosses and mentors at P&G where I started my career. One early boss explained to me that people often over-estimate what they can do in a year but under-estimate what they can do in 5 or 10. I think that is right. In other words, don’t be daunted. That old boss was fond of saying: “just keep chipping away”. Yup.
You are really a Monster, Rob! 🙂
Never heard of them before either but i just signed up .
Such positive opinions from domainers ,so they must be good.
Have been transfering my domains from 101domain to UNI and reg new domains there .
I think I make a turn and go wih EPIK
Thanks Raymond.
I found Epik.com a few years ago when I was trying to find other exclusive backorder companies like Name.com that will let you be the the only backorder. After some successful transactions that way I got to emailing with the CEO, Rob (as others have said he’s quick to respond and a friendly guy). I have never waited more than 15 minutes for an email response by Rob… Insanely impressive. With the discounted registration prices and free whois I started transferring my domains his way, 1600+ currently. I’ve placed “Buy Now” domains for sale on the Epik marketplace and when they sell I get paid instantly, zero commission. One time I needed to trade a domain with someone and Rob facilitated that for free. I do not currently list my names with companies like DomainNameSales.com but when I was looking into doing so recently I noticed that Epik was in the network of companies that allow quick transfers and payments, awesome… Overall a company and a Rob is a great ally to have in this business!
@Rick77 – Thanks for the kind words. We know your account well. And you are correct, we are not a nickel and dime shop. Where possible, we’ll help a brother or sister out. As for responsiveness, that is a cultural norm here. That said, people do need downtime. Thankfully support@epik.com and live chat are 24/7. While I personally am not 24/7, despite rumors to the contrary, it just so happens that if you log 100 hour weeks, as I have been known to do, you are often online when your customers are. Thankfully we just added another A-team in Amsterdam led by Reza Sardeha, so support-wise we should have you covered.
Robert,
I’d like to transfer my domain portfolio from GoDaddy to Epik in order to get them leased.
How do I enroll in the discount domain program?
Thanks,
jon.
@ Jon – As discussed privately a short while ago, you are all set. Welcome.
Thanks Robert!
I currently have around 2,000 domains with Epik. The leasing option is just awesome!
The good: I agree with all of the accolades above. Rob has built an amazing registrar and he is a wonderful person to deal with. Straight talk all the time, no BS with Rob.
The bad: N/A
The ugly: N/A
Overall I am very happy I made the switch several years ago. Give them a shot, you will be glad you did.
Do Epic have a presence / affiliation in China
@Jonathan – As of January 2017, Epik is directly accredited for the .CN registry by CNNIC. We currently provide mirrored hosting for China and Asia from a data center Singapore. A new cloud host will be added in the coming months for improved latency for mainland China. Our new mobile app and upgraded marketplace, both to be announced shortly, will also be available in Chinese (not Google Translate). Last but not least, we are also on the lookout for a strategic acquisition in China. In the meantime, support is already 24/7.
I don’t read all of these but this is the first time I’ve seen one where the comments are only praise, and it is well deserved. They don’t make guys like Rob anymore and companies like Epik are hard to find. It’s a place where the customer is still right and their only answer is yes and we can (within reason of course). When they say they are going to do something they do it, often times that day. If you have feedback they listen to it and care. If you request a feature it may very well be added in, that day. Where else are you going to find someone to work with like that? Not just in the domain space, but in any space?
@JP – Thanks for the kind words. A lot of tech companies run for the hills when they hear from a demanding customer. We embrace them, particularly the ones that we call “demanding and sophisticated”, i.e. they can articulate their ideas. When it comes to entertaining ideas, the main thing we ask for in return is mutual respect. Treat us like your partner, and we make things happen. In other words, we are not a vendor. We are your secret weapon for winning in the Digital Age. There is a difference.
Very well said Rob!
Kevin
back in the years when ppc started to go all to shit i tried an epik service and was dissatisfied. i started bad mouthing rob monster on the internet. he reached out to me and rectified the problem and then some. he went above and beyond and as far as i’m concerned the guy is aces.
@RaTHead. Thanks for your comment. I remember your case from 2011. As long as one has a breath remaining in their lungs, it is never too late to do the right thing. 🙂 Glad we were able to make it right.
Epik IS the internet’s best kept secret. Consistently has the Best domain pricing, best value – free privacy, excellent service when needed, where else when an issue arises, do you get to call the CEO (even late at nite or early morn and speak directly to him – now this is cool! Lots of cool features & benefits being offered inside EPIK’s website, unlike other registrars whom all nickel and dime you to death for every feature they might provide.
I recommend Epik!
@Poison Ivy – I obviously know your account well. And indeed we just might be the best kept secret in the industry. I agree. The challenge will be to remain great as we scale. And for that we are bringing in some help. News soon. I am sometimes quoted as saying to my team: “kick ass. stay humble.” If you see otherwise, let me know.
I’ve had my entire portfolio at Epik for years. I’ve turned many investors on to Epik and every one of them as been thrilled. You’d be hard-pressed to find better service anywhere.
Thanks Braden.
As a respected industry participant, your votes of confidence and public endorsement are greatly appreciated. Thank you for that.
In the meantime, welcome back from your latest global tour. Those of us who are privileged to be your friend, on Facebook, and elsewhere, get to live your adventurous life vicariously. 🙂
am i reading right that they are charging $35 for a dot com renewal
Ask for the namepros disccount via chat in epik
Epik are epic!
I gradually moved all my domains to Epik over the past few years (mostly from Godaddy) and now I’m delighted to have virtually all of them registered there. Recently also moved my main personal email account to them (out of habit I had always left it with GoDaddy). That also went very smoothly.
I experimented with a paid for domain store a couple of years ago without realising Epik offered one just as good for free! So promptly cancelled that once the first year was up and moved my store to Epik.
As others have menthioned their support is also fantastic, I usually use live chat and you get a reply very quickly.
