After collecting over 1/3 of a billion dollars in application fees, ICANN attempted to pass off the whole .Sucks issue to law enforcement this week, asking them for an opinion, which is very unlikely to come, of whether the .sucks roll-out violates US or Canadian federal law.
ICANN is quoted as saying it was “concerned about the contentions of illicit actions” by Vox Populi but that it lacks the expertise or jurisdiction to evaluate them”.
Really?
Basically ICANN just “ratted out” one of its own applicants to the Feds, asking them to investigate whether a contract that ICANN signed with a registry operator is legal.
ICANN spent Over $4 Million in legal fees according to its tax return they filed this week for their fiscal year ending in June 2014 and they say they “lacks the expertise” to determine whether an application has run afoul of federal law.
Really?
Shameful.
When ICANN says “Here’s a registry that’s fully compliant with all ICANN regulations but which may nevertheless be engaged in a pattern of unlawful conduct.” it invites review and government oversight of every other fully compliant Registry.
There is a clear implication that ICANN oversight alone is insufficient to protect the public from unlawful activity by registry operators. If that’s the case, ICANN is essentially asking for government intervention — it is rather ironic that it is seeking this help at a time when it has been asking that same government to give up its oversight role.
ICANN should just register ICANN.fail but its reserved. ICANN could register ICANN.sucks but its going to cost them.
According to sources, the .Sucks registry set the wholesale cost for ICANN.sucks to $185,000, the cost of a new gTLD application.
The retail cost of ICANN.sucks is $249,000 at 101domain.com, so the registrar that is lucky enough to get that business will make a cool $64,000 for a domain registration. that beats the hell out of a $1 profit on a .com registration.
Akram Atallah, in trying to punt the problem to the Feds, the head of ICANN’s global domains division is quoted as saying:
“We do not get into the content or the business model or the pricing of a registry”
Really?
If ICANN wants to play the “we do not get into the content” card, then there are three letters that preclude that defense in my opinion;
.XXX.
Anyone remember the 7 or so year fiasco involving ICM’s application for .XXX ? It was approved by ICANN then rejected, then approved again only after an Independent Review Panel (IRP) found ICANN acted against it owns rules in denying ICM’s .XXX application.
If you need a refresher course, you can check out the Chronological History of ICM’s Involvement with ICANN from ICANN’s own website.
Does anyone think that the battle over .XXX had nothing to do with content?
It’s not like ICANN didn’t have notice about The Vox Populi Registry Inc. (VOX) plan to charge record high prices for .Sucks registrations, we wrote about their initial plan to charge up to $25K per domain registration, per year in December 2014.
If ICANN read TheDomains.com back then we said:
“This is going to be a problem for ICANN and for the New gTLD program”.
Of course back in December The Vox Populi Registry Inc. (VOX) was only one of three applicants, but once they won the private auction for .Sucks, ICANN staff should have been on high alert.
We also questioned in December if ICANN was going to hold VOX to its language in its own application.
Here is a section of VOX’s application for .sucks:
“”18(c). What operating rules will you adopt to eliminate or minimize social costs?
“”The registry will seek to create the orderly introduction of domain names in a way that is respectful of trademarks and sensitive to costs.””
A Sunrise period will ensure the protection of rights holders.””
Of course now we know that all trademark holders are not treated equally, by VOX while some trademark holders can get a registration for $250, others who VOX placed on a Premium Domain List will have to pay $2,500 a year
This hardly seems “respectful of rights holders” and sensitive to costs.
Actually the pricing scheme seems abusive to rights holders
The bigger the rights holder and the more the rights holder has protected their marks in the past, the more likely they are going to be placed on the $2,500 per year list.
.Sucks could have charged a Sunrise of $250 for all and would have still made plenty of money and not drawn the Feds into the discussion.
Hogs get fat, pigs get slaughtered. That’s a phrase someone told me a long time ago and stuck. .Sucks might be the best example of that phrase.
Selecting some to pay $2,500 while others can pay $250 is not going going to win hearts and minds. Saying well we were going to charge $25K per year per registration and now its only $2,500 is also not going win hearts and minds either.
We also know that ICANN without public comment made many fundamental changes to its contract with the .sucks registry including the price they had to pay to ICANN.
ICANN which normally charges $.18 a domain registration with a $25K per year minimum had a special term for VOX where they would make up to $1M due to the past history of the applicant with ICANN
When did ICANN abandon its responsibility to properly vet its applicants?
