This week on theDomains.com there has been a discussion of whether people should be allow to comment anonymously or should the ability to comment be limited to people who are willing to identify themselves
So I’m throwing the topic out for discussion.
Here are my thoughts;
As an attorney I have this freedom of speech thing sort of ingrained in me.
While I understand this people can hide behind can be used as a way to attack people or positions, I also understand that not everyone is comfortable with making comments using their real name.
Bloggers are used to putting our real names and taking ownership of what we are saying day after day, but not eveyone blogs and to some extent is yes people don’t want to put themseleves out there on every issue using their real name.
For example someone talking about a domain in an auction may not want to put his real name on the comment that they think the domain is overpriced, to avoid getting a call from the domain owner bitching about why he made a negative comment.
There are lots of reasons of why commentators want to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and they are all not for bad, malicious or evil purposes.
For me the biggest issue is that we are in an industry where its perfectly legal to use privacy to protect the identity of the real owners of a domain name, on the official ownership records of the central registry.
There are lots of reasons for using privacy as well and while some of these are to hide registration of TM domains or websites with malicious content and other shady issues, there are many valid reasons to use privacy.
So in an industry where its legal and perfectly acceptable not to even take “ownership” of a domain name, I think its tough to argue the same “protection” or option not to disclose your identity should not exist on a blog.
Personally I do not use Privacy and never have.
But the rules and rules and for now its still perfectly fine and dandy for someone to be the anonymous owner of a domain.
Of course things change.
TM groups have been pushing for Thick whois to apply to the existing extensions (like it will to the new gTLD;s) and the ability to register and hold a domain using privacy could go away one day.
I saw a bill for a new law floating around the UK this week that would hold blogs liable for comments made by anonymous commentators.
Of course if that was ever to become law in the US then our policy would have to change immediately, but for now I’m included to opt in favor of free speech, with the right to monitor and remove comments which I feel are abusive, well of topic, spammy or attack people quite personally having noting to do with events in the industry, that to close the channel off and silence those who are not brave enough to put their names on their comments.
I as well as you, are free to discount the authority you give such comments.
In my opinion a comment made under a real name will always in my book carry much more weight than one made anonymously, but there are a lot of relevant comments, good point and issues bought up and made by anonymous commentators.
As always I’m open minded on the topic and would like to hear what you have to say about it.
I think it is about responsibility.
I have a post I have been working on about anons and shill bidders. Here is a portion of it and I think you can take “Shill” out of the equation and replace it with “Slander” and worse. Anons have no rights to SLANDER just as they have no rights to be SHILLS. Same animal.
Some anon’s post responsibly on either side of any issue and I respect their rights to be private if they choose and then there are anon’s that post mean spirited bullshit that they made up. Assholes. Morons and worse. Can anyone disagree with that other than the second group?
Now let’s look at anon online bidding. Let’s just say for arguments sake that we are at 50/50 from the 2 groups above. 50% post responsible, 50% are assholes. Now when you take that equation to the next logical step, you have 50% legitimate bidders and you have 50% POTENTIAL SHILL BIDDERS!! Do you folks really want to do that just to INFLATE your prices and have folks pay more than market value?
So that is a portion of an upcoming post. But it works here too. Somewhere along the line legit folks have rights as well as those that hide behind a curtain and not posting an opinion in a responsible manner. I think that is the issue. You can’t yell fire in a movie theatre. Rights are not infinite.
See link.
It’s a very interesting question. Moot pretty much nails it all down. He obviously has a very robust and refined perspective on this, given the site he runs.
It will work either way, but the complexion of the comments will be very, very different if you demand the expression of everyone’s opinions be connected to their personal or professional lives.
all forum and blog should do that to avoid personal attacks, flaming, etc. but it’s not necessary if a blog has a low level o conflictuality between commenters
I have no respect to those people who blog behind girls’ skirts and using nicknames that have no links unlike “BullS” which has more credibility and respect.
The best solution, imo, is to monitor and remove any attacking/disparaging emails.
The important thing is the content of the post, not who is making the comments.
Remove or ban .com as there is no link to who s/he is, ball-ess commenter.
Rick
“‘Rights are not infinite””
Well actually the courts are kind of split on this
Commentators should realize that company’s and others have sued to get the info from online publications and some have won that right through the courts and filed suit against the commentators.
So there is some degree of risk that a anonymous commentator will in fact wind up in a court of law one day and have to pay a lofty sum to defend themevles for the comments they made
So that everyone knows we do have and retain the IP address of every comment that is left.
Company’s have sued online publications to release anonymous commentators info:
http://gawker.com/5665766/youtube-comments-are-no-longer-safe-for-mean-people-on-the-internet
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090210/0337353715.shtml
However many times courts in the US have upheld commentators right to stay anonymous:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/06/us-yahoo-lawsuit-idUSN0661392320080206?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080908/0245002198.shtml
Here is a case from the UK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/01/sue-commenters-libel-daily-mail
Do you really want an answer ? Or do you not know. Of course the people that post anonymously will vote against it, and the people who do post their real name will vote for it.
Really a blogger should take the time to actually read all comments and look at what should stay and what should not.
Off topic anonymous comments should be removed.
