So as the new gTLD are rolling out and we see the pricing that many are carrying some of them with an annual renewal fees that reminds us of the .TV days I wanted to share a couple of personal decisions we made regarding our own portfolio.
As most of you know the .TV registry had premium renewal prices on most of all their good premium domain names until a few years ago when they accepted a one time premium payment and normal renewal fees.
However old legacy .TV domains that had an annual premium renewal fees still have those fees unless the owner drops the domain in which case its purchase for a one time payment with normal renew fees.
In March we had a decision to make.
A domain we owned Bahamas.TV was expiring and required a $500 annual renewal payment.
So we had to decide if we should continue to pay the $500 annual renewal fee for Bahamas.tv or let it go and see if we could acquire it on the drop.
We didn’t have a backorder at Name.com, which traditionally gets the vast majority of dropping premium .TV domains, so the chances that we would catch the domain with another registrar wasn’t great, but just a few days before the drop, I was able to get the domain name BahamasTv.com at NameJet.com for $98 with a normal .Com renewal fee of lets call it $8.50.
I don’t know what Verisign charged as the one time fee for the registration but I’m sure it was in the $x,xxx range.
So if I had to do it all over again, I would do the same
I’m happy to own BahamasTv.com for $98 with a $8.50 renewal fee than to pay Verisign $500 a year for life to keep the .TV domain
I would have loved to keep the .TV domain as well, the would have cost me $5K to keep for 10 years and it hurts the resale value of the domain.
On Sunday I got the domain DietCamp.com for $114 in a drop auction.
Once I won the auction I went to see if the new gTLD domain Diet.Camp was available to be registered.
I intended to register the domain if it was not already taken.
When I went to my registrar of choice the domain Diet.Camp was available but for a registration and annual renewal fee of $233 a year.
I passed.
I’m good with DietCamp.com for my $114 one time purchase and my $8.50 renewal fee.
It will be interesting to see how these premium new gTLD renewals work out in the long run.
I have registered some new gTLD domains that carry a premium renewal fee.
I think a lot of them are worth keeping but a lot more will not be worth keeping.
A registry offering domains with a premium renewal rate of $500 / year is comparable to a domain owner offering to lease a domain for $500 / year.
For an end-user buyer, the 2 are indiscernible.
For a wholesale buyer, however, neither plan works well. Would I want to lease a domain from another investor and then try to sell it? That seems awkward. Well, the same thing applies to premium renewal rates, doesn’t it? They not only raise the holding costs tremendously. They also restrict the follow-on sale. Instead of offering buyers a single lump-sum payment option, we’re forced to seek a lump sum PLUS a continuation of the lease. And that’s a tough sell.
People unfamiliar with the domain industry would say, “Great! It cuts out those unnecessary middle men / cyber squatters.” But the fact of the matter is that domainers do a large share of the marketing for registries. Those same registries, on their own, will place fewer domains with the brands who could use them.
@Joseph Peterson
Insightful comment. I agree 100%.
@Michael Berkens
You said “I have registered some new gTLD domains that carry a premium renewal fee”.
Can you give us some examples, and please relate it to the Bahamas.tv article, how they’re similar, or how they differ. I was stunned to read this from you. It is an important article coming from you, but it’s not fully baked. If it’s bad for verisign to do it with Bahamas.tv, how can it be okay for the New Registries? Why would you buy such premium-rated New G’s If Bahamastv.com is a better substitute, why isn’t same logic applicable to the new tlds and the dot com variants?
Thank for the insight Michael.
This is great insight, as the same term is stated above by Mike.
As the majority of quality terms in GTLD’s carry $80 to $100 premiums, the bulk being $250 it is fair to say that the $8 annual .com will reign supreme as the better investment.
The registries that do not charge a premium simply reserve all the premium terms internally, shutting the door to entry once again.
Either way, where does this leave you, searching out a great .com once again. This coming from MB really reinforced what others have been saying in real world terms.
Should say majority of gtlds are $80 to $1000.
Ie) budget.domains which remains unregistered at a $1,000 a year renewal
I don’t agree. Although there are exceptions, I think the market value of .tv domains is significantly higher, these days, than tv.com domains, with Bahamas.tv being significantly more valuable than BahamasTV.com. While getting BahamasTV.com for $98 may have been a very good deal, I don’t think letting Bahamas.TV simply drop was the best course of action. I think with some outreach you could have sold that domain for some decent money, despite its $42/month maintenance cost. Of course you may not have had the time.
I don’t think the same necessarily applies to the new GTLDs. Not only has .tv become, over the years, an established, well-known, 2-letter, universally-recognized extension, but I think .tv domains will become more and more valuable as the Net becomes more easily accessible on home TV screens and higher connection speeds become the norm so that a domain can essentially be used as a TV station.
We’re paying $500/month for Law.tv and Politics.tv, and $1,650/month for Credit.tv, but are not about to let those drop.
@Jon Schultz
Based on the two presentations, yours and Berkens, I believe the latter is far more compelling. As a domain name investor, I see more practical sense in what Berkens revealed, than a pie in sky approach espoused to the contrary. $1,650/mo for Credit.tv is unbelievable. You can lease Sex.com for that kinda money!