If you have 3 or more UDRP cases against you, your barred under the Applicant Guide Book (AGB) from even applying for a new gTLD.
If you have a criminal record of a felony you are also barred.
There are several bars to enter the new gTLD club but paying your bills with ICANN doesn’t seem to be one.
If you want to collect the big money you need to make the big decisions.
You can’t just collect the gold and punt the problems.
When Uniregistry announced they were asking the Feds if private auctions were “legal” we gave the opinion that they would get “no opinion”. The government is not there to tell you if something your planning on doing is legal or not. If it’s not legal the feds will show up at your office one day and haul your stuff off and charge people.
As for .sucks, like we said when the opinion of the Feds was asked about the legality of private auctions, the Feds will not issue an opinion on if something you’re planning on doing or engaged in is legal.
That is what attorney’s are for.
ICANN you have a team of lawyers and revenue in the hundreds of millions.
Make an assessment, make a call.
Don’t punt with hundreds of millions in the bank.
This is the nail in the coffin, I love it:
“it is rather ironic that it is seeking this help at a time when it has been asking that same government to give up its oversight role”.
Icann is the abstract, online equivalent of a pimp.
Hello MHB,
KUDOS, The Black Hats are differentiated by the White Hats JAS 4/11/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
ICANN.sucks
As a Canadian I consider the “Vox Populi registry” a national embarrassment.
Months ago I sent ICANN an email expressing these same sentiments.
All we can say is Sorry.
Hello MHB,
With ICANN its always been about the MONEY, thats the overall image. The image of the New gTLDS is a damaging Marketing Liability that savvy Online Marketers will run from. JAS 4/11/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Who wrote this post?
Who write “According to sources, the .Sucks registry set the wholesale cost for ICANN.sucks to $185,000, the cost of a new gTLD application.”.
You don’t know who wrote this post ?
Hello Mhb,
Sorry for the mis print statement I forgot a very key word in the first comment here it is corrected
Hello MHB,
With ICANN its always been about GREED and the MONEY, thats the overall image. The image of the New gTLDS is a damaging Marketing Liability that savvy Online Marketers will run from. JAS 4/11/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Mike, you’re one sexy beast when you get angry.
I agree and disagree. I don’t think that ICANN was involved in content issues with .xxx. The largest problem with that TLD was separating content from the technical compliance with ICANN’s rules and lawsuits ensued when .xxx folks decided that the line was crossed. There were best practices reasons for .xxx, where the domain owners would have to comply with security, avoid marketing to kids or teasing child porn, and offer best pactices covering privacy and financial credentials.
.sucks is different.
Arguably, it is a place ot let people vent. But venting is not covered by the First Amendment completely in the US and has a range of protection outside of the US, typically with far less patience and protection than stateside. Like some of the anonymous sites that allow attacks using their apps and sites and claim they have no access to identifying information about the posters or users, .sucks is designed to make money on pain.
The only similarity I see between .xxx and .sucks is their making most of their revenue selling “insurance” to brands and celebrities. You buy the domain, and you are protected by someone else buying it nd abusing it to hurt you or your brand.
I run wiredsafety. we are a 20 yr old all volunteer group, now a US charity operating through our volunteers iall over the world. We help victims and targets online from cyberstalking, harassment and cyberbullying. We address revenge porn, sextortion and sexual exploitation of minors and adults.
.sucks will become a playground for abuse.
I am not convinced they are taking the responsiblity seriously. Even if they are acting in good faith, it will be like herding 1 million+ cats.
I am creating a team just to review .sucks, the domain holders and abuses. Luckily, I don’t need to rely on ICANN policing content for us. As a digital privacy and security lawyer and head of the oldest online safety group in the world, we’ll do it ourselves.
thanks,
Parry Aftab, Esq.
Very well thought out. ICANN walks a delicate line. Multistakeholder organization on the one hand, wanting to show everyone that rules and policies can successfully be created through consensus. On the other hand they are indeed “raking in cash” and there is a high burden on them to keep order in the system they created and to man-up and lead and not abdicate responsibility when politically convenient. I appreciate that strings like .SUCKS and .XXX are polarizing, but good comes from bad sometimes and ICANN’s leadership has an obligation to act as ringmaster and keep it’s special interest subgroups in-line, letting all voices be heard.
