Namepros member Wot posted a thread a few days back where he asked the community what they thought about a certain situation involving a domain registration and it ending up in the account of the CEO of the registrar.
At first he could not give the full details, he has now given the full name and posted the whole story on his blog.
From his blog post and Namepros:
I “registered” Weather.id with OnlyDomains.com
Received confirmation On 26 Aug 2014, at 18:31, applications@onlydomains.com wrote:
Thank you for your recent order with Onlydomains, your global solutions provider.
The notice has been sent to you to confirm that we have received an order for the following products: 1. DOMAIN CREATE: weather.id , Term: 1 YEAR(S), Price: USD 79.00.
The .id Registry is not automated, therefore the registration process is manual. Registrations will be granted on a first come first served basis, for applications with completed and correct documentation.
For a company, business or individual located outside of Indonesia:
Please provide the following information.
– a Local Presence Agreement and POA (Power of Attorney) documents attached to this email.
4)
From: ME
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:13:02 AMidapplications@instra.com (idapplications@instra.com)
Completed attachments – a Local Presence Agreement and POA (Power of Attorney) documents attached to this email.
Plus copy of passport
5)
From: ME
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:39:46 AM
To: idapplications@onlydomains.com (idapplications@onlydomains.com); idapplications@instra.com (idapplications@instra.com)I see the name is still not registered.
What is the problem?
A response would be appreciated.
Thank you
OnlyDomains is a reseller of Instra and now he receives an email telling him
Unfortunately the domain name weather.id is not available to register.
Occasionally our registration system does not correctly detect if a domain name already exists.
In some circumstances, the domain name may appear on a non-published reserved/banned list, and for this reason, it may appear that the domain name is technically available to register.
This order has now been cancelled and a credit will be applied to your account.
He rechecked the Whois. The name has now been registered by the CEO OF Instra Tony Lentino!
You can read all the details on his blog
This does not smell good, it would be nice for Instra to explain how this happened.
Wow. You right. Something sounds fishy in Indonesia.
I experienced something similar earlier this year with another registrar.
I had reserved cuff.links through 101domains last year 2013.
Right before the .links extension came out, I received a similar email stating that the domain was not available for register. On that same day, I did a who is search and found it was registered to a guy in the virgin islands.
I thought that was weird and I was a bit upset.
Needless to say, I transferred all the names I’m keeping out of 101domains. I no longer deal with them.
No seeing the issue here at all. The service provider told the customer that the TLD is manual, not automated, and the domain name may not be available. Seems his application for this name was not the only one to reach the registrar, and not the first one either. If there is two manual processes in the queue for the first name, the first one received would win, even if the difference is in the milliseconds. And as the domain is not yet registered with the registry, the domain would show as available as well.
You don’t think it is a tad strange the owner of one of the registrars got it instead ?? …. if it quacks like a duck .. well you know the rest .. don’t you?
Unless there are other indications, not really. Everyone has the same chances.
Good grief Volker, just how much of a smoking gun do you need?
As General Council to a Registrar and also a vice chair of the GNSO at ICANN, I’d expect a far less dismissive response from you. What “other indications” could you possibly need that he has not included in his blog post? That’s just ridiculous.
Also, seeing as this practice is most assuredly prohibited by ICANN, your response becomes even more troubling… perhaps you did not actually take the time to look at the evidence he’s presented? If not, I would suggest you do so before continuing to defend the Registrar in your comments. Clue #1: look at the timestamps of communications AND the timestamp of the actual registration… oops!
First of all, this is a ccTLD, not a gTLD, so different rules than those of ICANN apply. Secondly “this kind of behavior” is something that would need to be proven. For all we know there may have been a prior registration at Instra for a third party whose details are protected under whois privacy, just as the registrar and his resellers claim. Why is the name of the CEO of the registrar in the whois? I do not know, but possibly the registration policies require a name to be there, and they chose to take his for the service.
If you register through a reseller, you always have the risk of delay and depending how the cooperation is set up of the registrar preferring his own direct customers over those of their resellers. We treat them equally, but other registrars may operate differently.
How much of a smoking gun do I need? How about actual evidence, instead of circumstantial speculation and indications that could mean anything. Sure, he may have a case, and if this goes into discovery, who knows what evidence may turn up, but right now, I’d reserve judgement.
Does it have to be so? No, but neither does the complainant have to be the wronged party here. If he thinks he has a case, he should try his luck in court.
Wow… Seriously?
Trouble is, you’re not reserving judgment at all. You are falling all over yourself to explain how this isn’t “a duck”. …and not very convincingly either.
Reason #23 why not to use Moniker anymore.
I agree with that part Volker, you can have someone get there before you got there, have experienced losing out on a domain that was manual registration to another registrant. Never the CEO of the Registrar who I submitted all my info to. I think that is the point Wot is trying to make. It was the CEO of the Registrar not just some random person on the Internet. That makes it completely different in my opinion.
Volker- you need to read the relevant info on my blog -hope that is OK that the link was posted earlier?
Briefly:
OnlyDomains.com received my application,I then sent requested documentation to Instra.
