In the public forum at the ICANN Meeting, Chairman of ICANN Steve Crocker told the crowd that when it comes to excess funds coming from application fees and auction proceeds, they don’t know what they are going to do with the money, only that the excess money will will not be coming back to the applicants that paid the money.
“On the subject of application funds received, we heard it’s not ICANN’s money.”
“We have been asked “when will applicants get their money back? What will happen with auction funds? What are we going to did about all that?”
“I’m sad to tell you we’re not going to give you the money back.”
“We’re going to recognize that we’re stewards of this money for sure.”
“We acknowledge the questions. but it’s too early in the application process to consider, exactly what’s going to be.”
“When we have a better understanding of the financial picture we will carefully consider and consult and report.”
“We will have a full and careful process about dealing with the funds, there’s way too many risks and uncertainties for us to make decisions different from what we have made before.”
This is a troubling development for new gTLD applicants in that ICANN has said all along that the application fee was for cost recovery of processing the applications. ICANN has budgeted virtually nothing coming in from auctions of extensions with multiple applications which I estimate could easily bring in tens of millions if not hundreds of millions more to ICANN.
Many applicants assumed that a portion of the excess fees including auction proceeds collected by ICANN would be returned to the applicants.
People were ADVISED to take the 100% REFUND
The U.S. Federal Trade Commission wrote ICANN a 15 Page Letter – IGNORED
Will Applicants now have a Class Action Suit to get their money back ?
Let me confirm this is a huge scam like the registry itself, and auctions etc, supported by the commerce dept, with Virginia senators claiming their stakes for their Virginia constituents, including CIA. Dont be fooled, fight.
I don’t think ICANN ever set an expectation that money would be returned if it took in more money than expected. It specifically said it would let the community decide how to use it.
While it did say that the program was on a cost recovery basis, that was all based on projections of how much it would cost to cover historical and future costs.
If I were a new TLD applicant, I would push for the money to be used to promote the existence of new TLDs when they start rolling out.
“Let me confirm this is a huge scam like the registry itself”
YEP!!! and people were warned and as Bernie Madoff said: “EVERYONE had to know”
Now – The Ethical Dilemma for some people is whether they should disclose other .STUFF
Unfortunately – Many disclosures are censored – so people do not speak
and the insiders bank on people being silenced by the public that does not want to know – Yet – Everyone had to know.
“If I were a new TLD applicant, I would push for the money to be used to promote the existence of new TLDs when they start rolling out.”
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Sounds good BUT – ICANN and the I* insiders DO NOT WANT any new TLDs (unless they profit)
There is no “Roll Out” – The I* insiders want slow – secret – soft-money – money under the table
That $350,000,000 will vanish in all sorts of cost-recovery activities – In fact, the $350,000,000 has already vanished because it is “Under Management” – ICANN does not have it 🙂
BTW – People should have been around in the days when APNIC was moved over-night from Japan to Australia – It was a Corporate Shell Game – It was all swept under the rug as “Financial Irregularities”
Wake up people – there is NO ICANN CEO as of July 1st until Oct. 1st
what do you expect when dealing with a bunch of unelected technocrats and officals/lwayers?
a moneymaking scam
and I lol’ed everytime the icann panel said ‘the community’ on big reveal day
community my arse, they wouldn’t know what that meant if it punched them in the gob
the only upside is those applying have more money than sense and greed got the better of them
“the only upside is those applying have more money than sense”
In the 2000 Round – People tossed $50,000 into the “ICANN Community” and got a T-Shirt
“community my arse, they wouldn’t know what that meant if it punched them in the gob”
The I* Insiders have lived in their little insular world since the 1970s telling each other the same lies. It is nearly impossible for the average person or even domain experts to grasp the depth of the I* Cult’s Self-Deception.
Government leaders with lifetime skilled politicians have not even been able to penetrate the I* Cult’s Star.Chamber. [[THEY]] are very clever and their scams are now larger and more famous.
Legal wrangling is on its way! ICANN can take the position of being of being the steward of the money but I can tell you there will be some bad blight around the corner. Why? Well, when it comes to money it causes detriment within and when the root of all evil, “money” rears its ugly head someone always gets bitten. In the case of ICANN refusing to return money to its applicants is just plain stupid and bad for business. Yes, they should have taken the refund but when there is a monopoly and applicants are extorted to maintain their branding then I would say it is racketeering at its best….Kev
If the money is returned to applicants it will be unfair to all those who did not apply because they couldn’t afford the 185k fee. Had they known that they might get part of the application fee back later on (which would technically be considered a discount), more people might have applied, and even the existing applicants might have considered applying for more gTLDs than they already did.