I would actually also rate them as my favourite service-based website of any kind, let alone favourite domain website.
Long may they continue 🙂
I doubt very much there’s a person more demanding than myself when it comes to service.
Yes, I was a real pain you know where… However, Epik is just fantastic.
I love the DN transfer. I send an email to support telling which DN I want to transfer and that’s doing it.
Portfolio manager? A piece of cake…
If I call for anything, always someone there to answer.
What else do you want? Great Service.
Thank you to all members of Epik!
have had hundreds of domains at Epik that I have both registered and transferred. What I do not like about this registrar as that once domians expire they then purchase the names and start to “manage” them. To me this seems to be a very unethical practice. I have had several domains that have expired and soon after I get a message from Epik saying they are now managing/owners of the names. It seems like trolling and a smack in the face if you ask me. I have really not ever heard of a registry doing such. It appears Epik is in the business of selling domain extensions but also seems to be in the business of trolling their customer’s domains in hopes of that really valuable ones expire, so they can be the new owners themselves. This practice has made very very uneasy with Epik. Because of this practice most of my domains I now try to transfer them out before expiration. Again, this practice seems unfair and unethical. If you are in the business of selling domain extensions great but to be in the business of domaining trolling customers names so you can add to your Epik portfolio/site seems wrong and dishonest on so many levels.
I also decided to transfer my names because I was given a “preferential” price once opening my account that was sustained for about a year only to be told that it was too low and then raised, though in writing the price I paid was still posted. Upon making a call speaking with a representative noticing that I had many domains reverted back and gave me the same price I had before which was changed on the phone by the owner to a higher price, This also made me uncomfortable with doing business at Epik at well.
@Dara
Our Expired Domains Policy is transparently published here:
http://www.epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/
In short:
1. The day after the domain expires, we park your DNS. This is both to make sure you are aware that your domain is expired in case the 6 renewal notices did not alert you. We do park the DNS with ads because from the moment the domain is expired we are footing the bill — registries require us to keep funds on deposit with them. Now ironically, those collected stats from the parking partners are still associated with your domain and the activity accrues to your account until the domain is deleted from your account.
2. The default grace period is 15 days. For large accounts, we can extend it out to day 35 though we typically don’t like to do that since domain investors are known to abuse the grace period. However, for a distress situation, fine to do it. The reality is that if you intend to keep a domain and simply auto-renew it, none of this matters.
3. On day 35, before the domain goes to Snapnames expiry auction, we try to have a live person review the domains to make sure that we are not sending a name that a customer might likely want to keep. We send very few of such emails these days. If you got one, it is because a human reviewer thinks you did not really want to drop that domain.
4. If we keep a domain and you were the past registrant, you can recover the domain for a fixed fee not to exceed $199, assuming we still have the domain. Ask how many other registrars will do that for you? If the domain has been deleted and is in redemption, domain investors can typically recover the domain through Epik for a modest upcharge above the registry restore fee.
As for your pricing, if you were paying with PayPal and paying $8.10 for a .COM, we were losing about $0.75 on you with each registration. If you are willing to pay via bank transfer you can still get .COM for $8.10 just like before. In other words, we don’t even try to make a margin with domainers. We do ask that domainers cover our hard cost. Reasonable, no?
Looking ahead, we are doing something very cool that I think domain investors will really like. I am not at liberty to talk about it yet but the acquisition of Undeveloped was in part in order to do a better job of helping domainers to better monetize their expiring and unwanted domain inventory. Enough said.
Hope that helps. Check in anytime.
I empathize with Dara on this topic. Typically you get at least 40 days (ICANN Standards) to renew. And I definitely think it quite unethical, regardless of these supposed fees you speak of (cost of doing business) to charge me $90 to redeem my domain which I’ve been paying for since before Epik took over IntrustDomains. And that topic brings me to a whole other level of distaste. Before I go on a rant about how I feel I’ve been taken advantage of I would like to resolve my issue privately.
James’ domain was restored without penalty. He has one domain with Epik for an account created in 2010. This particular domain expired on October 7 after 6 renewal notices and 16 days of grace period. His renewal rate is a professional renewal rate typically reserved for persons with 100+ domains under management. We received no request in advance for special extension of grace. Had we gotten a request, I am sure we would have worked to accommodate. In the meantime, I have also sent James an email, replied to his support ticket, and left him a voicemail … all on a Saturday.
In general, we value every customer. If someone has a situation, just ask. As I am sure many customers of Epik can attest, Epik has extended many loans, grace periods and made special arrangements for folks who needed extra time for managing their renewals. We don’t discriminate, favor or judge anyone’s circumstance. We respect individuals and simply ask the same in return. As a general statement, when seeking a favor from anyone, I recommend to always try the “nice guy” approach first, before lobbing groundless invective. There are lots of people in this world who are still looking out for their fellow man. And as long as I am running, Epik will do that, and hopefully thereafter.
So, now let’s talk about how we help customers not lose their domains for a typical .COM:
1. Epik sends up to 7 renewal notices starting 90 days before expiry.
2. Epik provides a 15 day free grace period. Approved accounts can get a longer grace period upon request.
3. On day 36 of expiry, most expiry domains are sent to Snapnames for auction. If the former registrant comes back within 30 days, we can unwind the sale at Snapnames.
4. On day 43 we delete expired domains at the registry. This starts a 30 day redemption cycle during which domains can still be restored for a fee.
5. In some cases, prior to deleting Epik will keep domains that we think should not be dropped. If the former registrant comes back within 1 year, and we still have it, we restore it for a fee of not more than $199 and often less depending on the unique case of the individual as to why they dropped the ball.
As for domain security, we are pretty much the industry benchmark with a variety of proven solutions:
1. Epik offers 2-factor authentication with both SMS and Google Authenticator.
2. Epik offers free IP allow management, restricting account access to a specific fixed IP or set of IPs. Our API access is also regulated by IP allow for specific domains.
