If you’re considering registering any 6 number Ccom domains (NNNNNN.com) I’m going calling “Last Call’.
As of publication less than 8,000 NNNNNN.com remain available for registration.
The possible number of 6 numbered .com domains is 1,000,000 including the dreaded number 4 and zero.
We would expect all of these domain name to be registered by the end of the weekend.
There is a huge run on numbered and Letter domains in .com, .net, .xyz, .top and .win over the last couple of months.
.Com, .Net .XYZ, .Top, .Win and now even .Org and .Biz are increasing their net daily registrations for each extension and most are coming from letters and numbered domains ( Net domain registrations are the number of new registrations over the number of deleted domains).
I’m tweeting the daily domain gains each day so if somehow you’re not following us on Twitter our account is @thedomains
and that is news!
Looks like less than 3k left
Which domain will be the final nail in the 6-digit coffin?
Any guesses?
My poor memory ability cannot go beyond 3 digit.This random multi digit .com fever reminds me of the tulip flower fever in the old days. Yes, just my feeling.
About the middle of last month I had a list of around 80k NNNNNN coms available all contained a 4.Two days ago anything with a double number was gone.
Today I checked all CHIP LLLL.xyz’s are taken.
I’m going to jump to NNNNNNNNNNN.coms and NNNNN.mobi’s to get a head start.
Now they are ALL gone! 🙂
Looks like they are all gone now.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/1-000-000-all-possible-combinations-of-six-numbers-com-are-all-registered.891360/#post-5099536
I just regged three today.
I can tell you that 1 month ago 500k of them were available. That’s a nice bonus for Verisign.
May be 1,000,000 6N.com, but those without 4and 0 only amout to 262,144.
A quarter of a million and you use ‘only’?
I have 18 NNNN.org .
I do hope the prices will go on the rise.
None left anymore as of writing this 😉
We have been tracking the 6 Number .com market closely. 30 days ago the average sale price for a 6N with no 0 or 4 was $69 – $79 on Namejet with about a 90% sell through rate. HIgher prices were seen on DropCatch and Pheenix. Two weeks ago the average sale price jumped to $109. So far, for the first week of November, the average sale price is now $173 on Namejet (again, higher on DropCatch and Pheenix) with many outlier sales well above $200. This does NOT include ultra premium combinations with triple repeating numbers or ending in double 8 or anything like that. Those sales were discounted from average sale prices.
A month ago I posted on this blog that I predicted the average sale price of a 6N.com would be $500 within 3-6 months (with no 4 or 0). I think it will happen even sooner than that. When I posted that statement there were still over 100,000 6 number .com domains available for registration.
One domainer already flipped his portfolio of 20,000 6N.com domains for $2 million+ to a large Chinese buyer. Probably one of the fastest creations of wealth in modern history.
Pretty good deal for the seller imo. Carry costs of this portfolio are around 150.000 a year so prices need to increase 8% annualy just to pay carry
Andrew, Could I quote you on my blog with the last paragraph of your post?
Not many people can go out and fund 20,000 dot com domains at registration cost to make a $2 million flip. This would cost the domain owner 6 figures. This approach is basically gambling.
These number domains don’t impress me. Sure, they make sense because every number has some meaning. Better to go after domains that have a real explanation for their worth.
How in the world would we develop a domain on a NNNNNN dot com? We can’t. The only real value is to the Chinese buyer. Why speculate just because they are buying up all of these domain names?
Speculating is not domain investing. It is taking a risk to lose a ton of time and money. Don’t see the value jumping on this NNN movement. The only real winners are Verisign and the seller.
This entire NNN movement is unfolding to become the best comedy movie. Domain investors reacting because others are speculating. They have no clue why their numbers are selling and what they signify?
Chinese know what numbers mean to them. Some good, some bad. They view these numbers, sequences and combinations as good and bad.
IMO, you have a better chance at buying domain names that make sense. Don’t lose out on speculating busy because a few are getting lucky flipping their NNN portfolios. Worst advice I ever heard is to go invest in something that doesn’t make any sense to us. Past sales don’t always dictate value.
It’ll be 10 times harder to do a “buyout” of all 7-digit dot-com domain names! I don’t see that happening, unless Verisign loses its monopoly and dot-com wholesale costs drop to $2/yr with a competitive tender.
I don’t see a buyout of 7N; the numbers are just too large. However, the triples, patterns, and lucky combos will go fast now.
The ones to watch now (in terms of price increase) are the patterned 8N and 9N, flanked by 888.
George – I disagree. I think that the entire western domain market is tremendously underestimating the Chinese domain market. The domain wholesale aftermarket is still relatively very small. In any market where there is room for a single Billionaire to come in and easily buyup all remaining liquid inventory, there is room for tremendous growth. I think that all premium short .com domain names are currently undervalued with a long term perspective (5-10 years) by a factor of 10.
If you look at current wholesale price of 2, 3 & 4 letter .com domains & 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 number .com domains – the combined wholesale value of remaining inventory is just about $1 Billion. In the scheme of things, that is not that much… On a micro economic level the rise of short domains has been blindingly fast. But from a Macro standpoint, we may still be in the infancy of an evolving efficient market.
A billionaire that will lose millions buying number domains. Ask these questions.
Who will their market represent? Who is going to make them a profit? Why hold these numeric domain names? What can they do for this buyer? How will this buyer flip these domains? Develop these domains? Do what with these numbers?
Common sense to ask what the buyer is doing with these domains. How in the world can it make sense purchasing 20,000 6N dot com to take a huge risk. This buyer would probably do this if they had a buyer already in mind. A smart investor wouldn’t take a high risk to make a large flip.
This seller only invested $150-$200K to make a 10X flip. How is this the best creation of wealth?
Your discussion to convince people to invest in numeric domains is weak. If all people look to numbers, then this leaves the door open to generic domains.