350 million from application fees, and (I estimate) another 150 million from auction proceeds, that will bring the total revenue for the first round to about half a billion dollars. If you add another couple of billion for all the future rounds that are going to be done in the next ten years, then ICANN could be sitting on close to 2.5 billion dollars. Application fees might be reduced in the future, but the total revenue will still increase if there is going to be tens of thousands of new applications in future rounds. I predict that ICANN will generate more money off of the auctions than what they would off of the application fees, so the auctions might actually become the primary source of revenue in the future.
Considering all these I believe that ICANN owes it to the Internet community to at the very least stop that 25 cent tax that is added to every domain name each year.
(just my opinion)
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“applicants are extorted to maintain their branding then I would say it is racketeering at its best”
The departing ICANN CEO is quoted as saying he did not encourage people to apply.
Who did advise .BRAND owners ?
Will ICANN spend $185,000 on lawyers advising .BRAND owners not to ask any more questions ? (i.e. Just go away and chalk it up as a “donation” to The.Community)
As one famous domainer pointed out: The $350,000,000 is pidgeon (pocket) change
Andrew
I’m not saying ICANN promised to return the excess funds however having spent the week here at the ICANN meeting mostly meeting with Applicants I can still you a LOT of applicants think that its only fair and right for at least a portion of these funds that were clearly indicated by ICANN as being for cost recovery get returned to those that paid the fees.
“a LOT of applicants think that its only fair and right”
1. Applicants were given a chance to get a 100% refund and they did not grab it
2. Based on Mike Robert’s comments (the first CEO of ICANN – who still claims he “runs ICANN) Applicants in 2000 were handled one-by-one AFTER the round – behind the scenes – and some Applicants were not disclosed based on law enforcement intervention
3. Secret reports now show ICANN has been paying secret companies to do software development without Applicant’s knowledge.
4. Applicants likely see there is little chance they will get anything but years of run-arounds. ICM Registry points out one has to be able to answer the Capital Calls and they did. Applicants have to be prepared to anti-up a LOT more than $185,000 in the coming years to stay in the game. If they do not answer the Capital Call, they are out. ICANN has their money to wear them down. 🙂
@ Michael – I’m sure they do 🙂
I’ve always thought ICANN’s math and cost recovery explanation was a joke anyway.
I’m curious how much they’ll actually pull in. With so many contested applications a lot of people will end up getting refunds as they work out deals et al.
Either way it’s a big haul, and ICANN will take flack for whatever it does for it.
ICANN changing its name to iCon.
“having spent the week here at the ICANN meeting mostly meeting with Applicants”
Another View:
Applicants Spent $185,000 on a Cheap ICANN Billboard
Applicants now need to get to market fast BEFORE the big ROLL.OUT in Toronto.Canada 🙂
Clueless Applicants without access to the right people and software will be left behind in the Darwinian ICANN Game.
Another View:
Applicants Spent $185,000 on a Cheap ICANN Billboard
BTW – Wait until Frank Schilling finds out how much it will cost him to talk to a real expert for one day. ICANN insiders get $1,000,000 a day.
“I’m sad to tell you we’re not going to give you the money back.” Money will be used for good things like Vacations, bonuses, transportation using private jets, big parties.
“Money will be used for good things like Vacations, bonuses, transportation using private jets, big parties.”
Don’t forget it will cost a bundle to pay off all the I* insiders.
To be ready for the big Toronto Roll.OUT it will cost Applicants several million dollars.
.INC .WEB .ONLINE .BOX should be ready to roll 🙂
@ Anunt said:
Genius! lol! 😀
“ICANN changing its name to iCon.”
FACT: Several years ago – ARIN announced their new choice for CEO after one of those exhaustive and expensive searches. The guy never showed up. Then ARIN pulled a new “perfect/ideal” candidate from their ranks to be CEO.
The I* insiders make up the rules and do as they please. They spin anything as the truth.
Details are starting to emerge on how the **alleged** new ICANN CEO came to be.
No one finds it strange that the current CEO has not been retained for a few months. [The past CEO (2 back) was paid $500,000+ as a consultant on secret projects for over a year after leaving.]
Was the **alleged** new ICANN CEO rushed in late in the process when the CEO selected decided NOT to show up ? Who was the real CEO selected ?
Will the **alleged** CEO really be there in October ?
Are the I* insiders testing to see if their scam holds together ?
It’s almost as if they’ve done no planning on the new gTLD program at all. Batching is now up in the air after their silly Digital Archery idea was easily broken and now this – not knowing how to spend money they could have reasonably guessed was coming to them. What HAVE they been doing exactly since the program was approved?