If you are writing about a Traffic auction, then people talking about Rick running an auction is legit, talking about what he did 10 years ago not relating to the auction is not IMO.
Look it costs nothing to blog, if someone has so much to say start a blog at Blogger.com or Tumblr their free, and talk about everything and anything you like. On a blog that is not your blog, stay on topic.
Obviously, people who post in their own name have extra credibility, whereas anonymous posters deserve an extra level of scrutiny.
It is often abused, but there are legitimate uses. Employees may wish to comment without the blessing of their employers. People living under authoritarianism might be placed at risk, etc..
It is tempting to post anonymously sometimes. In particular, there is one SOB who often comments on this blog with his real name. The guy is so incredibly crass, nasty, and hypocritical –and any criticism of his actions is sure to bring a huge amount of vitriol. For example, the guy makes up rules which only apply to others. He is probably the biggest blowhard in the industry. Still, I prefer to post in my real name, even when squaring off against the guy. I can only control my own actions.
You won best blog of the year? (Congrats BTW)
So it seems nothing needs changing, just keep doing the same things you are doing.
@MHB How about switching to Facebook Comments?
I’m just fine with the way things are now with respect to nicknames & anonymous handels being used by posters and commentators…sure, some are used with malicicous & ill willed intent….but there are even more posts in this vein made by legitimate folks….MHB has done an excellent job zooming in on and analyzing the multiple perspectives and reasons for anonymous handles
BTW .. Who is LS Morgan ?
@MHB
Several are now making the case for blog insurance, here is a Bloomberg article
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aEqiwjlSjLZ4
Absolutely.
It would instantly raise the bar and take many of these comments out of the sandbox.
How would you confirm that the real name shown is a real name? Without confirmation, it’s just a false sense of security. At least allowing anonymous posting we are able to know how much weight to give a comment.
Do you want quantity of comments or quality of comments?
Quantity = anyone can post
Quality = you must be logged in to post
You can allow people to have a username that is not necessarily their real name but at least YOU know who they are.
Rob
I disagree with your premise that the majority of anonymous comments are of lower quality than those posted by people using made up names.
“You won best blog of the year? (Congrats BTW)
So it seems nothing needs changing, just keep doing the same things you are doing.”
True, if its not broke don’t fix it 🙂
I never post anywhere if I have to sign up with facebook, myspace, twitter and the like, I am not interested in joining these kinds of places just to talk.
The whole point of a username is so you don’t have to use your own name.
What would come next, you can’t have an avatar unless its your own face?
I prefer to post with my real name but don’t begrudge others to do so anonymously.
That being said, it’s a tricky situation for someone running a blog, particularly one with the traffic and comments that this one generates.
You don’t want to chill expression but I’ve noticed that there are comments that attack others’ personal reputations and defame their character. Allegations of fraud or other misconduct are also made by anonymous commenters. The question is would verification of identity prevent this. Maybe not entirely but it would likely reduce those types of comments to some extent.
Another option might be to install a plugin that allows the community to flag abusive comments. Weeding through comments to remove those that are objectionable is probably very time consuming. At least this way, you could use crowd sourcing to identify those. Still, it would require more time than you would likely prefer to dedicate to policing comments.
So, I don’t know, it’s a tough call.
I did not say that the “majority of anonymous comments are of higher quality”.
Anonymous comments are of lower quality, right?
Quality = you must be logged in to post
Absolutely not! Just moderate the comments and delete inappropriate ones.
Rob
Sorry my comment was off now adjusted
“”Anonymous comments are of lower quality, right?””
I don’t know about that.
It would take a pretty indepth study to figure that out and to figure out how many high quality comments we would lose if people would be forced to use their real name
I don’t agree with some comments here that because you won Blog Of The Year you shouldn’t touch anything. All that award means is that you are the best of the status quo. However, it also puts you in a leadership position in this industry. By far, the most immature and assinine comments come from anonymous posts. If we really want the investment world to start treating us seriously we need to clean house.
Having an online “debate” with someone who is posting anonymously is the equivalent of having a conversation with someone at a bar who is wearing a mask.
Though I generally do not like anonymous posters, I agree with Donna Mahoney that anyone can use what appears to be a real name, but is not. I mostly agree with RH. Having my own blog, I have no problem allowing posts that may be critical of my position on a particular matter, but when they come down to name-calling or irrelevant BS, I delete it.
Mike, though your volume of posts is considerably greater than mine, I would recommend that it is content, not the name of the Poster that needs to be monitored.
Whenever I submitted a “Letter to the Editor” I was required to include my name, address and phone number – which was called to verify the submission.
I’m no more a fan of the “I can hide and say or make up anything” world than I’m a fan of the “kiss-kiss, hug-hug” online world – the one where critical analysis is withheld so as to avoid a potential loss of affinity.
Call me a jackass, and rationally explain how or why that’s so, and I promise I’ll still respect and/or <3 you – because I value honesty and sometimes I'm blind to something, veer off without reflection, etc.
You want a seat at the table?
"Name, please?"
@Howard – I believe the answer to Donna’s post is that names should be linked (like you and I do).
I use initials or an alias when posting because I do not want my comments forever indexed in search engines. I see no reason to let the world know every detail of my life.