It was two days after “registration” and one day after the sending of the documentation that the CEO of Instra, and I now believe owner of OnlyDomains.com registered Weather.id in his name.
Again, read the full thing on my blog referred to in the initial post..
Couple of things:
1) Where should the CEO of a registrar register domains he wants for himself? Another registrar? It is normal to use the service he knows best.
2) You claim to have “registered” the domain name. This is not quite accurate. From what I can see is that you applied to register, and placed an order. This guarantees nothing, only that they will try to register the domain name for you when the time comes and the domain is still available.
3) They never confirmed your registration, only your order. This is not the same thing.
Volker
Volker, the name was available when I registered it. It was not a landrush just a simple registration.
Two days after the initial “registration” and one day after the documents were in Instras hands I queried why the name was still available. Two hours after that it was registered by Tony Lentino.I have all the timescale.
You think that is OK and normal?
Incidentally, I have registered other .id with another registrar and the names were active within 4 hours with a simple requirement to provide passport and proxy forms within 30 days.
Why did I use OnlyDomains.com, because they were cheaper but as it turns out completely incompetent and shady to say the least and that’s being complimentary.
Hi Wot,
1) The name was available when you ordered it. You did not register it, you may have applied to register it.
2) While the domain name was shown as available, this does not mean that there weren’t already other applications for it in process at the same registrar.
3) Also remember that the registration process for ID is manual, i.e. not real-time. I am not familiar with the process at the registry, but could imagine that there are manual elements on their level as well and they only show a domain as registered when the process is complete.
4) You registered through a reseller of the registrar. The registration seems to have occurred at the registrar. Maybe the registrar has a policy to prefer their own applications collected up to GA and only processes reseller applications after their direct applications are in the queue. While KeyDrive registrars do not do this, others might. I do not know, I do not know their policy. But multiple applications for one name at one registrar are not uncommon.
5) Maybe only complete registration requests are queued. As you needed to provide other data, your request was not complete and entered the queue later.
6) What I have a hard time believing is that the CEO of a Registrar needs to be inspired by his customers. They deal in domain names all day and have been doing so for a long time. If the guy decided to register domain names for himself, he probably had the list ready way in advance.
7) It is always recommended to try to apply to register valuable domain names with more than one registrar as it improves your chances of actually getting the names. This will also allow you to find registrars that consistently perform better than others in launches. The only disadvantage of this is that you will have to prepay the fees more than once, but most registrars offer refunds for domains you did not get… We do…
Volker- I have been around a long time in this business.
I know how the processes work. I know probably know all of the scams and potential mistakes that domainers including myself can make.
This with OnlyDomains.com has a very fishy smell.
This is not sour grapes,I have little doubt I was ripped off.
But se la vie. Hopefully this will prevent somebody else from getting the same treatment.
Just one more other thing here.
OnlyDomains.com directed me to send the documents to Instra NOT to OnlyDomains.com.That is what I did,sent them to Instra.
And I repeat,it was over 24 hours after I had sent the documents to Instra and 2 hours after I queried non registration that the name was registered by Tony Lentino.
Just does not compute?
& Raymond
Same thing, read the whole thing on my blog referred to in the first post.
Sorry Raymond, you posted it! (-:
Volker, the link to my blog is right at the end of the first post by Raymond
volker works for moniker, probably has a biased view. its obvious that this is a domain they probably meant to reserve but it got missed until an application for it came across, it was then registered under the CEO’s name. pretty scummy if you ask me but it won’t be the first or last time it happens in this “anything goes” industry.
I am not aware of any applications for this name through any KeyDrive company, including Moniker.
My view may be skewed as a registrar representative, however I believe this different view adds value to the discussion.
You have added zero value in my opinion. Can someone tell me who he represents so I never do any business there.
Oh thanx cmac I did not see you mentioned Moniker.
Personally if I was Mr. Lentino i would transfer the domain to Wot if all of the facts laid out by Wot are true and correct.
The perception of impropriety is strong enough in this situation that the registrar would be better off to transfer the domain
That is one way of looking at it. My view is that a registrar should honor the orders it receives depending on either the order in which the complete and fully paid orders were received or in accordance with their communicated order handling process, if different.
Simply taking the domain away from its owner, whoever it may be is not the solution.
Sorry Volker but in the world we live in today, if something smells of impropriety even if it was not, a company should do as Michael pointed out, because you don’t need actual impropriety today to ruin a business, just the smell of it.
Seriously? So all you need to do in case you do not get what you want is throw around some wild and unproven accusations and everyone will agree that was the right thing to do?
If what he said is true and is proved yes. If you read his blog post things don’t seem to be wild or unproven.
Volker
I said in my comment that Wot should get the domain ” if all of the facts laid out by Wot are true and correct.”
Clear right
“Simply taking the domain away from its owner, whoever it may be is not the solution”
“Whoever it is” is they key here no?
A classic piss off.
“Thank you for your email.
The customer of ours who owns this domain name has opted for whois privacy that is why Tonys information is currently listed on the domain until the whois privacy details are updated.
Please understand that the domain is not registered to us, as you can imagine we would have no use for that domain being a domain name company not weather reporters.