3. Epik provides a free MaxLock service for customers who want total lockdown on their domains.
4. Epik does integrate with Afternic and Sedo MLS. Customers with MaxLock also are protected from unauthorized MLS transactions.
5. Epik provides free WHOIS privacy. This is related because most domain theft attempts are based on identity fraud, i.e. a non-registrant purporting to be the registrant via support.
6. Epik’s support team uses PIN codes to authenticate phone and chat support transactions.
7. Epik personnel are carefully screened. Most of our staff has been with us for many years. There are no staff on commission or otherwise incentivized to exploit customers in any way.
8. Last but not least, Epik has recently introduced Forever registrations:
https://epik.com/blog/forever-domain-registrations.html
It comes with theft protection.
Overall, our record for protecting registrants is among the highest in the industry.
Keep it classy folks!
This place is scamming people with registering domains that are obviously infringing on a trademark. And then when you tell them about it, they charge you to transfer the domain to you. How is this any different from the emails I get from asian registrars and domain slamming?
@ Ken Cole – In some cases, we get involved in ombudsman work to get domains into logical hands. Usually if the logical end registrant is involved, we may encourage the registrant to hand it over without fee. This case you are referring to here is almost certainly a case where someone claims to represent the logical registrant but is not in fact the registrant. As for the nominal fee, it is simply a backorder fee, where the domain is deleted by the registrant, and the new registrant is on deck to receive the deleted name. It is all quite orderly if you ask me.
I’m late to the party / this discussion. Recently started dabbling in domains thru godaddy. In googling learned epik offers a leasing option (gd does not). Again, I am late to the party. Definitely buying future domains thru epik. My first purchases were seemless. The cso was very helpful, especially in trying to get domains transferred. Wish I started out with them.
@Andrew – Awesome. Welcome to Epik. The Epik domain leasing option is solid and keeps improving. Many domain owners are missing out on this important monetization strategy.
Epik.com is one of the best domain companies out there! Honest good people, super support and they really respect the customer and put the customer on the first place! Can recommend this company to anyone else. Keep it up!!
Recently starting using Epik for email hosting. As of right now I feel like we have made a big mistake. If you’ve read this far I say go with a more expensive option where your small business is less likely to be victimized by their lack of customer service.
Our emails just stopped working on Friday and we have no access to them whatsoever, from the admin or user side. I have spent time chatting and on the phone with support and our issue just keeps getting transferred. Now it is waiting for a developer to review as they are backlogged. Here’s a summary of what has happened and quite frankly it is ridiculous.
1. Emails stopped working, no one could login. Contacted support on Friday and was told the tech team needed to review but was already gone for the weekend. I was supposed to be contacted Monday morning with an update.
2. Monday morning came and no word for the tech team. They failed to reach out to me so I called to get an update. I was told there was a comment on the ticket that said our account was suspended because our service hadn’t been paid for. This was false. I had the customer service rep on the phone look into this. I was on hold for over 20 minutes while they investigated. I was told a supervisor was looking at it right then and they would contact me with more information via email.
3. An hour and a half goes by, no word. I figured this should be pretty urgent, especially if the client has nothing to do with the problem. I call again to see what they’ve found out. Absolutely nothing. Our ticket is waiting to be looked a by a developer. They’ll get back to us by the end of the day today, or tomorrow.
I’m not sure to who it is acceptable that a paying customer goes without email access for 4-5 days. We have yet to receive answers on why this has happened. Why our emails just stopped working or why our account was suspended when our bill was paid on 8/18/18 for service 8/23/18 through 9/23/18. Now I’m being told it looks like more than one email host is registered to our domain due to a glitch in their system. No thank you, we haven’t made any changes that would be interfering or causing this.
I want answers and access to the messages currently in our mailboxes and then we will be switching our email hosting, if not domain registrar all together.
I am replying to my original comment about my customer service experience with Epik to provide additional commentary.
There are two important things to note about my situation:
1. Once getting in contact with Rob, the founder/CEO of Epik, our issue was fixed and emails were working again within 5 minutes.
2. After further investigation, Epik determined that our issue was due to a glitch when we set up hosting services which caused it to submit for our domain twice. This is why the support staff had difficulty finding out what caused the problem as they had never seen it happen before.
What matters most is that now our issue is resolved. While it took longer than expected, Rob has done everything he can to correct things in a timely manner moving forward. The issue we came across is unusual and unlikely to happen to other users. I’m sure the support staff is proficient in addressing and solving common tickets and will now know how to handle this unusual issue should it arise again in the future. We have decided to continue hosting with Epik.
You INDUSTRY folks KNOW me…
I’ve been around for decades…
Here’s how I feel about Epik.com
::: read below :::
I was with another hosting company for more than 15 years and happy there…
I moved everything from there to Epik.com in 2017…
I am HAPPY at Epik.com
~Patricia Kaehler
You Know me FROM:
DomainBELL.com / DropGrabs.com / BellsDeals.com / BlingersClub. com
oh and I also LOVE NamePros.com
Thanks Patricia. Appreciate the kind words. Always a pleasure to work with you. As the company has continued to grow over the years, and as we expanded our team, the buck does still stop here for the inevitable but rare scenario that a customer experience falls short of the mark. I am even known to take chats, calls and support tickets. That practice of “walking the factory floor” never stopped even as we added talented and diligent people along the way.
This being “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly,” I have some points to address and a major problem to be resolved before I can fully recommend Epik. While shopping for domain registrars for a client, Epik’s name came up naturally, especially in light of Epik’s decision to register a controversial website currently in the public eye (I won’t mention the website, it’s not important to this discussion, but you’ve probably heard of it).