I have also had my blog comments used against me in UDRP’s and a federal court case, including my comments here at TheDomains.
While I didn’t say anything incriminating that doesn’t mean the lawyers will not try to twist things I say and/or attempt to paint some negative picture of me. which they did try.
If I had a blog I would personally weed out those who are maliciously attacking others. I’m not talking about those who state strong opinions but those who have to resort to low blows such as name calling. Calling someone an idiot or a moron only makes you look like one.
I have seen comments from those who use their real names be more vicious towards others than those who use a alias.
If you are going to call out a no name for making attacks you should hold that same standard for those using their real names as well.
Jeff Libert makes an excellent point.
*
Freedom of Speech extends to the right to speak one’s mind in a public space, and does NOT necessarily extend to a private blog or home.
So I would say that you would be well within your rights to require potential posters to sign in before being allowed to post, AND you have the right to censor utter nonsense–that is, if you wish.
When I come to visit your blog, I should conduct myself as if I were sitting in your living room; if I misbehave (such as breaking your furniture or blighting your blog with vitriol/porn/spam), then you have the right to show me the door.
Even if you just plain don’t like me, you can evict me–it’s your right.
However, the tone of your blog will change if you apply too heavy of a hand. So it all depends on the direction you wish to take and how much you can personally tolerate.
In short, it matters not what others think you should do.
*
I read the comments on TRAFFIC and I see 2 people, Rick and Mann, who made more malicious comments than ANY no-namer.
Rick called them almost every name in the book and Mann said lets KILL THEM.
LMAO. I think you need to start putting the real namers in check before worrying about a couple trolls.
Just my opinion on this of course.
I’m guessing the friends of these two will chime in next to let me know what a prick I am for saying this.
IMHO the ability to post anon is important and valuable. Where it goes wrong is when otherwise reasonable people take the anons too seriously or let them get under their skin.
A post without a real name, saying something controversial is TROLLING
Do not feed the trolls.
They’ve been on boards and blogs since the beginning, and are not going away. The only correct response is to ignore them. No one will fault you for ignoring anon posts, and no one should feel a duty to respond to such posts.
“Having an online “debate” with someone who is posting anonymously is the equivalent of having a conversation with someone at a bar who is wearing a mask.”
If that is true then why not ban fake avatars if its not your real face?. (but how could anyone police that?, passport photo and number etc?)
In the “real world” or a bar you don’t have to know everybodies name just to have a conversation with them.
“In short, it matters not what others think you should do.”
That’s true, its MHB’s choice at the end of the day. Its his blog.
As they say, you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
Have people use their real names if you must and/or with a link to a site, but once you start censoring comments than it’s no longer a discussion it becomes someones singular viewpoint. I know of a few tyrants blog’s that I stopped reading for that very reason… they can’t take criticism or participate in discussion that oppose their viewpoint and for me it’s all about the engagement.
“why not ban fake avatars if its not your real face”
avatars are not so important like post comments with real names or a link where anyone can find the author name
I prefer anonymity. 🙂
You’ve built a strong blog, one which receives a decent amount of attention. I don’t think it would be productive to require people to use their real names. People will just find a way to get around this. In the end it would be a waste of time. Keep up the good work, who cares about these characters.
If we were all in a room having a discussion, each persons comments would be evaluated by others based on content value and in some cases, effectiveness of delivery.
If in the middle of that group discussion, a phone rang and no one in the room knew the caller on the other end YET that person weighed in the discussion with equal weight, it might be interesting to hear their view point but at the end of the day, who and where is that opinion actually coming from? What is their agenda? What is the background motivation for their comments? All this is hidden from the group yet those that are present in the discussion have all their cards fully on the table.
The anonymous caller has an unfair advantage yet subtly gets grandfathered into the discussion as if he/she is on equal footing if allowed to speak. THIS IS THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM. Anonymity brings a third element into a discussion that isn’t certified and the degradation of the discussion begins regardless of the validity of the callers comments. The structural integrity of the forum is compromised, again without even taking into account the truth and relevant validity of the comments which may or may not be right on topic point.
Alternatively, if the third party’s comments were in some way flagged and highlighted as being different and not on equal footing and the full weight of being truly “anonymous” is strongly noted, like by putting them in a different color font than the certified statements, this would possibly remind the readers that these anonymous comments don’t hold the same equal weight as the comments being presented by vetted and transparent members of the group.
Why don’t the nationally televised Presidential debates allow anonymous callers to weigh in on the issues being discussed by the candidates? Obviously because the anonymity of the caller hides their motivations and agendas. In the same way here in theses blog and forum discussions, anonymous posters needed to either be identified or highlighted as being truly ANONYMOUS and not certified. Then their comments can be put into proper context within the medium and then and only then, evaluated for their truthfulness and relevance.
I thought about posting this anonymously but I might reserve that clear advantage for later, depending on how this post is received. 🙂 Any future posts in support of this post are probably just me supporting myself anonymously. I won’t belabor the point but I think you get the gist. Anonymity presents an opportunity and unfair advantage for the poster to potentially distort the truth.
Breaking News: Google, Private-Equity Firms Mull Bid For Yahoo
—
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204485304576646232054116582.htm
—
but the antitrust authorities NEVER can allow this deal
—
In an ideal world people could be told to use a real name and link to a site they own and all would be good.