Please, everyone, go after the numbers. Less competition to acquire real words that have real meanings.
Congratulations, one million more unused domains being traded around like Pokemon cards! 😀
Should that matter ? Rosener wrote someone flipped his 20,000 Pokemon cards for $2 million. This is about making money nothing else.
@Domain Shame,
“This is about making money nothing else.”
Beg to differ.
“[S]omeone flipped his 20,000 Pokemon cards for $2 million”
Collectibles are bought and sold for certain reasons. Gold bullion or mutual funds for completely different reasons. Domains have traditionally been bought and sold with the idea that they’ll eventually be developed into websites or used in online marketing – which is a third kind of reason. Sometimes domains are bought as collectibles. Sometimes as digital bullion.
“Should that matter?”
If you care about market prices, then it’s dangerous not to examine the different reasons people buy. They’re not all equally consistent over time.
I think it’s safe to say that the guy that sold his 20,000 domain names did it for one thing, money.
Maybe. Never heard of him before.
When you said “This is about making money nothing else”, I interpreted the word “This” as domaining in general.
Is there any other reason that we all slave at our computers going through lists of domains and auctions to trade domain names, other than money? Aren’t we all just trying to make money? If you are doing it for another purpose than you are probably losing money and should quit and seek counseling for self destructive behavior. If you are implying that making money is a bad thing or evil, then I’ll go Ayn Rand on your ass!
@Andrew Rosener,
Because my goals differ from yours I must quit my job and seek counseling? What an arrogant prick!
Money isn’t the only reason people work, my friend. If money is Andrew Rosener’s sole motivation for showing up at his job every day, then that’s fine. No, money isn’t evil. But I do pity someone who finds no value in what he does with such a large portion of his life other than accumulating money.
Worse, you’ve declared me insane because I find satisfaction in what I do apart from just money. And that betrays a singular lack of imagination and shallowness of character.
@Andrew
To make money is not the sole reason. To provide valuable information to make a difference online can represent another reason to acquire domains.
It is easier to develop descriptive domains than brandable domains. People will likely visit descriptive domains, which cost little no marketing to promote.
What if I say that a specific domain with no marketing budget is responsible for changing the landscape of a billion dollar industry? Would you believe that statement?
In the future, that domain with all its content will make a massive flip. Revenue, information, original content and domain name combined provide real worth.
To suggest that we’re all in this to make money is an amaterur statement. Maybe you as a millionaire domain investor and company owner is out to make money. It makes sense.
However, others can make money as a side gig while acquiring descriptive domains to provide valuable information to make a huge difference in a particular space. Moral value translates into universal wealth. Chase morality with wisdom to make ethical gains.
“One domainer already flipped his portfolio of 20,000 6N.com domains for $2 million+ to a large Chinese buyer. Probably one of the fastest creations of wealth in modern history.”
@Andrew – Are you using this as an example that others should attempt to replicate?
If that unnamed domainer sold these 6N domains with a $100 price tag on average, it’s safe to assume that he hand-registered the lot, therefore he was an early adopter acting on a tip.
Or, perhaps, he was a participant of a strategy to generate – from scratch – artificial demand for these domains that noone else had registered for 20 consecutive years.
Whichever it is, the portfolio buyer will have to unload these at more than $100 a pop. To make that happen, the same hype must be perpetuated: that investors in China are somehow dying to get hold of every number in the universe at ever-increasing prices.
Acro – I’m simply stating the facts I’ve seen and my opinion of where it will go. Take it for what you will but don’t be sour grapes because you missed out.
Will this trend continue infinitely? of course not. But the bull is running and there are no current signs of a slow down or any apparent reason for the music to stop playing. Many will choose to sit this dance out and that’s fine. Perhaps even rational. But fortunes are being made daily right now and the proof is in the pudding.
We just traded 400 six number .com domains for a super premium 3 letter .com: Pug.com
I can sure as fuck tell you that you can not trade your pokemon cards for Pug.com!
@Andrew – The notion that my educated opinion is somehow the result of “sour grapes” or having “missed out” is rather silly and incorrect.
I’ve been following short domains (emphasis on short) since 2001, and have bought, sold and still hold a fair share of every “coin” domain representing opportunities: CCC/NNN/LL/LLL/LLLL com/net/org.
However, as many others have said, this new game of numbers e.g. (6N/7N/8N) is being hyped by those who created it from scratch. It’d be interesting to see who owns large portfolios of those tokens/chips and place these acquisitions/registrations on a timeline of appearance/promotion in the general domain news. That should reveal a lot, don’t you think?
Congrats on Pug, so you spent 400 x $9 = $36k for a fair priced LLL .com. My question is, what will the buyer sell these 400 6N’s at, WITHOUT the continuation of the hype? You said there are no signs of a market slow down – I see no slow down of hyping either.
@Acro – wasn’t looking to pick a fight amigo. But we have a very limited interest in the 6N .com market. The notion that I am just “continuing the hype” is way off base! I am nobody in this market. We own a total of maybe 500 six number .com domains (out of 1 million!). I think the issue is that you are calling it hype. It’s fact. It’s happening. 1 million six number .com domains were registered in a short period of time. At LEAST $8 million+++ was spent registering those domains. That is real money. That money is making money. I am watching with amazement, keeping track, taking notes and hopefully learning. So far what I have learned is NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE CHINESE. NEVER.
Just because you or I can’t explain it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
@Andrew – Naturally, I addressed the issue to make it clear that I’ve neither “sour grapes” or “missed out” on any opportunities. Just because I disagree on the direction and assessments of this alleged trend, doesn’t mean I’m less informed.
I prefer to analyze data based on who actually owns such domains, and I’m glad to hear that your excitement about this type of investments is based on personal assessments.