It feels inequitable that a TLD could get in the root without fanfare, then on the eve of sunrise all hell breaks lose. The phrase “a day late and a dollar short” springs to mind. The structure of ICANN allows anyone to contribute to the organization and shape policy through consensus. Sometimes, the sub-groups that move ICANN along, misstep. They miss the boat, or try to do things in self-serving ways. When ICANN appears to give people a re-do, bends the rules or shapes its process to serve one sub-group over another it makes the way ICANN functions look inequitable to outsiders. That inequity opens a flank to attackers who challenge the validity of the entire organization and the way it does business.
I think it was a mistake for ICANN to parrot the words of the IPC subgroup to the FTC and Canadian Authorities. Those were unfounded allegations driven by a last-gasp, got-nothin motivation to throw a spanner in the works. Having ICANN let a string come to market and then parrot unfounded allegations to the cops makes it look like the organization couldn’t manage a trip to the lunch-room.
I agree with your comment that in a different era ICANN was unfair reacting to, the IPC in regard to XXX. There is an unfortunate pattern of big brands running roughshod over a process while trying to shape it to their liking. The entire concept of a “sunrise” is a special situation, a red-carpet to the front of the line. Front row tickets do not come with a name-your-price option. And not all extensions cost the same to bring to market or will come with the same sunrise price.
All in all Mike you should think twice about giving up lawyering. Your comments are blisteringly spot-on.
@Robin, as a fellow Canadian I’d like to throw my arm around your shoulder and offer a hearty slap on the back for deftly executing the running gag that we Canadians apologize for everything. I’m sorry for singling you out, for saying sorry ; )
Hello Frank.Schilling ,
You are blisteringly cunning with your reply here. Frank the jig is up, the really Smart Money Rick Schwartz , MHB, and the (Contact Group) all Domainers are waking up. You are on the wrong side of the equation and don’t know or have sense enough to realize it. Good luck you will need it !
The Big Picture :
We all should be angry. This whole GOOGLE and ICANN power grab should be exposed for the good of all Small Business Online Expansion. Its a deeper issue that has long gone unfettered and accepted so a few rich concerns could flourish at the expense of the Middle Class Businessman. JAS 4/12/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Parry
“”avoid marketing to kids or teasing child porn””
Ok that’s fine but we still have this quote from Akram Atallah,
“We do not get into the content or the business model or the pricing of a registry”
There you go
they have
Kevin
I was shocked to learn in the course of writing this story that “ICANN” was not on the banned list of domain names but they are not
I was also shocked. Looks like I was dead wrong about icann.* being reserved by registry agreements.
Jeff/Frank
Reminder we have rules about personal attacks here lets keep to the issues at hand
Hello MHB,
We agree with you, sorry for being so truthful, We have tried to be respectfull with facts, and feel Frank pushed the envelope. Thanks for the warning we will abide by it.
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Forgetting about ICANN for a second, and talking about the Vox Populi Registry. Frank writes about the red carpet. What is essentially happening here IS ILLEGAL. A few comparisons…
1.) Imagine a land owner having land adjacent to Bill Gates property. And the land owner sets two prices. One that is for normal people, and prices that land at $1 million dollars. But, if Bill Gates were to be the buyer, he would have to pay $1 billion. That is unfair, illegal and price gouging.
2.) If a movie were being shown in a theater and there were different prices for different people. If you are an average Joe, you only have to pay $15 to get in. If you are famous, you have to pay $100 to get into the movie. If you are an actor, you have to pay $500 . If you were an actor in that specific movie, you have to pay $2,500 to get in. If you work for Microsoft you have to pay $50,000. And if you are Bill Gates, you have to pay $1 million to get in. Again, this is discriminatory against certain types of people and people specifically.
3.) You could compare this to a grocery store. All people can buy fruits and vegetables for their regular price. But if you are vegetarian you have to pay five times as much. And if you are vegan you have to pay 20 times the set price for the same fruits and vegetables. If you are a female vegan you have to pay 100 times the price. And if you are a female vegan between the ages of 25 and 35 you have to pay 500 times the price. Again, this is highly illegal, and while I’m not a lawyer, I have to assume this would fall into many different types of discrimination.
But what is even worse with .sucks is that the registry is making the pricing higher for trademark owners! People who have gone out of their way to protect their brand and mark. It is extortion and discrimination against brand owners and trademark holders, forcing them to pay more FOR THE SAME PRODUCT just because they have the most interest in the product.