The issue I am bringing to light is that I have the impression that Epik’s adherence to their own terms and conditions is somewhat lax. I don’t mean that it is due to maliciousness on their part, but this can be a serious concern. In this instance, Epik’s Universal TOS, as it stands today, explicitly prohibits “…profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, adult content, nude, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information.” This was important to my client, being a small publisher of Christian literature. However, upon further research, I found that such material is commonplace on the website mentioned above and is, indeed, permitted by the TOS of the unnamed website. Granted, this material is generated by the users of the website in question, that allows “legal pornography.” Nevertheless, this is a clear violation of Epik’s existing TOS.
I inquired Epik about this inconsistency. To their credit, they got back to me very quickly, even after a holiday weekend, and explained that yes, this is a violation of their TOS, but they “will be revising the Epik TOS document so that it protects free speech more broadly, including legal pornography. That update remains a pending task.”
To be clear, it matters not a whit to me personally whatever content is deemed offensive. But to my clients for whom I develop websites it can be very important. The website in question has been hosted by Epik for around three weeks now and has, technically, been in violation of Epik’s own TOS during that time without consequence. This seeming arbitrariness is concerning. Terms of service exist to protect both the registrar and the consumer. In my experience, you can’t play “loosey goosey” with TOS.
And this is somewhat of a shame, since I generally hear good things about Epik in other regards. But I would caution potential customers if they are consider Epik as a registrar in light of this lack of attentiveness to their own TOS. I’m not a lawyer, but I consulted with our legal team. They said, “hard pass” based on this matter alone.
When Epik received a message from Jason Palmeri, I was the person who responded to him. Jason got straight to the point: Gab.com, he said, is in violation of our Terms of Service. He and/or his associates had canvassed Gab.com and compiled 16 links to porn. The implication, presumably, is that Epik must ban Gab.com.
Why, we may well ask, was Jason digging through someone else’s website looking for porn? Merely to report it to a registrar (which he doesn’t even use) as a violation of the registrar’s TOS? Obviously, this was a tactic to force the shutdown of a controversial website.
For those of you who don’t already know, GoDaddy ejected the domain Gab.com once the site began generating controversy. They cited a TOS violation. Every domain name needs a registrar, obviously; and so Gab.com was transferred to Epik. (Hosting meanwhile is provided by some other company.)
Predictably, the public campaign to silence and de-platform Gab has pursued the domain from GoDaddy to Epik. My coworkers have been unfairly attacked as “Nazis” and “scumbags”, merely because the domain Gab.com has been permitted to exist. Folks, that’s what registrars are for. The proper role of a domain registrar isn’t to censor online content. Rather, it’s to facilitate domain registrations.
Jason’s message to Epik – as I saw right away – was a disingenuous stunt, a Trojan horse. Though he feigned concern about porn at Gab, his obvious intent was to force Epik to eject Gab.com (as GoDaddy had done) or else to publish a “Gotcha” hit piece, declaring that Epik is untrustworthy. Which, of course, is what Jason immediately did, posting here on TheDomains the very next day. Surprise, surprise.
Ask yourself: How likely is Jason’s story, really? Supposedly his client, “a small publisher of Christian literature”, is now “shopping for registrars”. And so Jason has been tasked with reviewing MULTIPLE registrars. Now, one might think that a comparison of prices and services would be the natural way to choose a registrar. Not so! For Jason and his client, it’s of the utmost importance to investigate ALL the content of ALL the websites found on ALL the domains registered at ALL of these various registrars.
That means they must scour thousands upon thousands of sites looking for PORN – quite an odd fixation for a christian book publisher, I must say. Or perhaps this compulsion goes beyond porn. If Jason is to be believed, then he and his client are huge fans of the legalese in TOS documents. Not only do they read them in search of risks based on their own behavior. No, they investigate the registrar itself to see if the registrar is enforcing its rules against ALL of the registrars’ other customers. Jason is therefore the quintessence of the busybody or the “nosy neighbor”. He and his client must ensure that any candidate registrar has crossed all its “i”s and dotted all its “t”s prior to doing business with them.
In that case, the research involved in choosing a registrar is even broader. Jason must search not just for porn but for ANY content on ANY site that violates ANY of provisions in ANY the registrar’s TOS. That’s a lot of work prior to registering a domain, don’t you think? One could easily spend a full year on such a research project. But I guess that’s why Jason’s clients pick Jason. He is the hardest working man on the planet. Bravo!
It’s not a coincidence that Jason’s investigation is laser-focused on Gab. A more natural explanation of Jason’s behavior would be this: Jason dislikes Gab and wants to see it de-platformed at Epik as it was at GoDaddy, based on an infraction of the TOS. And so Jason begins researching Epik’s TOS to look for clauses that Gab might be violating, which he can leverage for an ultimatum or a “gotcha”. Noticing that Epik’s TOS contain a broad prohibition on adult content, Jason then goes directly to Gab.com and begins gathering his 16 porn links. Immediately he writes to Epik, rubbing his hands together in gleeful expectation of the trap he’s about to spring.
I could sense Jason’s disappointment when I deprived him of his anticipated “Gotcha”. You see, Epik’s TOS is overly broad and due for an update. In fact, I had already advocated for and received approval for a revision, weeks before Jason contacted us. As I explained:
“Both Gab and adult websites publish content that many deem offensive – albeit for different reasons. Our goal, as I understand it, is to allow domains to be registered – even if they publish offensive content – on the basis of free speech, personal responsibility, registrar neutrality, and due process. The criterion is legality.”
“Permitting Gab implies permitting adult content. Banning adult content implies banning Gab. After all, it’s hard to argue on free-speech grounds that rabid anti-semitism should be permitted whereas consensual nudity should be prohibited.”
“That was my argument, and our CEO concurred that the TOS as currently written are not a good reflection of Epik’s position. We simply haven’t published a revision to the TOS yet.”
Nevertheless, Jason had invested energy in concocting this Trojan Horse of his. And even if his “Gotcha” moment is somewhat deflated, he was bent on publishing his hit piece no matter what.