I’ll like to add that it is not yet proven that cross-platform approach is always successful, when it comes to Consumers. For example, the 1800 Numbers are very successful when it comes to telephones, but has found only limited transference to the web; a handful of Companies such as 1800Flowers.com has managed to do the migration, however a vast number of domain investors who tried to capitalize on the 1800 nomenclature, have found limited success.
Therefore, when it comes to Television, it is not conclusive that Consumers will adapt to keywords, rather than numeric, and Call letters, such as ABC, CNN, MTV, CBS, NBC, FOX, Channel 7, Channel 2, and so on.
Sure there are exceptions, like Food network, History Channel etc.
But even there, it exposes orthodox myriad variations. Network, Channel, complicates things for the keyword investor.
Actually I made a mistake there, I meant $500 and $1,650 per year, not per month. But you still couldn’t lease Sex.com for anywhere near $1,650 per month…
@Jon Schultz,
I understand. My approach to domaining, which is purely fact based, is designed to catch the Wrongs, but the Mistakes as well.
Guys
There are a few other factors at work
Over the years we did not receive any meaningful offers on Bahamas.tv
Obviously if we were getting a stream of offers even if if low, we might have kept the domain but we didn’t offers or interest so its harder to write the $500 check every year
Worst comes to worse someone buys and develops the .TV and comes back around to buy the .com
Second
Michael,
Would you apply the same logic to .me and do you think MeetMe.com could ever sell fro $450K (domain only)?
Domenclature.com
I’ll give you one example
‘
Yellow.diamonds
Carries a renewal fee of less than Bahamas.tv
A decent yellow diamond sells for low six figures a yellow diamond with really good color and less inclusions will set you back high six figures and up into the seven and eight figures for one stone.
I’m Ok paying a few hundred dollars to “control” a space like that.
“I’m Ok paying a few hundred dollars to “control” a space like that”. – Berkens
This is why I disagree with you a lot. How are you “controlling” a space with that name? You ain’t controlling nothing with that yellow.diamond. It’s not even visible. The same space is occupied by diamonds.com, yellowdiamonds.com, diamond.com, yellowdiamond.com, jewels.com, gems.com, gem.com, stones.com, and son…
Your little new gtld is not in control, sorry.
How much is yellowdiamonds.com?
or Diamonds.com?
I don’t know. But before you respond, realize that we’re talking about ‘control’, and not value. And to prove that you’re aware of this, I point to the fact that you never revealed how much the premium for yellow.diamonds is. I want to know, if you don’t mind.
Les than the $500 a year of Bahamas.tv
That’s too much, whatever it is.
BTW Bahamas.tv is forwarding to Choose.tv, probably an Italian outfit.
Interesting story – gracias.
Punk
.Me never had premium annual renewals
Hard to say what I would have done had they charged it.
Sorry,
I see it has been a while since the last comment on this threat but I am about to decide whether to buy a Keyword.TV domain or KeywordTV.com domain.
Jon has said:
–I don’t think the same necessarily applies to the new GTLDs. Not only has .tv become, over the years, an established, well-known, 2-letter, universally-recognized extension, but I think .tv domains will become more and more valuable as the Net becomes more easily accessible on home TV screens and higher connection speeds become the norm so that a domain can essentially be used as a TV station.–
And I agree with him. .TV is really recognized and intuitive. And with the disappearance of premium renewal fees .TV will get himself a better spot on the net. Not to mention the increasing demand for multimedia by the internet users. Internet users love watching videos instead of bothering themselves with reading stuff.
Anyways, my question is which one would you go with? Would you go with Keyword.TV or KeywordTV.com.
Let’s say they both have the same prices xK$?
Thanks a lot
Serdar
I see many more Keyword.TV sales than KeywordTV.com sales reported at DNJournal these days, Serdar, and at much higher prices as well. There will always be exceptions, but I think the trend at this time is clearly in favor of Keyword.TV.
Please excuse my late reply but I just read this post.
I believe that it was a prudent move, to let it drop, Michael. I am a big believer in the .TV extension and have a large number of sales, a great many being acquired by end users. I also hold a meaningful portfolio of premium .TV domain names. Not one of the .TVs in my portfolio carries a premium renewal.
I believe that looking at the cost to hold, even, a $500/year premium renewal over 10 years diminishes the desirability in most instances. It makes the domain name a very hard sell.
In addition, I believe that it’s not an optimal business policy to penalize your oldest customers, those who believed in this extension from early on. I believe that the legacy premium pricing policy does just that.
Michael, with the $2,500 – $5,000 you have saved over the next 5-10 years, you can acquire a very nice premium .TV with a standard renewal, if you choose to do so.
Claude
@Jon,
Yeah, I think I feel closer to the idea of acquiring Keyword.TV.
@domains90210,
What would be the premium .TV domains in the range of 2500-5000$. Are you selling premium .TVs in that range? Can you give some examples? May be I will consider them if they are better than the one I am after currently.
Thanks