As investments of any type are very personal, blanket statements of buy/do not buy are equal in value.
There is an underlying sensation that when important domain industry figures such as yourself endorse the “buy” sentiment, this fact alone tags them as a safe, secure, repeatable investment.
Again, nothing personal and definitely not instigating a fight of any kind. I respect your sales track record and you personally, and my opinion on the trends of this market – as far as the underlying motives go – are more conservative.
See you at NamesCon.
Andrew,
You’re a brilliant salesman, a shrewd self promoter, and an experienced domain trader. But this argument of yours is thin as Kleenex; any sneeze blows it to bits!
This is your argument: People are spending money; therefore nobody is hyping what they buy.
How on EARTH does people spending money prove the non-existence of promotional hype? The whole goal of hype would be to get people spending money, after all. This is like saying that a forest fire proves there was no spark and no wind.
Andrew, remember the housing bubble? Yes, people spent money – lots of money. And why? Because hype drove people to buy, sell, and invest in very risky mortgage products. According to you, though, there was no hype then either. Money changed hands. Therefore it’s “real”. Therefore there’s no such thing as hype.
Look up the tulip craze. People spent fortunes on tulips. Why? Definitely not hype. Can’t be. Real money was spent; therefore it wasn’t hype.
I’m not suggesting that the Chinese domain market is like either the tulip bubble or the housing bubble. Maybe it is; maybe it isn’t. Without strong evidence, I have no definite opinion.
But I AM saying that your argument is B.S.
@Joseph
Watch out for your Kleenex statement. You may get some opposition. Their tissue is known to hold a stream of discharge. 🙂
The housing market collapse happened because people who couldn’t afford to purchase an expensive home out of their reach could in fact move-in and that resulted in ballooned mortgage payments after 5 years. instead of constructing mortgage deals to benefit customers, banks structured deals that would increase volume of deals. Banks increased their risk. Customers benefitted from this financial assistance until their payments multiplied 5 years later.
Which service do you use to determine that 1MM 6 letter domains have been registered in a short period of time?
Theo 400 x $9 = $3,600
Interesting fact: Essentially, you traded 400 6N dot com to acquire a three character dot com dog domain name, which the origin of this dog is from China. 🙂
At least sour grapes make real money in Napa Valley and Sonoma. We can’t ferment 6N dot com in the U.S. domains to taste good.
The best soil allows grape vine roots to grab a hold of the soil. Planted firmly, the best possible grapes can thrive under the right conditions. Florida is way too humid to grow grapes. However, Napa and Sonoma in Northern California are ideal to grow grapes. Carefully fermented, these sour grapes can make the best wines on Earth.
N dot com domains are fermenting in China to make God knows what. How will this movement define the domain industry? What are these N domains going to do? Flip, flip, stall, lose.
Meant, We can’t ferment 6N dot com domains in the U.S. to taste good.
LOL 🙂
$3.6k
@Joseph – my comment was misplaced. I actually wasn’t even referring to you – the comment was pointed at “Domain Shame” (whoever that is). Meant no fowl to you my friend.
However, you bring up good points that I would like to address.
1. I already stated clearly that I think this may be a bubble. All I said was that it hasn’t peaked yet and there is a LOT of money to be made along the way. Ever heard the expression “A rising tide lifts all boats”?
2. There is a BIG difference between the scenarios you mentioned and the current Chinese domain frenzy. It’s called CREDIT. When I say people are spending money, real money, I mean just that. In the housing bubble and the tulip frenzy as well it is all about leverage. Credit. People were spending the bank’s money with zero down mortgages and highly leveraged trading positions.
3. The ONLY people who think this is “hype” are those looking from the outside in. You see, your and Acro’s dislike, misunderstanding or simple distrust of this new market could also be labeled as hype. After all, the Westerners investing in numeric domains are the minority, the dissidents. Perhaps it could be said that you have an agenda? Perhaps you aren’t very happy that the whole world is only interested in these obscure Chinese domains today and not whatever it is that you are holding? Nothing wrong with that! I feel the same way, except I took steps to rectify and got on board the train. Ask a Chinese investor if this is hype or real news. Ask one of the few western traders who are REALLY in the market. This market is driven by China, not you and not me. To think that I have the power to influence Chinese investors to register 1 million domain names is simply foolish. You don’t understand the dynamics at play. This is the greatest bull market in the history of domain names. Sounds like news to me.
You and Acro have got it all wrong my friend(s). When I saw the trend emerging (thanks to my friend Oliver Hoger) in the 6 number market, I told others. I suggested people register them. Very few people did, because like you (and I admit me too at the time), they thought it was a fad. A stupid thing that would pass by like Twerking. But it wasn’t. And now those domains are all worth 20X only 60 days later. Guess what? 60 days from now they will be worth 50X.
4. Lastly, since the World came off the gold standard we have been in a bubble. The bubble inflates and the bubble deflates but make no mistake we live in a continuous bubble. Our currency is worth nothing. Our goods are mis-priced (both overpriced and underpriced due to subsidies and other manipulations). The only value to be found in the world is productive assets (productive for whatever purpose). The World economy is reaching a tipping point. Digital assets are the future. I’m not saying long numeric domains are the back bone of that, but they are a sign of whats to come. This is only the beginning.
I may get proven wrong in the future and we may lose money or opportunity, and I’m fine with that. At least I put my money where my mouth is. There are only a few people on the planet as deep in the trenches as I and my team are, and this is my perspective. The rest of the noise is just heckling from the peanut gallery.
And for the record – please don’t take any of this as a personal attack on anyone. I enjoy intelligent debate, particularly on such heated topics.
@Andrew
So this wasn’t aimed at me: “[Y]ou are probably losing money and should quit and seek counseling for self destructive behavior”?
Who was it aimed at then?