If you wish to contact our legal department over this matter please feel free to contactlegal@onlydomains.com
If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us,”
Incidentally, when I was searching for potential registrations I am fairly sure I never found one in privacy!
Anyway, done to death now- CAVEAT EMPTOR
OnlyDomains does not offer whois privacy on the new gTLDs as far as I know. I registered quite a few domains with them in various new TLDs and NEVER was whois privacy available. They might have opened it somehow for .id, but more likely they are taking you for a ride
Hi Leo,
.id is cctld (Indonesia) not gtld.
But still think I’m on a ride! (-:
If they really wanted to cheat, they would use some fake name, in my extremely humble opinion.
Forgot, just an aside.
Prior to the “registration” of Weather.id I had tried to register CreditCard.id also via OnlyDomains.com, 3 days and nothing happened not even “send documents” so I told them to cancel and refund with a view to using the other registrar.
I subsequently used the funds to register Weather.id which I knew was a really good domain and I had plans for it.
Concentrating on Weather.id I put CreditCard.id to one side,after all it was 9 days after the start of open registration should be OK for a day or two?
Guess who registered CreditCard.id?
Volker
You know I’m now kind of curious why you are so vehemently defending this conduct?
You say you work for another registrar, so you like I are in no better position to know what went on here.
Why are you defending Instra when you don’t know independently any of the facts
You have heard from the domainer who alleges to have placed the order and the only thing we may have heard from Instra is that they name is under Tony’s personal name because the end registrant wanted privacy
Now i have been in this domain business since 1999 and I have never heard of the CEO of a registrar putting his own name on a domain registration when the customer asked for privacy
makes no sense and not the way as far as i know anyone has conducted business.
I didn’t see Bob Parsons name on “private” domain registrations at Godaddy or Monte’s name on private domain registrations at moniker or anyone else.
So right now I’m not like 100% all in on Wot but his argument seems compelling and the arguments against his ownership range from what i would classify as bad excuses to plain old silly.
Yet I still understand why you are spending the kind of time and now in a way putting your own reputation on the line to support a position your not involved in.
As far as the argument “no one wouldn’t be stupid enough to have done it this way if they were gaming” i would just point you to the snapnames.com bidding scandal, where the same bidder ID was used to inflate bids into the tens of millions of dollars.
Hi Michael,
you seem to be insisting there is untoward conduct. I am not convinced. There may be, but there is no evidence to that effect.
As to the setup of the privacy service, this could very well be a requirement of the ID TLD (guessing here), that may require a person to be listed in the whois. In .DE you need to have a person listed, so it is not far fetched to assume the same for other TLDs. In other words, seeing the name of the Instra CEO on the whois record may mean nothing at all.
Why I am spending the time? I am annoyed in the trend of blaming registrars for anything going wrong on the internet. I have spend countless hours of my private time representing the interests of our customers against ICANN demands, government demands and LEA demands, so seeing registrars getting flack for the simple fact that they were unable to fulfill a registration request because more than one customer tried to register the domain is annoying.
Finally, I also have a hard time following rule number one of having an argument on the internet. It is a fault of mine, if you will.
See you in LA?
According to Pandi Whois privacy is not allowed on .id
The following is from Pandi’s main registrar in answer to the question ” is Whois privacy allowed on .id domains”:
“Response to your email about privacy Whois. Sorry sir, for Whois privacy not available, because it is the provisions of the PANDI as business domain name in Indonesia.”
That might be a problem for the owner of the domain name in the long run, depending on how Pandi enforces this rule.
You would think Instra would know this?
Michael – You are flat out wrong in your conspiracy theory here. Volker is 100% correct. I have no affiliation Instra, no do I know Tony. It is very irresponsible journalism to make accusations based on speculation and “Bob Parsons and Monte” did not do it that way. If I were Tony, I would probably seek legal counsel and consider take action. Why don’t you check Marcaria and see how they register a COM.AR domain name when you are not a company or resident of Argentina. This is not the .COM world. The .ID registry happens to have a local presence requirements. It is likely that Instra registered a company in Indonesia in Tony’s name because well, he is the CEO and it makes sense that he owns the Indonesian company. Too many people…with too many keywords and not enough facts to go around.
DNT
According to Pandi Whois privacy is not allowed on .id
The following is from Pandi’s main registrar in answer to the question ” is Whois privacy allowed on .id domains”:
“Response to your email about privacy Whois. Sorry sir, for Whois privacy not available, because it is the provisions of the PANDI as business domain name in Indonesia.”
Then would Instra not be in contravention of the registries policies? Just a question from one of those very ordinary domainers searching quality keywords.
Yes we will be in LA
Just in case there is anybody still interested apart from me.
http://monikerblog.com/?p=990
One wonders why Tony Lentino is still listed as the owner! Are they having trouble finding the details of the “other” customer?
The Weather.id Whois has now been updated to a Chinese registrant.
To keep the weirdness going CreditCard.id is also now showing as registered by the same Chinese registrant
To multiply the weirdness xfold he is a guy who bought a name from me via a Sedo just a few weeks ago!
My head is spinning!
Been in contact with China and it appears that everything is kosher just massive coincidences!
CLOSED