In a real world, it takes a lot of time consuming due diligence and leg work to confirm identities…who do you expect to do this?
This is the internet people, let Mike use his time to run his blog and use your own intelligence to decide which posts you give credence to or not.
I personally think anonymity brings out the worst of our natures and stirs the inner troll. I think people should use their real names and I will henceforth use my surname in my comments too. I think it will raise the level of discussion and keep the shittiness, which has been overflowing lately, to a minimum.
In response to an email I just received, NO, I AM NOT ANONYMOUSLY POSTING AS CHRISTOPHER BON. I DON’T KNOW THE MAN BUT HE DOES LOOK A GREAT DEAL LIKE LARRY HACKMAN FROM THE TV SHOW DALLAS.
😉
It doesn’t bother me either way. I can see the benefit of both sides.
If I post I am willing to use my real information.
However, I think some anonymous posters have good points and are trying to avoid the backlash. They have said things many others are thinking. Other anonymous posters are just jackasses, but so are many non anonymous posters.
Brad
My view on the subject is that content rather than provenance is more important. Am I to believe that people discount entirely any and all information unless the source can be fully identified? I dont think so, I certainly give consideration to whatever is out there in the world whether ‘credited’ or not. Often the anonymous ones are if not conventionally useful then can certainly be the most entertaining.
Information with a source carries potentially more value as the source may be an authority on the matter in hand. The new UK law being proposed about strict comment liability I believe has no chance of becoming law without being watered down beyond recognition. We also have the small matter of prior law defending the right to expression among other ‘human rights’, freedom not to be punished for actions outside of our control, and of course legal protection for anonymous ‘whistleblowers’.
IMO just moderate the out of line abuse, commercial spam and worthless, unintelligible or repetitive maroonity and let the rest of the comments fly.
Rick is the same guy who flips out when he finds out that Chef Patrick looked up a domain that was in privacy. He wants everyone to post under their real name. If you remove anonymous post I can guarantee that any siginificant discussion that happens through the comments will be gone. The fact of the matter is those that use real names on blogs also make anonymous posts too. Yet they want you to believe they only use their real names. Right Rick? You coward!
I decided to post with a short acronym representing my site because I want to establish it at some point in the future. I only have intentions on making contributions that are positive, insightful and opinionated in a manner that well represents my views. cdb (Chicago Domain Brokers) is easier to recollect than my proper name, Brad Miller.
Real name or not doesn’t really solve much, since you couldn’t possibly enforce it. Then you’d just have the same anonymous comments but using fake names.
The question that bloggers usually face regarding quality comments is whether or not to mandate approval of comments before they’re posted. I think that’s a better answer – it takes work but that way it won’t stop someone who has something relevant to add but wants some privacy. Eventually the people that make irrelevant comments that never get approved will stop wasting their time, or they might actually improve the quality of their comments to get them through – either way you end up without the junk ever appearing on the blog.
First I hear about financial industry trying to pull this same shit on blogs, and now the domain industry.
For fucks sake the fed wants a task force to monitor everything said about them and policies.
This country has turned into a fascist state
where those in power, corporations, and insolvent banks will do everything to prevent the
truth from being exposed. Moussalini would be proud.
Just very sad to see the top domain blog now scared of the skeptics and opinions. The federalist papers served a purpose and role in defining the character of this country, and anonymously speaking without fear of retribution is paramount to preventing us from going fascist to full fledged communism.
I say fuck you to all of you once middle class now wealthy. All you care about is preserving your wealth and will do anything to prevent others from voicing opinions that could jeopardize your standing.
Sorry for the rambling but seeing the domain industry turn towards fascism is revolting and eye opening.
Occupy wall street and then some. Don’t forget your roots mhb and recognize what your wealth is turning you into.
I prefer using my real name.The domain biz is small but won’t be for long.This is where you learn from the guys thats been there and done that.Cheers, Kevin Davis
I read the blog regularly and it seems the spammiest comments originate from the .co guys and obscure conspiracy ramblings come from BigLie. They identify themselves in their links.
I agree that valuable comments are often made by anonymous sources.
I’d say keep it the way it is. Readers can quickly identify and filter abuse or spam.
Absolutely people should be required to use their real names. Google requires it. Facebook requires it, Just about every major news site requires it. Take this blog for example: http://bly.com/blog/general/how-much-work-is-social-media/
You can click on any name and see where they are coming from. I have a friend who has booked over $100K business just from people who are inspired by his comments, check out his site and portfolio and then contact him for jobs.
When David Castello, Elliot Silver or Ron Jackson leave a comment , it carries much more weight. IT also gets into the search equation which in turn delivers more traffic back to the site. Creates a back link for the commenter. And links this blog’s assets (it’s customer base) to people whose clout adds to yours. You can boast that this blog has over 10K comments, but from an advertiser perspective and also to add value to the brand for potential acquisition, it delivers a lot more ROI when you can say this blog has over 1o,ooo comments by people averaging over $100K a year in income, and controlling 2 million domains that attract more daily visitors then the NY Times and 10 times the combined evening viewership of can, fox and msnbc.