I don’t know whether Jason is lying about his christian publisher client. Or about having “consulted with [his] legal team”. But even if he does have a “legal team” and a client, it’s very hard to believe his lawyers reviewed this matter during the night – between my response to him and his rushed post here at TheDomains. Really, that strains credulity. Was his attorney awakened at 2 a.m. by an emergency call asking for a declaration against a registrar that Jason’s client doesn’t even use, on the basis of Epik allowing some members of Gab.com to publish adult material? Yeah, sure.
Nice try, Jason. In a sense, I prefer the direct attacks by members of the public who have called us Nazis and supporters of murderers. They’re wrong. But I have more respect for their sincerity than for sneaky pretense.
All this faux concern about Epik enforcing its TOS against some other customer is pretty hard to swallow. Why would a registrar enforce TOS that it is already planning to change? In any case, companies are not under any obligation to ruthlessly enforce every provision of their contracts or policies. The customer agrees not to violate the rules, but the company is not required to ban every customer based on every violation, however small. No, these documents exist to give us the OPTION to crack down on serious abuse – for example, phishing, spam, child pornography, etc. Violations are “prosecuted” on a case-by-case basis. This is common sense. Traffic cops don’t pull you over ever time you go slightly over the speed limit. On the contrary, they apply the law judiciously for the most serious infractions.
Obviously, the real issue here is Gab.com – whether a website that publishes offensive content should be allowed to exist. Should the platform as a whole be judged by messages posted by some of its members? That seems a dangerous precedent. I, for one, despise the racist content published by some Gab members. Nevertheless, I believe in free speech and the open circulation of ideas as the most efficient way for the truth to prevail. So I’d prefer to see even the most vile opinions be posted in a public forum where views can be challenged, criticized, and debated – instead of on some echo chamber of the dark web, where extreme views are reinforced and radicalized.
For that matter, the people I disagree with probably despise me as a “globalist”, since my politics and worldview is in diametric opposition to theirs. At various times in human history, different factions and ideologies have been in power. Sometimes the people we oppose are in charge, and they will want to censor us. It’s easy to forget , when we’re in the majority, that sometimes we may find ourselves a minority subject to censorship too. So the real question is whether free speech – including the ability to register a domain and publish controversial opinions online – is a value worth protecting.
These days, few companies are willing to stand up to public pressure; and they will jettison a customer to save their brand. Even people who disapprove of Gab can recognize this trend as worrisome. Without domain registrars that support due process, neutrality, personal accountability, free speech would be stillborn in the online era.
Right on, Joseph. Rob is fortunate to have you at Epik.
True that.
The industry does not see as much of Joseph’s thoughtful punditry these days. That is because Joseph has been heads-down battening down the hatches at Epik with the precision of the naval submarine operator that he was years before he joined the domain industry and then landed at Epik.
If anyone is wondering why Epik runs more and more like a well-oiled machine these days, it is because of quiet diligence from people like Joseph, who with little fanfare have been walking the talk — doing the right thing even when nobody was looking!
As for this latest Social Justice Warrior’s post — complete with faux virtue signaling — I would not give it much heed. Epik is not the ideal place for this content. The adversary knows my Christian bias, and tried to pull some classic textbook Saul Alinsky nonsense. People are wise to it.
Hello, Joseph.
I understand, considering the controversy surrounding Gab, your defensiveness regarding Epik’s decision to register Gab.com. However, I believe that this may have colored your interpretation of my inquiry into Epik’s practices with its TOS. It seemed to me that our email exchange was very civil and you answered my questions succintly and with courtesy, which speaks positively on you and Epik. I appreciate that. At the same time, it must be made clear that I never requested that Gab be shut down for this violation of Epik’s TOS. If my initial email was curt, I apologize. But to my mind I was simply presenting some facts and wished to hear Epik’s point of view.
As to the veracity of my “story,” as you put it, it frankly doesn’t matter. I do a job for my clients and get paid so I can pay my bills and feed my family, like anyone else. It’s not so hard to believe that I work for a living, but whether I do or do not is beside the point. Our legal team
consists of my sister-in-law and a paralegal. A small team, to be sure, but a team nonetheless. Again, whether or not you believe me is unimportant. As to why I am posting to The Domains, well, isn’t this where we discuss this sort of thing? So let’s discuss. Nothing suspicious about that.
It is also unsurprising that I would look more thoroughly into researching Epik considering this recent publicity. In fact, I’d be negligent in my duty to my clients if I did not thoroughly research these matters.
On a personal note, I do take offense at Joseph characterizing me as “rubbing his [my] hands together in gleeful expectation of the trap he’s [I’m] about to spring.” My initial email to you may have been to the point, but there was nothing untoward about it. Finding the offending links I provided to you was as easy as typing a short line in the URL bar of my browser. It’s not like it took the NSA to find those links. You state, “That means they must scour thousands upon thousands of sites looking for PORN – quite an odd fixation for a christian book publisher, I must say.” Odd for a Christian book publisher, yes, but they don’t do that. That’s why they hired me. And if you’ve been on the internet at all in the past twenty-five years or so you’ll know that porn is one of the easiest things to find. In light of this, I find it a bit disingenuous for you to claim that you weren’t “aware that Gab members publish adult content until today when you pointed it out,” as you stated in your email exchange with me. You posted your response to me at length, but you left that part out. Feel free to post my initial email if you wish.
And again, Joseph, I feel you are taking this entirely the wrong way. I understand your defensiveness. I get it. Epik has been under attack. You’re entitled to be defensive. But the fact of the matter is that Epik has issues with TOS. I know you said that a change is pending, nevertheless the current TOS is dated 2012. It’s six years old. Epik has been hosting Gab for almost a month now, in violation of the TOS. This is undeniable (you didn’t even deny it, Joseph, in your emails to me). Which seems pretty lax on Epik’s part. Just own it.