“I already stated clearly that I think this may be a bubble. All I said was that it hasn’t peaked yet and there is a LOT of money to be made along the way.
We agree on that. At this point, I don’t know whether we’ll see a downturn or a plateau. Nor do I pretend to know when something like that will happen. Prices may continue rising for awhile yet. Depending on lucky timing and how a person plays his cards, money can be made. Money can also be lost.
“Ever heard the expression ‘A rising tide lifts all boats’?”
If this is a bubble and it pops, which is something you just acknowledged may happen, then a guy who buys at the peak must sell at a loss. How is his boat lifted, Andrew? Frank Schilling is also fond of that phrase. In both cases – nTLDs and the Chinese domain market – real risk exists alongside speculative opportunity. That phrase gives people a false sense of security by masking the potential downside. Which is why I tend not to say it.
My goal is to have people think critically about pros AND cons. Then they can make up their own minds. Some people will participate in the Chinese domain market today, and it will be right for them. Some people will sell off their holdings rather than buying at the moment, and that will be right for them. Situations differ.
“2. There is a BIG difference between the scenarios you mentioned and the current Chinese domain frenzy. It’s called CREDIT.”
It’s not as simple as pointing at credit. Both the housing bubble and the tulip bubble were characterized by fast-paced speculation, blind faith in price stability, and optimism about continuing growth. Real estate was overvalued, and people expected prices to continue rising as if ongoing growth were a law of nature. Ditto tulips. Domainers can ask themselves if any of this applies to this feeding frenzy in the Chinese domain market.
I’m not insinuating that these sitautions are the same. They do, however, resemble each other enough that people should think about the possibility of prices going down as sharply as they have risen. Am I saying that will happen? No. But not to think about it would be foolish. Honestly, I haven’t made my mind up. I prefer hard data to gut feeling; and I simply haven’t looked at the hard data. To my knowledge, nobody has.
“3. The ONLY people who think this is ‘hype’ are those looking from the outside in.”
Very tired of hearing that nonsense. Why do you assume I haven’t sold domains to Chinese buyers? I have. For significant amounts. Even if I were selling 6-digit numerics or LLLL.net’s aggressively today and making a huge profit, I might still be intellectually honest enough to recognize hype when I see it.
Hype isn’t an all-or-nothing concept … as if market demand were either all 100% legitimate or all 100% due to hype. Certainly, there’s real market demand at work. Here and there within the market, you’ll also find hype. Hell, you wouldn’t have to search through too many Flippa listings before you stumbled across hype. Does that mean there’s no market demand for the domain in question? No. These are separate ideas.
I mean by “hype” people who stress the market upside very heavily and minimize all talk of risk. That’s hype. It’s found all over the place, and it doesn’t apply only to the Chinese sector.
“Perhaps it could be said that you have an agenda? Perhaps you aren’t very happy that the whole world is only interested in these obscure Chinese domains today and not whatever it is that you are holding?”
Talking out your ass. Ad hominem based on zilch. I’m VERY happy that domainers in the West are making money by selling to China. These are the same domainers who typically lost money on nTLD speculation, and it’s about time they caught a lucky break. Congratulations, everybody! Now these non-Chinese domainers have cash in their pockets again, which improves the wholesale liquidity and prices for domains I own in other asset classes.
What happened to your phrase “a rising tide lifts all boats”? Now you’re telling everybody that it’s a zero sum game, and that’s why I’m supposedly bitter. Hilarious inconsistency! You can’t have it both ways, Andrew!
Plus, it’s simply false that “the whole world is only interested in these obscure Chinese domains” and not other categories. Personally I’m selling other kinds of domains, and so are you. Aren’t you? If you’re not, then it’s time for a 90% fire-sale at Media Options, folks, because nobody on earth wants to buy what Andrew Rosener is selling anymore, according to Andrew himself!
You know that’s nonsense. Anybody can look at the sales charts I post At DNW or at DNJournal or wherever else and see how healthy the non-Chinese market is.
“This is the greatest bull market in the history of domain names. Sounds like news to me.”
Yes, of course it’s news. And that’s why I’ve written about it every week for over a year.
“There are only a few people on the planet as deep in the trenches as I and my team are, and this is my perspective. The rest of the noise is just heckling from the peanut gallery.”
Weren’t you just telling Acro that you’re a small player in the numeric game? Now you’re the world’s elite in this sector? Make up your mind, please.
Denigrating what is said by other domain professionals as mere “heckling from the peanut gallery” is quite rude. You’re welcome to disagree with me, Andrew. However, apart from the posturing, you seem actually to agree with me about the possibility of a bubble.
“[P]lease don’t take any of this as a personal attack on anyone.”
Sure looks like it.
IMO, I believe “You” reflects all people not making money should seek counseling. Andrew is probably writing that comment through a general consensus rather than pointing you out as this person.
What if there was a bigger mission in play to spark a number movement to increase overall prices. Many domain investor begin buying and selling numeric domains, thus, manipulating the domain market. It ignites a second bubble bust and then the best domains become available again. Just a thought.
We have no idea the reason behind numeric domains beyond lucky numbers and sequences. Unless I see real websites developed on these numeric domains, then market value means nothing to me. It means nothing for me to hear of Chinese buyers to buy up all the numeric domains, even newly registered 6N dot com domains.
What they do with the 20,000 domains will matter. At a cost of $300,000 to renew these domains annually, it makes no sense to not put these domains to work to help alleviate this yearly expense.
If the owner of this domain blog bought domains to just sit on them without making sales and annual revenue, do you think he would think differently about domain investing?
Revision:
IMO, I believe “You” reflects all people not making money should seek counseling. Andrew is probably writing that comment through a general consensus rather than pointing you out as this person.
What if there was a bigger mission in play to spark a number movement to increase overall prices. Many domain investors begin buying and selling numeric domains, thus, manipulating the domain market. It ignites a second bubble bust, and then the best domains become available again. Just a thought.