What might be even worse for ICANN is if the .sucks bubble bursts, this could have a trickle-down effect onto all other TLDs that did sunrise periods. And I believe the .sucks bubble will burst one way or another. Weather with a class action lawsuit, or with some type of governmental regulation. While I am not there yet, I would love to see someone organize a coalition of brand owners that have been extorted to all chip in $1,000 each to put together a fund to sue the Vox Populi registry in a class action lawsuit. In the end it is in these trademark owners best interest, versus having to pay $2,500 a year to Vox Populi over the next 10 years or more! What is great is that this information is publicly available between zone files and whois information, and create dates for the domain names. Or lets just wait for a law firm to see the atrocities with .sucks and go after a class action suit on their own.
Back to the point of this topic: Yes, it is extremely ironic than when something goes amiss that ICANN goes to the very government that they are trying to get away from. Because they need assistance in the .sucks disaster. Don’t forget Vox Populi’s way of promoting .xxx. “Protect your brand” This registry is all about threats and extortion against brand owners! If ICANN took in so much money to be stewards and ambassadors of the gTLD expansion, why can’t they handle this issue on their own and instead need the government’s help? They are just punting the problem. My guess, because their lawyers are realizing what a legal mess this is, and they want to cover their backs so that they can claim “we asked for help with this.”
@kd .. In your example above, if Bill Gates identified himself as wishing to be granted a first right of refusal to purchase the land next to him in advance of other comers (a sunrise of sorts), there is nothing illegal about charging a premium for that right. This same argument holds for the moviegoers in example 2 who had to pay a premium for identifying themselves as wanting to go first (sunrise) to get the seats they want in the theater, or the vegetarians who want a “sunrise” to get to the fresh vegetables before you and I. I am not a lawyer either but charging a premium for premium services is not illegal. In fact if that premium was just 1% nobody would grumble. But because Vox Pupuli had the audacity to set that premium at a number of their choosing and because that number doesn’t meet the standard set by the trademark-cabal, there has somehow been a crime committed? Taken to its illogical conclusion, trademark owners are engaging in racketeering along with ICANN trying to set pricing acceptable to them! People have gone out of their way to protect their brand or mark, using a special right-of-way that costs money, and now we are just arguing about money.
We have not heard from the registry. I see the good that could come from a string like .sucks and I really like the idea of a third party sponsor paying a fee to make a string lower priced for consumers to protest. I would donate to that personally. For all the hand wringing about .XXX I am pleased that I know what to expect when I visit a beignly titled .XXX name ending. I think .XXX was a positive evolution in naming, despite its unintended consequences. History has shown that these new name endings bring positive attributes along with fewer negative byproducts.
@ Mr. Afab, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank you for your years of work with wiredsafety. You have helped to make the internet a better place and that is an interest we all share. I staunchly disagree however with your statement that .sucks will “become a playground for abuse”. In the final analysis, names are just “labels” We run a labeling system on the internet that makes it easier for humans to identify the content they want after their search engine provides them with a list of choices. A well curated name-space makes it easier to do your type of work, and to fight the very ills your have been championing against.
Frank can you tell us what your financial benefit is in the.sucks registry?
I’ve already revealed that .sucks is not my business model or idea. I do have an interest in seeing this namespace thrive. Uniregistry does not intend to sell the sunrise registrations but we intend to support the consumer advocacy registrations when the path to offering those is revealed, and I think the string is cathartic and good for the Web. It would be a lot cooler if you would use your real name “domain shame” .. I don’t mind your pointed criticisms at all, but being taken to task by a big-man, hiding behind an alias, .sucks 🙂
Hello frank.schilling
R. E. = ” I see the good that could come from a string like .sucks ”
REALLY !!!!! JAS 4/12/15
“I see the good that could come from a string like .SUCKS …”
Theoretically, I agree with Frank Schilling on that.
Right now the debate is mainly about large actors – ICANN and the Vox Populi registry that runs .SUCKS. Most of the criticisms leveled at them seem justified, and the presumption of bad faith extends pretty far – to the point that people are unable to envision .SUCKS being used well. Maybe that has overshot the mark.
The domain industry is no stranger to extortion masquerading as proffered opportunity, and .SUCKS may turn out to be the apotheosis of shake-down rackets. Yes, some registrants will hold brands hostage and send .SUCKS ransom letters. Yes, the registry itself will profit from that behavior. Yes, Parry Aftab is right (I think) that .SUCKS has opened up a Pandora’s box that might make cyber-bullying and revenge porn harder to take down. On balance, .SUCKS may do more harm than good.
But that isn’t the whole story.