But it doesn’t matter to me how Epik does it’s business, or whether or not it hosts Gab. I emailed an inquiry to Epik and Joseph responded. And I’m posting here to discuss. There is no “attack” or “conspiracy” here, however much you wish to believe it. I will say, though, that this discussion has been valuable to me in helping me make informed decisions on who to do business with. It’s not the mistakes that a company makes that necessarily matters, but rather how they deal with those mistakes.
And finally, Joseph, if the tone of my emails seemed antagonistic to you I do apologize. I don’t believe they were and if the entirety of the thread is shown it will be obvious. Nevertheless, I’m not perfect and email, after all, is not the most nuanced mode of communication. I do have to say that I am somewhat disappointed by your response here, Joseph, based on the professionalism of our email exchange.
I think the point I brought up about Epik’s TOS issue is a valid one and worthy of discussion. I’m not inclined to argue about it, but if people want to discuss I’ll be watching this thread. I wish you, Rob and Epik all the best. I really do. But if you start attacking those who might one day be friends you might find yourself one day with no friends.
Best,
Jason
Jason,
Joseph will get back to you when the ToS review has been completed.
I will however take this opportunity to address the Christian theme that you seem to be pressing on in this thread as the basis for seeking the expulsion of one of more Epik clients whose content apparently offends you for reasons that I will not even try to understand.
Some specific comments on the Christian lens through which I see out content policy:
– Christians are told to love everyone. (Matthew 22:38, 1 John 4:7–8, etc).
– Christians are told to not judge anyone before the day of judgement (1 Corinthians 4:5)
– Christians are also told to lay hands suddenly on no man (1 Timothy 5:22)
– Christians are told to obey the law of the land (Romans 13).
– Christians are told to fear God not man (Matthew 10:28)
– Christians are told that the TRUTH will set them free. (John 8:32).
Based on these proof texts, I choose to govern Epik as follows:
– We are prepared to work with anyone that is engaged in lawful activity. We won’t judge anyone but we will enforce the law adjudicated by a competent court until a defendant is done appealing.
– We maintain a special compassion for publishers who are empowering the dissemination of incontrovertible truth and who build communities that invite truth and disprove fiction.
– We encourage small enterprise as long term basis for economic independence as this is a core basis for personal sovereignty, including the ability to sovereignly search for truth.
So, what is the predictable consequence of this principle-based position?
– Even though we welcome everyone engaged lawfully, people who share Epik’s views will self-select. Those who vehemently object to these views may also self-select out.
– Extremists and activists will be quick to test these positions. Indeed, we have already invited them to do so in order for Epik to demonstrate no bias.
– Intolerant extremists, from the left and right, will use all manner of intimidation, moral suasion, character assassination, and even threats of extra-judicial justice. I pray for all of these people but also will be quick to dispatch lawbreakers into the waiting arms of capable law enforcement.
I hope these points are clear. I further hope they serve as inspiration for a new generation of patriots who recognize that we are living at a time where censorship of the public internet is accelerating and that this is in no way a good thing in spite of the occasional side effects of those who abuse their right to free expression within the bounds of the law.
And regardless of who is actually paying you, I hope you will see the logic of our approach. My email is rob@epik.com — feel free to reach out.
Thanks for saying that “our email exchange was very civil and [i] answered [your] questions succinctly and with courtesy”. True.
“It’s not like it took the NSA to find those links.” Yes, porn is everywhere, as everybody knows. All the more bizarre that you were on a quest to find it. Why were you looking for porn on Gab.com in particular? That’s a strange way to register domains for a christian book seller. Let’s suppose (purely for the sake of argument) that your client really exists. Maybe they don’t want to do business with a registrar that permits adult content. Fine. In that case, you’d probably skip any registrar as soon as you found porn on 1 of the domains registered with them. Most registrars do permit adult content; so you’d have a lot of registrars to cross off your list. Best to move quickly.
But no. You’re asking us to believe that you began your review of various domain registrars by gathering 16 porn links from Gab.com; and you then went spontaneously to Erik’s TOS to read the fine print, where, by a stroke of luck, you found that adult content is covered, at which point you wrote to us quoting chapter and verse. Permit me to ask: How many other registrars did you review in this laborious way? How many porn links did you send them via email with oh-so-furrowed brow? Humor me with a list, please, of registrars you wrote to out of civic concern for the water-tightness of their TOS! It must be a very long list of porn URLs you sent them, since you found 16 links at Gab alone; and there are scads of porn websites multiplied by scads of registrars. There must be thousands of porn URLs in your list – all part of the due diligence for your client. As you say: “That’s why they hired me.” But, truly, I’d love to see the emails you sent to the other registrars. Care to share?
Preposterous. Anybody with common sense will understand that you began with a laser focus on Gab, then went to Epik’s TOS to look for possible violations that could be leveraged in a complaint, and only then went to Gab.com to gather your 16 porn links. Clearly the desired end result was a “Gotcha”.
Jason, I knew from the moment you contacted us that you were acting in bad faith, collecting material for a contrived public attack. No use pretending otherwise. It was transparent from the outset. Internally, I pointed out the game you were playing right away; and we were just waiting for the other shoe to drop – that is, for your silly “gotcha”. It arrived like clockwork the very next day.
Quote: “Epik has been hosting Gab for almost a month now, in violation of the TOS.” False. Epik does not host Gab. As I already explained to you above, another company is the host. Epik is simply the registrar for the domain Gab.com, which is held by Escrow.com (in some sort of financing deal, I believe).
Quote: “But the fact of the matter is that Epik has issues with TOS. I know you said that a change is pending, nevertheless the current TOS is dated 2012. It’s six years old. … Which seems pretty lax on Epik’s part. Just own it.” Yes, Jason, in the very first sentence of my very first email to you, I explained that we are already preparing a revision to the TOS. Most customers who hear that the solution is already in progress would be satisfied. However, you kept insisting, or at least hinting, that our TOS as currently written ought to be used against Gab – in spite of the fact that I had already told you that legal adult content is allowed at Epik. For someone who claims to have no ax to grind, your fixation seems very strange.