Today when you integrate with an app such as Facebook, the content is distributed and exposed to a wider audience. Think domaining.com can deliver a lot of traffic. Imagine 10,000 commenters whose comments are seen by a circle of 500 friends each, when those friends go to sites with the same app who display a box showing what your friends are reading right now. I can’t tell you how many people at Traffic commented on seeing my icon and headlines all per the web, on NBC, Wall Street Journal and on and on.
Not only do I think comments should be restricted to real names, but I also think the blog should command a subscription fee for the right to leave a comment. Why? Because that person gets a back link and promotion and ultimately business as I cited above. Or promotes and sells names. Shouldn’t Mike by creating the opportunity to find financial rewards, be entitled to compensation for doing so?
Restricting comments to paid subscribers puts skin in the game. It says “I am here to learn or grow” versus the anonymous person who is here for entertainment and makes comments that are not backed by experience or use for anything offered in the discussion.
Look at the sites that sold for the most money this year starting with $100 million for the 21-year old’s MySpace template site. All of the value came from a base of paid subscribers.
You might have less participation but higher quality. Which makes your blog the Ritz while the others are Holiday Inns with homeless people panhandling at the gates.
Are you building a business. Are you building the brand that will get quoted in the press and command higher rates to introduce new things. Is this a business or is it Occupy Mike. Where a bunch of freeloaders with nothing better to do, hangout on your land and pollute the discourse?
Why change something thats working so great for you…keep it the same!
I post with my real name but a fake pic…
Next thing you know, people are going to want their real pics on here…
Then, there will be no cursing on here…
Then, there will be complete sentences with correct punctuation…
I am voting to keep it the same…it’s working great for you…so dont change it!
Please don’t make me change my pic.
Anut
I always thought it was a fake name but a real pic.
)):
I am not so sure it matters if you use facebook or google. As in both cases you can still create fake names. There are plenty of fake facebook accounts. So how do you actually prevent anonymous people from posting? How do you decide who is a fake and who isn’t? You are now trying to control the internet.
I guess sooner or later, I might have to verify by credit card to submit a comment on a blog? The reason people comment on blogs is because of the ease of use. The fact that I can go on any domain blog and type my name and post. If you start making me have to sign up and take these extra steps to make a comment, even I, someone who uses their real name won’t even bother posting.
What are we trying to do here? Protect those people who don’t like the comments from a blog? Surely enough you can moderate the posts and not approve those that cross the line. But, to try to regulate it in a way where people must provide their real name is a stretch.
If this is something that needs to be done. Why does it have to start on a blog? Most of us are domainers. Let’s start with the basics, no more WHOIS privacy. Isn’t that why some of us put WHOIS privacy on certain domains? So others do not know we own a specific domain? Why do we use nicknames? Why does the author of this blog use MHB? Where does it stop? This is a great domain blog for a reason. Let’s keep it that way.
This provides great discussion but at the end of the day, without anonymous comments you will lose a lot of the interaction you receive on a daily basis! Good luck! Long time reader of your blog Mike.
You have a very successful blog, why rock the boat????
My personal opinion is that a strong selection needs to be made on the content of the comments, not the author’s name (which, on a public forum/blog, is just a placeholder as anyone could enter anything as his/her “real name”). For example, blatantly self-promoting or trolling messages should be moderated, regardless of what their author’s name is. As a matter of fact, Mr. “Cline” ‘s comments aren’t undesired because “Robert Cline” isn’t his real full name.
As far as I’m concerned, I see no reason for publishing my full name. Joe is a nickname coming from my real name: if you’d like to find it out, just do a quick whois lookup on my linked domain.
There are advantages and disadvantages of either method. Forcing everyone to wear an ID tag around their necks results in communication that is more ‘polite’ on the surface, but considerably less honest.
Anonymous communication can bring out the trolls and idiots, but your audience intuitively knows to disregard them, not to mention that you have the power to edit.
The real issue here is when anonymous entities post the painful truth.
There are deeply involved parties in the domain industry who hate that and want to see it stopped. There are some (one in particular) who have such out of control egos, they cannot endure any criticism whatsoever (ironically enough, this in spite of their being very forward about criticizing others online, making “sucks”sites about other people, even posting anonymously on this very blog themselves yet they’ll collapse into quivering jello whenever anyone criticizes them)
Do you want to fundamentally alter the operating model of the best domain blog out there to accommodate the neck-strap-name-badge group? If you want that, start a private forum. This is a public blog- yours to run as you see fit, but what you propose morphing into would definitely have a chilling effect on what you already got.
people who attach their name to blog posts are usually (=usually) promoting themselves as a professional, or promoting a business they own or have a stake in. usually.
and if that’s the case, then maybe they should have to bear the risk that whatever it is they’re promoting might be discussed, postively, neutrally or negatively.
the other thing is that no matter how much people want to believe in reputations and credibility based on supposed(1) authorship, people who post a lot of comments are rarely 100% consistent.