We have no idea the reason behind numeric domains beyond lucky numbers and sequences. Unless I see real websites developed on these numeric domains, then market value means nothing to me. It means nothing for me to hear of Chinese buyers buying up all the numeric domains, even newly registered 6N dot com domains.
What this new owner does with the 20,000 domains will matter. At a cost of $300,000 to renew these domains annually, it makes no sense to not put these domains to work to help alleviate this yearly expense.
If the owner of this domain blog bought domains just to sit on them without making domain sales and annual revenue via domain parking and development, do you think he would think differently about domain investing?
Actually Andrew your statement should have been directed at Joaeph because I was saying the same thing you said I said it’s all about money and you seem to say the same so actually your comments are directed at Joseph
@Andrew – For or against rhetoric aside, I will have to ask you: Who is buying these domains? Do you have any data to share?
China has a population of 1.2+ billion people, but these domains are in the hands of a few investors/domainers.resellers, not spread out among the Xiang Xongs of China.
My point is, that when Oliver Hoger exchanged Pug.com for your 400 6N .com domains, he’s just yet another domainer – a drop in the bucket of end users worldwide. It’d be newsworthy if a group of Chinese started using these 400 6N’s as opposed to Hoger holding them, speculating on their future value.
If you show me 1 million Chinese end users buying the 6N/7N/8N domains – lucky numbers or not – then I’ll have a different perspective. Until then, it’s simply market speculation – and that opinion comes from me and others that form the “peanut gallery.”
When American’s moved West to California, it was large land speculators that started picking up large tracks of land. It was later that this land was broken up into smaller parcels to individuals that wanted to build a home or a business on it. The same thing is happening here.
The simple trigger in my mind is that if I am a Chinese small business would I rather launch my business on 828.top or on 828282.com ? You be the judge, but I know my opinion.
But the problem here is what Chinese buyers are launching their online businesses on these lucky number sequences? Are they getting prime time exposure from these numeric domains? Making a profit? Future holdings? Anticipating large sales of number domains?
The West settlement was worth the risk to gain free access to land, if settlers followed the terms of conditions included within the Homestead Act of 1862. It is possible this land became valuable once the Gold Strike ruled the mid 1800’s. The Gold Movement is most likely responsible for building San Francisco into a prominent West Coast city.
Referring to the West settlement as speculation, are you insinuating that these numeric domains will represent a tipping point of development? More numeric websites? Building brands on numbered domains? Motivation to build via numbers?
@Andrew – To utilize your fine example, many that moved to California thanks to the gold rush literally perished.
Many lives were lost, savings were plundered, and lots of fool’s gold – pyrite – was mistaken for the real precious metal. The news of these discoveries sent more men and families to the West, and eventually they made ends meet by switching from the gold search to working hard in other industries.
If I were a Chinese small business I’d go for a descriptive dot .CN. If I were a HUGE Chinse company, then things change.
@Acro,
I agree, a local Chinese owner could benefit from a descriptive .CN. However, a large Chinese corporation would require both the .CN and .Com to make the most out of their brand. Universal traffic matters.
If you visit California Historic Parks, you will notice Chinese workers as secondary settlers who didn’t prosper from the Gold Strike. As you mentioned, many settlers searching for speculative gold didn’t fair well. They lost mostly everything. In any case, the risk to become rich ruled above everything else.
Gold miners also required expensive rock breaking machines to crush out the gold. They would have to burn out the gold after it was found in rocks. The process to mine the right rock in the right areas resulted in risking investment to find the right mines. After all of this, they had to pay for this rock to be crushed and melted. Pioneers probably thought of better ways later on.
The domain industry operates in this Gold Strike manner. Many domain investors don’t profit as much as the top domain investors. They spend massive amounts of money on buying and renewing domains annually. The notion that you have to have got there first doesn’t matter anymore.
Opportunities exist at any point of time. Get there in a few years and still make a substantial profit. However, speculation and hype motivate quick returns. Most domain investors, the majority of them, don’t want to wait 10+ years to make a domain sale. The top domain investors will wait much longer to make this sale happen. They have more than enough resources at their disposal to fund their domain business.
In China, numbers have a huge value in luck and in future success. There is more to the number movement than we can fully understand right now. Maybe, one day, we will know why all the best number domain names are in China.
Numeric domains rule the sales chart. We figure out Chinese buyers are the core market. They have a reason to acquire these domains, even paying $2 million for 6N dot com. High risk, higher return.
Still, these random sales are not enough motivation to invest in a movement without knowing the reason for its hype. Is it hype, speculation or investment?
Now, we have a few domain blogs writing more articles on numeric domains and wishing they had invested in them a few years ago. Click bait? Hot headlines for traffic? Numeric sales are becoming standard domain article topics.
There seems to be no end to this numeric discussion. People are buying up numeric domains with hope they will make a large sale. Horrible strategy!
Why is it a horrible strategy because you say it is horrible ? the bottom line is people made a ton of money on numerics people that bought 5N.com have made money and now people buying 6N.com making money if you wait to you understand everything the move already happened.
@Domain Shane,
This current NNNNNN movement is a horrible strategy. 5N makes sense because they may represent a zip code in an American city.
We don’t have to rely on your daily commentary on why we should purchase domain names on the drop. You have your personal perception, we have ours.
You’re one of the most well-known domain sheeps out there. Usually coming around to promote some useless domain name. You follow what everyone does and says.
Domain Shane says touch your nose. Your domain audience does. Domain Shane says buy all these dropped domains. Your domain audience buys all the dropped domains.
We can vote to rebrand your domain blog, Domain Sheep 🙂
Cut out Chinese buyers and all numeric domain holders have no market. That’ll be the day those who avoided this numeric movement will smile.