Be that as it may, I acknowledged the inconsistency frankly right away. We were already preparing a revision to the TOS. But because you consider the 16 porn links at Gab – or, rather, their inconsistency with a badly worded TOS document – to be of the utmost urgency, we have already revised that portion of the TOS to placate you. It now reads:
“You may not … publish, post, distribute, disseminate or link to any: (i) unlawful content, topic, material, or information, any of which are of an obscene, adult, nude, prurient, or indecent nature;”
We were already planning to revise the TOS, and it’s still a work in progress. But the 1 issue you were ostensibly concerned about has been addressed. If your concern really was the inconsistency between Epik’s practice (with respect to adult content) and the wording of our TOS, then you will be pleased to get closure. If, on the other hand, you were really seeking a “Gotcha” to use against Gab and/or Epik – as we all believe – then you will be dissatisfied with this result.
Let me correct a misunderstanding about TOS in general. Companies of all kinds have TOS in order to take action against infringing customers as the need arises and as they see fit. Generally action is taken only in egregious cases. Companies are NOT under some sort of obligation to punish every customer for any infringement, however minor. The TOS is like having a fire extinguisher: “Break glass in case of emergency.” If someone lights a cigarette, we’re not obligated to smash the window and drown him in a cloud of CO2. In this case, to push the metaphor a bit farther, the cigarette was lit in a designated smoking area.
Many people have written to Epik about Gab, ever since the domain was transferred to us. Some thank us for defending free speech. Some denounce us for providing a “home” for a website where racists feel free to speak. Generally even the people who are angry are sincere. But what I immediately disliked about your approach, Jason, was that it’s sneaky and disingenuous. There is no need to lay traps and publish “Gotcha” hit pieces. You are welcome to oppose the content published by some Gab members, or to oppose Gab’s very existence, or to criticize Epik for accepting Gab. But please do so openly, if you believe your viewpoint is right and if you have the courage of your convictions.
In my view, we need registrars that act as neutral service providers. Attacking Epik for allowing a domain to be registered is like attacking a gas station for allowing a racist to fill his gas tank, or a hotel for renting the racist a room. Some people will argue that denying resources to ideological opponents is appropriate in a no-holds-barred, ends-justify-the-means struggle. But it’s a slippery slope if domain registrars, gas stations, hotels, and other basic resource providers begin denying service to some segment of the population based on ideological differences.
For the record, I don’t agree with Rob calling you a “Marxist”. Labels aren’t helpful, since we can make our case just fine with reasoned arguments. And I would ask that TheDomains NOT remove your posts. I’m a free-speech absolutist. In the past, when TheDomains removed some of my posts, I criticized that decision, even though I’m friends with the people who run this site. And I’d feel the same way about your posts vanishing. Of course, TheDomains can do as they wish, since it’s their platform.
I will add, simply to preempt a misapprehension, that Epik’s position regarding free speech and due process is not a “right-wing” political stance, even if Rob Monster himself may share some conservative viewpoints. (Christianity, for example, is often pilloried.) Rob took the decision to accept Gab.com, but I support that fully. Personally I’ve been on the record about these issues – free speech and domain registration rights – for years, even before being hired at Epik. And my personal politics is “libtarded”, “globalist”, “socialist”, and fiercely anti-Trump. Indeed, this very blog (TheDomains) removed some of my posts during the 2016 election period because I was unabashedly political. Even though my views are diametrically opposed to the views that (I imagine) might be ascendant within Gab currently, free speech is worth protecting on principle. This principle is always under threat. Some on the left (e.g. Bill Maher) even worry that the value of free speech is in decline within the USA. Based on the attacks Epik has received for allowing Gab.com simply to be registered, I tend to agree.
Instead of attacking an opponent’s ability to speak or publish, why not correct what they say? Ideally, one would go where the discussion is taking place and respond directly. It takes guts to jump into the lion’s den. Much easier to banish offensive views. But driving white supremacists underground will only add to their sense of persecution, conspiracy, and martyrdom. The aura of martyrdom and the romance of being “underground rebels” will only attract disgruntled people to the alt-right narrative. Censorship is likely to backfire. Truth doesn’t need censorship. Truth wins by talking.
Love it, Joseph. My first time back to this thread in so long, after seeing a link to it on NamePros today. It happens I’ve also been noticing how we haven’t heard from you in the blogs for so long and was wondering why, and here you are. Not only have you masterfully exposed and dispensed with this nonsense here like Bruce Lee but you made me laugh so hard in the process. 🙂
Jason,
Joseph will get back to you when the ToS review has been completed.
I will however take this opportunity to address the Christian theme that you seem to be pressing on in this thread as the basis for seeking the expulsion of one of more Epik clients whose content apparently offends you for reasons that I will not even try to understand.
Some specific comments on the Christian lens through which I see out content policy:
– Christians are told to love everyone. (Matthew 22:38, 1 John 4:7–8, etc).
– Christians are told to not judge anyone before the day of judgement (1 Corinthians 4:5)
– Christians are also told to lay hands suddenly on no man (1 Timothy 5:22)
– Christians are told to obey the law of the land (Romans 13).
– Christians are told to fear God not man (Matthew 10:28)
– Christians are told that the TRUTH will set them free. (John 8:32).
Based on these proof texts, I choose to govern Epik as follows:
– We are prepared to work with anyone that is engaged in lawful activity. We won’t judge anyone but we will enforce the law adjudicated by a competent court until a defendant is done appealing.
– We maintain a special compassion for publishers who are empowering the dissemination of incontrovertible truth and who build communities that invite truth and disprove fiction.
– We encourage small enterprise as long term basis for economic independence as this is a core basis for personal sovereignty, including the ability to sovereignly search for truth.
So, what is the predictable consequence of this principle-based position?