(1) this is the web, not real life- how do you know it’s not an imposter? even ip addresses are not definitive.
smart people say stupid things. stupid people say smart things. looking at the author of a comment and prejudging the content of the comment is probably not a good strategy to use 100% of the time unless you are a fool. a certain degree of “automatic filtering”, knee-jerk, emotional style, is inevitable. it’s part of being human. but if you go through life prejudging everything you encounter by some set of supposedly reliable criteria, you will miss a lot. and that includes what people type out onto the wire and onto the web.
mhb runs a good blog because he’s very tolerant. and that’s really not easy. so it’s to be commended.
every blog has a perspective it’s trying to advance. and accomodating hundreds of counterpoint or inane comments has got to be… for lack of a better word… annoying.
personally, i enjoy reading anonymous comments far more than ones that have some name attached to them. i get tired of seeing the same names. i’m interested in good info and ideas, not trying to put different authors into different categories which is what we all inevitably do by instinct. it’s too much work and as i said, people are rarely consistent. but that’s just me.
I use RAYY because it sounds and look better than my real name.
You still can look at whois search to check my real name…lol
Another major blogger asked the same question and he never did anything about it. Why? The more comments you can secure on your posts, the more interactions from a social stand-point = busier blog, thus the more advertisers and higher prices you can demand for ads. 1+1 = 2 here.
Ban anoymous comments and watch the traffic disappear. Go for it.
People using their real names and/or including links are trying to sell something or self-promote. In principle it’s not much different from so-called spam. It’s UNSOLICITED. It’s COMMERCIAL. And it’s very difficult to filter it out.
Boring.
I don’t think you need to require real names as some people use pseudo names as long as they can be verified via email. What’s next? Will Francois require bloggers to post their real name? If so, fusible will probably stop writing. He or She has been referenced in lots of press articles and was never mentioned by name. http://fusible.com/press-room
If someone is posting crap to your blog just block their IP but I wouldn’t require a FB login to post.
WBTDC
The important thing is not WHO is saying something, but WHAT is being said – ie the quality of the thought, or idea being expressed.
Credibility comes from the quality of the thinking – not from the side-issue of whether the moniker at the top of the piece is a ‘real’ name, or not…..Its a name. End of, imo.
And, being uncomfortable for some – in the contest of ideas – doesn’t seem to be a good reason create an artificial reason (such as ‘anonimity’) to shut those contrary thoughts down.
Sure….some prominent ego-driven individuals, that regularly denigrate anyone that disagrees with them (and, even some well-known players, who become enraged when others do not rate their intelligence as highly as they, themselves, do lol) will resent ‘anonymous’ commentators, and try to shut them down (even asking/hoping their friends will ban these commentators from their blogs).
Whether I call myself ‘John Jones’ – or ‘Voltaire’ – makes not one jot of difference to the quality (or otherwise) of the debate.
Leave it as it is….M-H-B… 🙂
‘Voltaire’ is right – what is said is more important than who says it.
It wasn’t Voltaire’s physical appearance that got him into bed with so many women.
It wasn’t his name either.
Would I lie to you?
I feel your pain.
First off… what the hell is Owen smoking?
as for the issue of anonymous comments, if you cannot discern the value of the message itself and only decide that value based upon “who” said it… frankly, you’re an idiot. Sure, if I see a post by Frank, I am going to read it carefully as I’ve known him for a long time and respect what he has to say. But if I see an anonymous post, I am also going to read that and see what value there might be in the message (not the messenger)…
The viciousness of some posters in the discussion that prompted this post is actually a good example of why anonymity could be desirable for some. Not all anonymous posts are worth the electrons they consume at all, but some are spot on… and that might piss some others off – a lot. The value of free discussion without fear of reprisal is the very bedrock of truth… think about it.
As for me… well, its no big secret who I am. And yes, I’ll admit… that has kept me from actually speaking my mind a few times.
“As for me… well, its no big secret who I am. And yes, I’ll admit… that has kept me from actually speaking my mind a few times.”
I have no idea who you are, but I like what you said 🙂
@MHB
LOL, I swear i was gonna make the same comment you made as soon as I read Anunt’s comment:) …jockingly ofcourse:)
SlimShady makes a good point. Those posting with real names linking to their own blogs or domain names for sale are doing so not merely to make their identity known for the benefit of others visiting this blog but oftentimes the acto fo making their identity and blog/domain names known is for their benefit. The anonymous posters aren’t seeking that sort of publicity but merely want to express their views in a manner that won’t be stored online in perpetuity and associated with them.
Statements made in person are fleeting but those made online are forever. The opinions you express now may change yet your comments remain. Issues on which you choose to comment may not be issues of great importance to you but you don’t know how they will show up in search results, they may come up near the top on a search for your name so that comment could potentially become someone’s first online impression of you and you may not want to be forever linked with it.
You may have opinions that you express on a particular topic here that you would not like certain people to see. It could be family, friends, coworkers, business associates, clients, whatever. So again, it’s not like a conversation in a room with a group of people because your statements on a blog can be discovered by people outside that room if your identity is tied to them.
Someone suggested pay to comment. Ok, make those that post their real names linked to their business websites pay to comment, let the anonymous post free.
“Someone suggested pay to comment. Ok, make those that post their real names linked to their business websites pay to comment, let the anonymous post free.’
That’s idotic but to be expected here.
First off this is domaining, outside of about 5000 people at most on a planet of 7 billion, no one else cares. To act like people are doing the Lord’s work, or fighting for their country and need privacy is funny.