Why wait to understand this market. It is not a market, but a reason that Chinese are buying these domains. Sooner than later, Chinese buyers will have enough of these domains. If they’re smart, they will register their own numeric dot com rather than pay outrageous prices to acquire them.
when you continue to rely on Chinese buyers to purchase these type of domains, eventually you will lose big. What happens with a portfolio of thousands of NNNNNNN domain names when Chinese close the gates? They lose a ton of money.
I have no interest understanding the numeric movement, nor do I care to enter this trend. Go ahead and have fun buying and selling to the Chinese. Promote numeric domains on your domain blog.
It is a one-dimensional market that will flame out. Have you ever had a buyer that purchased specific domain names from you, and then you go out and acquire more of these domains, only to lose out because they are no longer interested? This will define the Chinese numeric movement in the future.
As a Chinese business owner, they could tell customer to visit (3) 82s dot com. It is easy to remember this number sequence
Also, we don’t make as many mistakes with numbers than generic terms and brandable names via letters. We can easily miss a letter and this business is then lost to another competitor or parked domains.
Parking number domains may not give owners access to organic traffic. People are not searching for 828282; they’re not typing in this number sequence. Unless a Chinese business is established on this lucky number sequence, the value is speculative.
It makes sense to build on a numeric domain. Little to no traffic is lost to typos. Easy to remember. Can repeat number domains to customers like phone numbers. Business use numbers as marketing. A club in San Francisco is known as 1015. Numbers rule phone numbers and addresses. Coordinates rely on numbers. Coding depends on number placement. Math is all about numbers.
Numbers the next domain movement? Large NNN and NNNN sales? Where are the other buyers? Is Chinese buyers enough to define a movement? When do the gates close? How many people will lose money joining this movement?
“Math is all about numbers”
That’s gonna be my new tag line.
🙂
This whole thread is cracking me up.
-I’ve learned about westward American expansion
-gained knowledge about the housing crash
-better understand the minds of Chinese businessmen and shop owners
-I now realize that there is a large number of philanthropic domainers that buy domains only with the hope of giving back to society.
– but the main thing I’m learning is that the smart Chinese are capitalists at heart and have found a way to prosper under less than ideal government oversight.
@Ikehook,
Have the Chinese found a way to prosper? Some.
Bob flips for profit. He prospers.
Chuck buys from Bob, intending to flip for profit. Chuck’s timing is good; so, as a seller, he also prospers.
Dave buys from Chuck, expecting to flip for profit. Does he?
Sooner or later the chain of upward flips stops. If you’re buying at today’s floor price in order to sell at next year’s floor price, then you’re reliant on continued appreciation of 17.65% or more per year. When growth slows below that threshold, people begin selling at a loss.
It’s a game of hot potato – not for the people who bought years ago at a fraction of today’s value but for people buying in at full price going forward. Maybe not yet, but sooner or later. Inevitably, given current buying behavior, somebody will be stuck holding these during a period where they can only be sold at a loss.
If domaining is only about flipping domains for profit, then this is a pyramid scheme. The only thing that brings sanity into this picture is if the chain of flip-flip-flip-flip-flip culminates in an end user who values something else.
I think Joseph there are now plenty of traders, where domaining before was more along investing lines. Wait and hold, now people have naming conventions that can be traded like Forex. Is someone going to be holding the bag ? Absolutely, there is always some holding the bag in life. If you are going to play the numeric and short letter game you have to know that. ( I know you do) someone on Namepros posted all 5L without AEIOUV are registered now. These are crazy times, but when you watch the Chinese market in real time you see it is not a guy like Andrew hyping, the Chinese are buying and selling these like crazy.
@Raymond,
I never said Andrew Rosener was hyping the Chinese market sector. If he is, then I haven’t seen it. Rosener is ideally positioned (via NameJet, his MediaOptions subscribers, DomainSherpa, investor connections, etc.) to take advantage of short-term market movements by moving inventory quickly. Given such a buyer pool, why not give people what they want? Make hay while the sun shines!
Rosener wasn’t stampeded. He sold off his holdings in 1 volatile asset class and bought into something more stable. Given the choice between something with no history of price stability, relatively high holding cost, zero appeal for U.S. end-users and the opposite, Andrew knew which side his bread was buttered on.
Of course, this Chinese upsurge is a real phenomenon; I’ve always said so. Good domains in these categories are valuable; that makes sense and will likely remain true. But when someone tells me hype must not exist because real money is changing hands, then I disagree. That argument won’t hold water.
Is there hype? We’ve all seen it, haven’t we? Is hype a factor? Honestly, I don’t think any Western domainer is influential enough to move the price needle this much here in the West – let alone in China. So the idea that Andrew or any other individual is causing this year-long appreciation is something I’ve never entertained.
Hype can be collective – group think, a herd mentality. Cumulatively, the coverage given to the Chinese domain market over the past year has certainly influenced Western domainers to bid higher and buy more in categories they barely understand. Not all that coverage has been hype. Some hype has been innocent enough – people getting carried away and forgetting to mention the risks. Hype has even led some domainers to make money.
Yes, I suspect that hype is a factor – a factor, not the whole story. I see value in these asset classes. But prices have been growing much too fast to be supported by any sound underlying cause that I’m aware of. Supported by fundamentals or not, such growth WILL slow down, stop, or reverse. Sooner or later, it must.
Far from being scarce, such domains are being manufactured in wholly new TLDs, causing an unprecedented glut. It’s easy to see how hype might happen collectively, even without sinister villains twirling pointy mustaches. People observe prices rising. Soon there’s buzz about the topic, drawing in more eager buyers. The rules about what to buy are simple enough a 6 year old can understand them; so buyers aren’t slowed down by research or language barriers. Reports of large classes of domains being bought out prompt even more ambitious buyouts. Everybody jumps aboard the bandwagon for fear of being left out.