“What HAVE they been doing ?”
Getting a straight story about the inner-workings (or NOTwork) at ICANN has been surprisingly difficult. The employees seem to protect their hugely bloated salaries with a cone of silence.
Those that leave confirm that very little gets done. Many of the people are either coming or going to some important meeting/venue that they decide is important.
Those meetings at the health club and spa are important. Shopping for the trip to
Prague is important. Stopping by the HR office to change payroll deductions is important and can consume a morning.
The out-going CEO of ICANN gave one of the best explanations for what happens at ICANN in one of his off the cuff talks to ICANN Fellows (noobs).
He said a lot of people spend time cruising the net, reading blogs like this, and
then sending notes to others….such as: “Did you see that post about ?topicX?”
What is remarkable is how apparently smart rational people can sit all day and watch the paint dry. The bloated salaries help to explain how that is possible.
For $360,000 per year ($30,000 per month) many people could “act busy”.
For the few people who step out and push on the process, they eventually step on a land-mine and are ousted. The vast majority hide and “act busy”.
Unfortunately, the new gTLD program will give ICANN amples excuses for a huge staff of NOT-workers.
The more I read about ICANN, the more I worry about the future of the Internet…
“If the money is returned to applicants it will be unfair to all those who did not apply because they couldn’t afford the 185k fee.”
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There is also another “unfair” situation that is now emerging Post Big.Reveal.
gTLD Consortiums are now forming – sort of like small ICANNs.
Microsoft, Yahoo and others have one in the works. They are writing a letter to ICANN.
Because ICANN is “Open and Transparent” 🙂 ICANN has to let others in.
NON-APPLICANTS can now jump on various TLD Band-Wagons that are rolling.
This is a good kind of “unfair” because the I* insiders will have a hard time stopping some of the movements. .WEB is a good example. .INC is another.
If Non-Applicants want to get in on the ground floor of a gTLD now is a good time.
@Mike Mann
How right you are.
One gets the distinct feeling that ICANN just believes they can get away with this, the same way domainers get away with what they do (with a few UDRP’s here and there). Neither trademarks owners nor netizens will take action to stop them. ICANN and domainers are now one in the same: they are in the same game. They are competing for the same registration dollars, which is why some domainers don’t like ICANN.
Exploit the public resource at the expense of the public. It’s OK. Some might complain a little but no one is going to stop you.
The reason politicians cannot penetrate the I* cult is because those politicians do not understand DNS. If we had one politician who could write his/her own DNS server and didn’t like the I* insiders, the I* insiders would be in big trouble.
It’s like the judge in the Oracle/Google case. He knew a little about Java and he had little trouble dispensing with Oracle, Boies and their laughable infringement claims.
What keeps the I* insiders scams alive is simply a knowledge differential. The insiders are serious nerds (as one politician put it “They are their own people”) and they know what nerds know. Onlookers are perhaps sometimes upset at how things are handled but they are not nerds. They never will be. And as such they don’t and won’t know what nerds do. That keeps them on the sidelines.
It’s just knowledge folks.
“The more I read about ICANN, the more I worry about the future of the Internet…”
The fascist tecno-suits will screw the internet up beyond all recognition, they are already scheming to take control.
As for ICANN .canofworms
“What keeps the I* insiders scams alive is simply a knowledge differential”
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[[They]] are also very **manipulative** of agencies, populations and MONEY.
[[They]] create False.Flags and are not accountable for their actions (distractions).
[[They]] don’t game the system – [[they]] **create** (make) the system and game it behind the scenes
The ISOC CEO banks $687,000 per year doing largely nothing.
When noted, people comment: “Well [[they]] have to have some spending money”
The ICANN CEOs <— Yes "s" plural are now laughing all the way to the .BANK
Check out the recent letter from Microsoft & Yahoo – It CCs THREE ICANN CEOs – must be a Star.Fish organization ?
Applicants have to Petition US FTC to order ICANN REFUNDS
Quote-
“If you add another couple of billion for all the future rounds that are going to be done in the next ten years, then ICANN could be sitting on close to 2.5 billion dollars”
Everytime I read ‘telephone number’ estimates of Icann’s revenue, I keep thinking – “what does Icann really do?”
They ‘oversee’ registries and registrars and ???
They don’t manufacturer anything (like, General Motors, Apple, 3M, Boeing, Merck) so they have no material cost.
They don’t have to maintain any major infrastructure (like, Verizon, ATT, Google).