Like some have said delete the posts that are not relevant keep the rest.
For the MOST part – I skip past the anon posters…
They have nothing to say that I’d take my time to read…
Use Your NAME or go talk to yourself in the mirror…
~Patricia Kaehler – Ohio USA – DomainBELL
The good thing about your blog MHB is you can read the whole article when you go to the home page and have to click to read the article with comments, I usually only read what you have to say. The number of comments got me to click this one and for that waste of time I will never get back, Thank you MHB. (just kidding)
@owen frager said:
“Restricting comments to paid subscribers puts skin in the game. It says “I am here to learn or grow” versus the anonymous person who is here for entertainment and makes comments that are not backed by experience or use for anything offered in the discussion.”
“Where a bunch of freeloaders with nothing better to do, hangout on your land and pollute the discourse?”
“Backed by experience” huh? If it’s anonymous, wouldn’t the presumption be to not give it the same weight you would as those composed by individuals you consider “experienced” domainers.
Who is this guy, domaining’s Yoda? Oh teach us the ways Master Frager.
Gosh, but why would that piss some others off?
I mean if they are posting with their real name then surely they are honest?
Anonymous posters have no reason to tell the truth.
No one will believe them because they are anonymous. Cowards!
Cleaning house to bring some legitimacy to domaining does not necessarily mean sweeping out anonymous posters. Quite the contrary.
The ones who make domaining look the worst are some of the most visible domainers, posting their names everywhere, trying to draw traffic and sometimes even bragging about their earnings.
Look at whois privacy.
If whois was transparent, registrations would fall sharply and it would bring ICANN and the registrars to their knees. Have you ever looked at the percentage of domain names under privacy?
And if whois privacy was abolished, there would be no justification for not providing the public with access to bulk whois data. With bulk data provided, there would be no need for domainers to bombard whois servers with queries each day or registries and registrars to limit whois queries per IP per diem. Whois servers would get a rest. Energy would be saved.
So why doesn’t this happen?
When you use real names and if there is controversy created with your comment, you are almost forced to take part in the debate, irrespective of whether you have time, energy for debates or not, whether you like debates or not. So real names sometimes prevent real opinions coming out for the fear of creating controversy.
To be honest, I use fake names to express my real opinions without any fear for that I don’t have time, energy to take part in debates.
The problem is not the notion of anonymous comments. The problem is the consistency of anonymity.
If you always comment as then your voice, your opinions, your overall personality does become rather obvious. When each comments is you lose all sense of continuity.
One person writing with a fake name is no more or less anonymous that one person writing with their real name. Would this post be any less or more relevant if I posted it as “Luther Blissett”?
It is also worth remembering (even if totally irrelevant) that in a book of quotations, anonymous has the largest number of attributions.
haha. the domain industry is a few bozos who stumbled out of mediocrity onto an opportunity that exceeds their intellectual makeup. Look at their backgrounds; former insurance peddlers, failed businessmen, carrot farmers, drummers, bankruptees, a couple felons and some lawyers. Not to say there aren’t a couple sharp cookies in your industry but for the most part, no one else has any respect for it because of those who assumed the leadership role.
The Horatio Alger thing loses luster when they take the occasion to be egomaniacal idiots- like the white trash who wins the lottery, buys a Rolls Royce and drives around their old trailer park rubbing it in everyones noses. They may own some great domains, but they’re still the same old people who sucked hard at life prior to 1995.
As far as anonymity, I don’t need to know who said what to asses their ideas. A 17 year old kid with 4 domain names he just hand-registered with Godaddy coupon codes may propose ideas that are better than anything David Castillo or Rick Schwartz will ever think up, yet they would probably disregard him because he doesn’t own a bunch of one word domain names with 1996 registry dates. If the very same idea were proposed by Kevin Ham, they would laud it as genius.
Like I said. Success in your industry doesn’t exactly presuppose any degree of intelligence. The best thing you have going for you is that people from outside domaining occasionally peek in and offer their insight. Remove anonymous comments, you get less of them, more of the likes of Rick Schwartz. Your decision.
If you want credibility in the comments, lets really shoot for credibility. Lets say nobody can participate in the comments until they’ve first taken a psychologist administered IQ test and submitted the results to be posted alongside their profile. It will be amusing as hell to see all those “great domainers” cheering their own genius with a little “IQ: 101” next to their name.
Oh well. At least they can form a club, call themselves ‘insiders’ and give each other little glass awards every year LMAO!
carole king, your music is ok, but your insight is top notch. well done.
from now on anything you post is automatically of high quality. look for the carole king brand. it is synonymous with quality.
not just because she uses her real name, which means is credible, but more importantly, because the content she submits is outstanding.
nicely done.
I feel people should disclose who they are. IMO if not, they lose lot’s of credibility when posting.
@Jim
How would we expect “MHB” – or whoever that is – to manage the checks for real names?