To me this looks like an unstable positive feedback loop. Enthusiasm causes acceleration. Prices will overshoot their long-term steady-state value, followed by a market correction.
But we must look to China in order to learn what’s really going on. My suspicion is that we’d find Chinese sellers hyping domains as a secure investment asset with amazing growth potential. Chinese hype. In China. That’s merely an hypothesis, but I’d be shocked if it’s untrue.
Joseph I was not accusing you of anything, I did not say you said Andrew was hyping. I wrote an article a couple weeks ago about not investing in what you don’t understand. I always tell people domains are risky.
There is hype and sometimes in the short run that hype is justified, Mike Tyson lived up to the hype and all those who promoted the hype were on the right side til Mike went to Japan and fought Buster Douglas.
The flipside of the coin is those who missed out by listening to those that said it was hype. I had someone come to me about a week ago who was on the verge of committing suicide, he owned several 5N.com and 4L.com that he dropped because as he describes it, those who supposedly know more than him told him they were pigeon shit, so he dropped them, at conservative whole prices, he missed out on close to $350,000.
So now he has a wife berating him, asking him how he could be such a failure in life ?
Now don’t get me wrong seems there are other issues there as well, but the money is certainly one part of that, so he missed out on making a big chunk of money because he listened to those that told him “Don’t believe the hype ?” Well that advice cost him a lot of money and probably his marriage.
@Raymond Hackney,
Your coverage of the market is always quite balanced.
Andrew told me privately that he thought I’d accused him of hyping the Chinese domain market; so I wanted to clarify that I hadn’t, while you were mentioning him and hype in the same sentence.
It’s unfortunate that your acquaintance didn’t pay closer attention to market prices. If his wife is berating him rather than supporting him, then he should drop his wife as he dropped his domains.
If I’m advocating anything, it’s patient research, critical thinking, a thorough assessment of pros and cons, and making up your own mind. If your acquaintance had done that, he’d have made $350,000.
The Chinese are buying, but are they really selling? Who are these Chinese buyers? Are they making a profit by acquiring these numeric domains? Buying to hold?
Test of time will determine the motivation behind acquiring these numeric domains. If they have no meaning to me, I don’t see holding many of these domains. I don’t want to review my domain list, questioning why on Earth did I follow the sheep to acquire these N domains.
I want domains that make sense. I can develop these on a small-scale. At least make some revenue before flipping them at a good profit. Better yet, develop, make money and don’t rush to sell. Value these domains as your best, so you don’t under sell them.
If domain investors such as Frank, Rick, Mike, and other domain leaders are making revenue through putting their domains to work, then waiting to flip is not required. They can sustain registration cost via alternative methods.
This, IMO, is how these domain investors get the most out of their domains. If you rely on domains to survive, you will lose the game. Chances are, you will say the wrong thing to your buyer and lose a deal.
Build a domain business where you put your domains to work to make revenue, it won’t duplicate a pyramid scheme. What if you can develop the best domains to make revenue? Then, you have hundreds of domains making you major revenue.
No hurry to sell domains. It is making you money and paying renewal fees annually. Speculating is good. Trends are okay. Hype is all hype. I wouldn’t base my future on all hype.
Unless a domain investor makes consistent sales and trust this numeric movement, maybe it best that inexperienced investors keep their insight on – what to buy – under wraps. Gullible domain investors with less experience stand to lose a ton of money making uninformed purchases and/or registrations.
Best educational thread under a domain discussion ever. As you can see, domain names can lead to some good.
This is the most fun I’ve had commenting about domains. Surely, I’m getting a good laugh right about now. Definitely, this is a positive domain experience.
What I learned is that Chinese view numbers highly. They seem to base their success on lucky numbers and sequences. Maybe it is a new web language we don’t understand yet.
Is it possible the Chinese are communicating with Aliens to get insight on why they should buy as many numbers as possible, even when these are available for hand registration? Are the Chinese building the next Egyptian Pyramid under out-of-this-world knowledge?
Since we are educating, Most of the Tulip mania legend was actually over stated,
Anne Goldgar debunks many of the legends of the tulip craze in her new book, Tulipmania: Money, Honor, and Knowledge in the Dutch Golden Age. For instance, according to the Financial Times review of her book, Goldgar was unable to find a single person who was bankrupted by the tulipmania.
Nor did the speculative craze include large sections of the population: “In lore, Dutch chimney sweeps spent their savings on bulbs, but in fact the buyers were mostly merchants and craftsmen from the province of Holland. These are the smug burghers we know from portraits of the era. Many were Mennonites.”
http://hoaxes.org/weblog/comments/tulipmania
You may be right on that. If X isn’t worth debunking, then X isn’t worth believing. Plenty of legendary episodes from history grow with the telling.
It would be a mistake to ignore the numerical market and even the LLLLL market.
The Chinese seem to be building a language around numbers and combinations of LL. Just Google “Chinese Internet Slang,” and you will see that there are several sites devoted to publishing meanings of numbers and Roman letters. Even long strings of numbers (especially patterns and palindromes) are/will be desirable. I challenge you to find any available 888NNN888 .com; if you do, snag ’em! (I believe that the palindromes are gone.)
But there are consonant LLLLL still left to register: I just registered 3 today, one with two repeating letters, so let’s be careful not to overstate.
🙂
A language we don’t know about? Some cryptic language only the Chinese and Aliens can decipher?
So we go out and buy all combinations of NNNNN and rely on Chinese buyers to make us big offers? Reward speculative domain investors huge sums of cash?
The only number domains that make any sense to purchase are 1,2,3,4, and 5n domains. Beyond 5, you are wasting your money, IMO. I would prefer a 1N, 3N and/or 5N over all else.