– Even though we welcome everyone engaged lawfully, people who share Epik’s views will self-select. Those who vehemently object to these views may also self-select out.
– Extremists and activists will be quick to test these positions. Indeed, we have already invited them to do so in order for Epik to demonstrate no bias.
– Intolerant extremists, from the left and right, will use all manner of intimidation, moral suasion, character assassination, and even threats of extra-judicial justice. I pray for all of these people but also will be quick to dispatch lawbreakers into the waiting arms of capable law enforcement.
I hope these points are clear. I further hope they serve as inspiration for a new generation of patriots who recognize that we are living at a time where censorship of the public internet is accelerating and that this is in no way a good thing in spite of the occasional side effects of those who abuse their right to free expression within the bounds of the law.
And regardless of who is actually paying you, I hope you will see the logic of our approach. My email is rob@epik.com — feel free to reach out.
Regards,
Rob Monster
Founder/CEO
Epik.com
Hello, Rob.
I appreciate your response. But again, you and Joseph are misunderstanding me.
1) I am not pressing a “Christian theme.” I mentioned it initially simply because I’m working for a small Christian publisher and it is a concern of theirs. If I had known this was going to be a point of contention I would not even have mentioned it. For what it’s worth, I had no idea about your personal religious belief and, frankly, it doesn’t matter to me. The point is irrelevant to this discussion.
2) It is irrelevant whether or not content on any Epik-hosted sites offends me. I never expressed that any such content offends me. Nor did I express that I believe any of Epik’s sites should be booted.
3) I appreciate your explanation of your principles, but frankly it was unnecessary. All of that was also irrelevant to this discussion.
The only point of relevance here is whether or not we can trust Epik to stand by their TOS. My point was purely based on that– professional accountability and nothing else. If I may be honest, I am getting the impression that Epik “doth protest too much, methinks,” to paraphrase. It’s almost like you’re trying to convince yourself as much as you are me. You don’t need to explain your position on religion, free speech or anything else to me. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but it’s not pertinent. The only issue here is Epik’s lack of care with its TOS.
With that, I think I’m done. I honestly didn’t think it would be such a big fuss, just something important to talk about. A simple “yeah, we screwed up, but we’ll fix it and do better” would have sufficed.
I wish you and Joseph and Epik all the best. I hope you succeed in all you do. As for me, I’ll take my business elsewhere.
Best,
Jason
Great.
You can run along now and let your (Marxist) sponsor know that you did your best! As for your business, we both know that it was never to be had. Nice try. We’ll also invite the editors of this blog to remove your off-topic comment, along with Epik’s rebuttals, knowing that you were just grandstanding in the first place.
Perhaps you were surprised that a reputable company actually stands for something that your (Marxist) sponsors hate: FREE SPEECH on independent websites where citizens engage in a SEARCH FOR TRUTH despite the determined and coordinated efforts to DE-PLATFORM them.
In the meantime, thanks for the opportunity to turn your (Marxist) lemons into (Epik) lemonade. And even though I don’t know who you are, you can be assured that there really is a God in heaven who absolutely does know who you are. So, with that, I simply say GOD BLESS YOU!
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
For anyone who does not know what these comments today were really about and the real reason why people like “Jason” hate Gab so much, I refer you to Epik’s blog post here: https://epik.com/blog/why-epik-welcomed-gab-com.html and invite you to check out Gab.com on their own. Epik posts here: https://gab.com/epik . And if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, read “Rules for Radicals” by Saul Alinsky. It is the classic leftist handbook. “Jason” was applying tactic #4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” It is a favorite of the leftists like “Jason”.
Jason or whoever you are, in case you are thinking otherwise, you are not even within a million miles of being as clever as you apparently think you are. You are also a million times more transparent than you apparently think you are not (though how you could is beyond me). In fact, it’s a marvel you could think you could pull off something like this or accomplish even anything at all with it, even though I know what leads a person to think such a thing. However, I also know you are a tad “impressive” in some aspects of your attempt when it comes to today’s “common consumption,” so sadly enough people can often be deceived by this kind of “thing” that you do and it has been necessary to address as has been done effectively by Rob and Joseph here.
So Rob called you one thing and I love his Alinsky reference, and Joseph took you apart like Bruce Lee – in fact I couldn’t even type that without laughing again. You also make me laugh with things like trying to make them and Epik out to be the bad guys, and how you tried to make Joseph out to be so “defensive, defensive, defensive, defensive” (LOL).
I will call you a “serpent” then. 🙂 If I even believed for one moment you actually had the clients you allude to I would even refer you to a few parts of the Bible pertaining to lying, treachery and such and ask you to review it with them, but we can just pretend that I did.
And if everyone will excuse me now, I need to go review all the registrars I’m using to see if any of their client’s domains have any sites or content which links to Amazon since all sorts of objectionable and reprehensible material is available there.
Wow, John, You’re a bit late to the discussion, a discussion I left a long time ago. So, a couple of things: 1) Joseph may be very capable, but he’s no Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee has no comparison. I think we can all agree with that, and 2) this discussion seems to have abandoned the point/counterpoint early on and I don’t think it is productive. I’m only commenting now because I get the impression that you’re trying to stick it to me personally for some reason. I brought up a single point of contention and instead of a courteous discussion I am attacked by Rob and I guess he has fanboys like you now, John. If you have something useful to contribute then I am all ears. If you would rather continue with juvenile diatribes then feel free, but just know that I have little time for such nonsense. You can use your own time as you wish.
No Jason, you’re the latecomer. That’s me up above at Feb 27, 2017 at 8:26 AM and you came the better part of two years later to do your thing. Epik and everything about it is just as great and greater as it was then, and we’re fortunate to have companies and people like that who champion due process, client rights and the rights and principles this country is founded upon.
I thought you’d probably come back after I posted, however. I’m well familiar with people who love to double down despite already being thoroughly exposed and extinguished.