They don’t have to maintain huge office staff to handle 24/7 communications with customers (like, credit card and insurance companies).
They have zero risk unlike banks and investment companies.
Their ‘true cost’ of operation is low unless they create high expenses for their own gratification.
Therefore, almost everything they receive is pure profit.
Why should they share their profit by refunding a partial payment of filing fees? You are trying to take money out of their pocket.
I keep thinking – “what does Icann really do?”
It may help to study some history. ICANN was formed in 1998 to allow Jon Postel (IANA) to Cash.OUT. At the time, Vinton Cerf and Bernie Ebbers were running WorldCOM. Ebbers went to prison for the rest of his life. Cerf went to Whitehouse galas and Google.
It is claimed WorldCOM cooked $4 to $11 BILLION dollars in their schemes.
Some of that money was used to start ICANN. It was claimed to be a “loan”.
Some of the other billions found their way to people’s hands who still to this day
covertly fund non-profits that support ICANN (IANA).
IBM has been one of the major players behind the scenes since day one at ICANN. When IBM recruited Esther Dyson to be the founding Chairperson she
asked in a letter to IBM if it was “an important position”. At the time, Dyson prided herself on not having a computer at home. She now flys around almost 24×7 from the USA to Europe to Russia to India and back. Her daily consulting rate is published as $50,000.
Esther Dyson and Vinton Cerf regularly show up in all the annual venues like the Aspen Institute and the WEF in DAVOS. IBM, Deloitte, etc are of course also there.
In 1992, Vinto Cerf created the Internet Society ISOC to support the IETF which is Steve Crocker’s RFC factory. Cerf, Crocker and Jon Postel went to the same high-school together in Van Nuys, California. Cerf and Crocker are now Washington, DC area residents. Postel allegedly died in 1998. ICANN was not stopped when Postel was gone.
For years, the ISOC was viewed as “a problem” that would eventually go away. Becky Burr a DC attorney who used to be with the U.S. Government has often said “Never trust the ISOC”. The ISOC went from a few people to hundreds of people with the .ORG “endowment” from Vinton Cerf at ICANN. That is of course filtered thru the arm’s length PIR at $56,000,000 per year. The PIR gifts the ISOC $34,000,000 for doing largely NOTHING.
Governments sit and watch in amazement…
A star fish corporation. That made me laugh.
Speaking of Becky Burr, guess who he’s working for now?
The most amazing thing about ICANN is that they manage to control numbers (and names) for a netowrk of networks they do not own.
Telco’s are able to control phone number allocations, but generally they own or control the telephone lines.
So how the heck does ICANN/IANA/ARIN manage to pull this off? Maybe the answer lies in the history of backbones, like MCI’s, and early backboned nets like the one Cerf was behind.
After all, this is funnelling of everyting through central points is also how ISP’s came to be. There was a guy who stored and forwarded UUCP mail using his employer’s machine. A huge amount of mail and news ran through him (seismo) as a central point.
Then he got the bright idea to charge for access to mail and news and voila, an ISP was born: UUNet. And that’s also where some of the MCI crooks got their start.
The internet is just really corrupt. It’s a shame. Not everyone involved in these organizations is a bad apple. But there are way too many bad apples. And everyone just plays along. The only way to break away from this is to decentralise. People need to link directly to each other.
It can be done, but means going back to what things were like before the commercialization. People had to cooperate and trust each other to make UUCP mail work. And that’s what it will take to put an end to ICANN/ISOC-style corruption.
Ironically, the highest and best use of the internet may not be commercial. It may be the original use: academic and end-to-end, ad-supported and data center driven.
Hey, if you can get paid 635,000 for doing nothing, go for it. But don’t expect an iota of respect.
“So how the heck does ICANN/IANA/ARIN manage to pull this off?”
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Some call it “Consent of the Networked” – People are mostly clueless and/or apathetic.
Look at the ICANN Applicants – they are supposed to be smart, rich, educated people – yet armed with full knowledge of the 1998 to 2012 history – they walk into the ICANN Process to pay to be jerked around and have their money taken.
Governments say – “the Applicants were warned” – “move on” – “nothing more to see here”
Like the IAHC – ICANN is finished – the CEO has left the building – thanks for playing
“So how the heck does ICANN/IANA/ARIN manage to pull this off?”
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Another explanation is that you are dealing with a very small number of people who have been “doing as they please with Other People’s Money” for decades.
[[THEY]] do not think twice about what they are doing.
[[THEY]] grant each other permission to do as they please.
99.999% of people and Netizens are outsiders – you will never be part of their cozy club – and why would one want to be part of that group ?