Until you sell those N and L domains and come back here and tell us how much of a profit you made, it doesn’t matter what you register in that hyped space. If we debate their value to make a sale, how can these domains hold any value? I challenge you to set a value on a random repeating number domain? Tell your buyer how much you want and why it should hold this price?
But, on the flip side, you can argue a value for a generic one and two-word domain name. It is obvious.
It’s not a “mysterious” language; the info has always been out there; we Westerners just weren’t aware until some savvy people in the industry started noticing trends, for example, names like js888 going for big bucks and being bought by Chinese investors.
In any case, the Business Insider article that was making the rounds yesterday explains the phenomenon very well.
It’s a case of “If you don’t know what the question is, you can’t find the answer to it.” But now the West IS aware of these trends.
Nonetheless, it would also be a mistake not to diversify one’s portfolio.
Trends mean nothing without real answers. People bought cloud and 3D domains with hope to score large sales. However, cloud and 3D domains fell flat. In recent time, we haven’t seen as many sales, if any at all.
The West wants to know the answers? That’s a good one, because in Chinese movies the characters avoid wanting to adopt the practices of the West. In Chinese cinema, the West is viewed as hotheads who use guns. Whereas, the Chinese rely on traditional fighting through some form of martial arts.
Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to rely on uninformed N dot com domain sales to diversify a domain portfolio. The trends of these N sales are there, but we don’t fully understand them because we can’t take advantage of what the Chinese are doing with these numeric domains.
Who in the West reies on developing and branding their companies based on numeric domains? Make a list of all these companies using numeric domain names. Please share this insight with us.
Who cares about development? Investors don’t develop gold that they hold; it holds value, so they invest in it. If they buy low, they win; if they buy too high, they lose.
It’s the same with domain names; the trick is to buy low (most of my NNNNN’s were BIN, one I paid low XX).
For development in China, you might take a look at Baidu.com, the Chinese search engine.
We all make choices, and we might not agree, but that’s what makes life interesting.
🙂
Baidu.com is not a prime example of N development. That is a brandable domain name that happened to be developed into a Chinese search engine.
Then, there is 360.com, another Chinese developed website. Is this numeric website trying to imitate Alibaba.com?
Of course, people buy N dot com because there is demand from the opposition (China). These buyers anticipate buying low to sell high. This can be done with L domains that make sense.
Gold is another discussion. It holds trade value. There is value in the gold market, reflected in real-time U.S. tracking per ounce. Though not always developed, gold holds significant value since it does not tarnish. Gold can sell to those who invest in gold jewelry. Gold is measured based on supply and demand.
How can we justify a speculative N dot com market for the sake of Chinese buyers? Buy up all the numeric domains and block future development once numbers are in high demand? If that is the case, the West is selling their future to make a few dollars?
Your 5N hold significant value, resulting from US zip codes. 4N dot com hold value for calendar years. However, 6N are overrated and their million combinations show a lack of scarcity.
It is not impossible to acquire 6Ns.
I’m calling it now, no way all 8N combinations will be registered in their entirety, in our lifetime. If this happens, then it will cause a domain bust. Speculate if you want, but be realistic.
Do all people who visit Las Vegas expect to win at the slot machines? Yes. Do they win? No! Why? Because the house is against them. Strategy may work to save you money. However, being overly persistent to win and/or trying to win back money will doom gamblers.
We have the next movement on the horizon heating up – domain investors going after 7N dot com. Good luck on that. There are tens of millions of possible combinations.
The only people we see who are benefitting from these registrations are Verisign. Keep it coming. Dream if you want.
@DomainShane,
Misread your name. I apologize.
See, this mixup wouldn’t happen if numbers were involved.
DomainShaME is NOT Shane Cultra aka DomainShane. It is probably BullS or someone similar. Not quite sure.
PS: Enjoyed the discussion here. AND I still make money selling tulips every year.
Read explanation of what to purchase and why to buy N domains in discussion section. Look for DomainEmpire advice.
http://www.domaininvesting.com/i-dont-fully-understand-the-chinese-domain-market/#comments
A developed Chinese website on numeric domain.
http://828282.com/d.html
Sequential 6N domain name Andrew mentioned as an example of what Chinese business would use to launch website.
828282.com
I suppose it is easy to remember 82 repeated three times in a row. It’s short, easy to remember and repeating the numbers back won’t make any mistakes.
Are Chinese buyers really buying all these names?
Who registered these big blocks of numeric domains in recent months?
I would like to see some analysis, breakdown and segmentation of the various combinations (LL, LLL, LLLL, 2N – 6N) to actually see if there has been a ‘significant’ movement of these domains to Chinese domiciled owners and accounts over the last 12 months. Further to this, the same analysis would need to be done on monthly basis to see if there is any trend forming.
Until some quantitative data is provided, rather than qualitative data and gut feel, then I don’t think that anyone can truly say with certainty that the demand and market is been driven by Chinese buyers. I have seen only one analysis of the LL.com breakdown of Chinese –v – Others owners.
Yes, some Chinese domain investors have bought domains. Are they really driving the market or is it non-Chinese buyers who are driving the short letter and numeric domain market up…
Y’all can keep arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong, but the guys selling the spades (Verisign) is laughing all the way to the bank.
If you really want to make money from this without risk, sell domains as a registry / registrar / reseller.
Warning, the registrar PremiumNic.com has disappeared! It redirects to http://nicmarket.com
All the numerical domains are overvalued.I think the investors are completely misguided and investing with a huge amount of risk.
Came across this old The Domains post while searching for “How many 6N .com’s are there?” Awesome to know there were less than 8,000 left in 2015. Does anyone know how many are left now?
I still have two I caught on drop back in 2015 – 2016 for low to mid $xxx per domain. Made sure there were no 0’s or 4’s in these. Also make sure they had enough 8’s to make them lucky.
288182.com
889199.com