Apart from the big actors (ICANN and the Vox Populi registry) and aside from cybersquatters, there is (after all) a class of registrants who would register .SUCKS domains to air complaints that might otherwise be muffled. Even in the best of cases, there are 2 sides to every complaint; so any .SUCKS domain will always annoy somebody.
Parry Aftab says, “.SUCKS is designed to make money on pain.” Regarding the registry, yes. Regarding cybersquatters and blackmailers, yes. But not regarding the ideal registrant. That person would be paying money in order to cause pain, which sometimes is an indicator of legitimate protest.
There really is a need to level the playing field online, to give consumers the opportunity to air complaints, to spread negative reviews, and even to leverage some platform for redress of grievances. ANY such mechanism will inevitably be abused. All free speech (if it really is free) invariably is to spew insults. That comes with the territory.
If you’ve ever had a landlord pocket your $1,200 security deposit in order to have a “cleaner” feather-dust the blinds of just 2 windows … and had the bastard laugh in your face asking you “What are you going to do about it?” then you understand the potential usefulness of .SUCKS.
If your registrar allowed hackers to steal valuable domains and then threw up road blocks to prevent transfers out, well, you’re fortunate that domain industry bloggers will complain for you. But if they didn’t, if their advertising relationships created an impermeable membrane against criticism, then you might look to .SUCKS.
When customer service doesn’t respond, or when comments are blocked / erased, or when reputation management firms systematically vacuum up the public’s past negative feedback, or when legal henchmen use strong-arm SLAPP tactics to silence dissenting opinion … then theoretically .SUCKS could be used as a way to compensate.
Years ago, I bought Nuisance.com, which I keep in my back pocket as insurance in case I need to act as gadfly or in case I’m outmatched one day by censorship of some kind. I have considered developing it as a platform for Davids vs Goliaths. However, when a system is designed expressly for the purpose of expressing negative views, there is a huge risk of abuse and a need for constant policing. Really, I don’t know how it could be accomplished benignly. So in part, I look at .SUCKS as a dry run … the first line of infantry getting mowed down by machine-gun fire as soon as it jumps above the trench to charge.
.SUCKS seems to be doing a terrible job. The main problem would be the registry’s price structure, which seems to put .SUCKS domains out of the reach of the little guys (who might use the TLD well), instead targeting the major brands (who apart from feeling extorted by the registry, will simply render .SUCKS useless to the protesters who arguably need it). To me that seems like a plan that’s either ill conceived or disingenuous.
To me it looks like .SUCKS will do more harm than good. But it might do some good, and the future remains to be seen. There might be a beneficent impulse buried somewhere underneath all the stinking greed. Who knows? Setting aside ICANN and the registry, individual registrants will account for any good .SUCKS accomplishes. There’s going to be plenty of bad. That’s certain.
So, theoretically, I agree with Frank Schilling when he says, “I see the good that could come from a string like .SUCKS …”
It’s horseshit you know it and everyone knows it. JosephPetersonsucks.com available I guess you should register that. Fran has own Frankschilling sucks.com for a number of years.
Depends on whose motivation we’re talking about:
ICANN? Some horse shit.
Registry? Mostly horse shit.
Cybersquatters / Blackmailers? Entirely horse shit.
Registrants with complaints? Some horse shit.
But that doesn’t add up to 100% horse shit. Just 98%.
I’m allowing for the 2%.
Joseph Peterson does not suck, thanks for the comment Joseph.
Hello Joseph Peterson,
Frank Schilling is a mesmerizing Bluffer, who you dare not play russian roulette withyour money and not his. Just an observation,take it for what its worth.
Anyhow Joseph you are right , the 2% margin of B.S , Its the 2% B.S. factor that has bankrupted otherwise Smart Money. Here me when I say Frank Schilling is unknowingly being mesmerized By Googles so called dominance and support, he,s 100% sure he is right.The 2% probability that Frank Schilling is misreading things is looming in his Vulnerable Zone. We say he is Gambling not only with his money but others. Be carefull People We have witnessed Pied Pipers who are now homeless. Be carefull People with your hard earned $. This is coming from an old sage such as Rick Schwartz and of course ourselves. When the smoke and mirrors recede the Goole sages will be swimming naked.
JAS 4/12/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Hello Ray MHB,Jamie,
The Big Picture :
We all should be angry. This whole GOOGLE and ICANN power grab should be exposed for the good of all Small Business Online Expansion. Its a deeper issue that has long gone unfettered and accepted so a few rich concerns could flourish at the expense of the Middle Class Businessman. JAS 4/12/15
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)