James
@Carole King
It’s Castello, not Castillo, punk 🙂
Fact is very few blog owners have the balls to post comments which are disparaging of the inductry for fear of being alienated and chastized. You dont suffer these threats and you yourself make the point that some of the anon comments make some good points. Look, when you have a guy like Mike Mann come on here lamenting the fact that he has not been recognized by the industry its incumbent on someone to point out the potential reasons why. Can you say Facebook domains? If people want to read homoginized domain news written and to be read through rose colored glassed they can read dnjournal and if they want to read the socialist or communist versions they can read elliots of ricks blog. Somebodt really has to keep it real. So far that has been you! Ricks traffic I am certain has tanked since he made it a rah rah blog but apart from the fear of traffic loss why would you want to be seen as just another voice in the choir all singing the same tune. I honestly was not sure about you until recently and I really like and admire what you let go on here. As so many domainers are used to saying, if you dont do it someone else will. Why mis out on the opportunity? Keep it real and remain relevant. Gloss it over and this will be just another domain blog.
PS I love all the guys demanding that people use their real names in conversations when many of them are reticent to do so in their businesses.
While I agree with MHB on his commitment to the First Amendment, I also believe that requiring commentors to use their real names on posts will produce comments that are more articulate and thoughtful. The freedom of speech is a right, but also a responsibility… if a person is going to use that right to state something inflamatory, then they have the responsibility to defend that statement – preferably with some measure of proofs to back it up.
There are no shortage of opinions in the domain industry, both good and bad. Those participants in the industry whom I respect have always been willing to engage in healthy debate on their opinions. It seems reasonable that those posting comments on the board would be willing to stand by their statements as well.
All due respect, some of the other blogs, none of which have been mentioned in this thread, have better content than this one.
They have more experienced commentators and dig just a bit deeper.
But they do not allow open, anonymous commentary.
As a result the comments are made by people who believe they have all the answers. They don’t.
That’s why this is the best blog. There is fast, open commentary.
Some people will abuse anonymity to bait people and make personal attacks. That behaviour predates the web. It is nothing new.
It will always going to be a side effect of open discussion. And not every person contributing will make intelligent submissions. So what?
The costs of shutting off open input outweigh the benefits of allowing it.
The only people that should be preemptively banned are people trying to sell something. When people want to buy products or services they know where to go. That’s not why they’re reading a blog.
There would be no loss in banning the use of real names or links, except to those who use them.
Anyone can “make a name for themselves” on the web. That doesn’t mean it’s a great idea or that everyone should do it. One T im Fer ris is enough.
When you consider these domainers who use real names, the real credibilty issue is a joke.
When you are involved with pornography, you’re credibility is zero. Right or wrong, that’s just how it is.
And when you read some of the stuff the pornography crowd posts on the web, all indications suggest people within that “industry” cannot even get along with each other, nevermind being taken seriously outside of it.
To be fair, the problem is not just limited to the porn peddlers. It extends to their best customers. The IT industry.
Integrity has always been a problem with anything having to do with software or the internet. That’s why the companies in these sectors are so riddled with scandals year after year.
There is no shortage of investment and profit in these industries but there is just a lack of character among people working in them.
Forget about credibility. Anyone can provide information. There are a gazillion messengers.
The focus should be on whether information is *verifiable*. That is the future of the internet. Want a problem to solve? There you go.
Whether it’s some software company’s income figures (bending accounting practices to their breaking point) or domainers posting about purported domain sales, information should not be trusted unless it can be verified.
If that is not possible then allowing open, anonymous discussion of the information makes perfect sense.
Way off Ad, most blogs allow for comments and do not censor. This blog is by far not the best domain blog. MHB is a nice guy and he benefits from hero worship as many would like his money and portfolio. He allows comments that cross the line but one day someone will come after him, I would say he is lucky Rick Schwartz is a friend, because I would be willing to bet that a blog written by someone Rick did not know that had this many comments about Rick that Rick claims are lies, he would take action.
Actually, AD made a good point…
“The focus should be on whether information is *verifiable*. That is the future of the internet. Want a problem to solve? There you go.”
The MESSAGE is the key… the messenger, not so much.
Sure, a lot of anonymous posts are crap. I find a lot of the comments by supposed “real name” posters of equally questionable value… so that’s not going to really make a difference in the quality of the content. However, in cases such as the one that prompted this particular debate, I can certainly understand why some people had used anonymity to make their opinions known.
If you go to just about any news blog, you can use any damned name you want. I’m not familiar with all of these supposed blogs that make that impossible… maybe they exist, but obviously not the majority. That’s just my experience, maybe I have not paid enough attention… but I doubt that.
Every person should be afforded the opportunity to speak their truth, without reprisal. Some individuals may not like that concept, as it makes retribution towards that poster difficult. I shouldn’t have to spell this out, there are egos involved. When that is the case, differences in opinion are going to happen. Turning that into personal vendettas is a ridiculous theater that need not be afforded opportunity.
That said, I’ve posted as Cartoonz for 20 years now… and I’ve not made any posts using any other handle here, either. Is that my real name? uhh… no. Do people know who I am when I post? Well, anybody that actually knows me does. It really doesn’t matter to me… if something I post resonates to someone else – cool… if it doesn’t, that’s cool too – you’re free to disregard it. That’s actually how you should be viewing each and every post, regardless of “who” makes it… the message, not the messenger… that’s what counts.
Guys
Thanks for all the input
Think there are a lot of good points on both sides of the discussion.
Haven’t made a final decision yet on it and probably wouldn’t roll out any changes until January 1.
Who knows what to believe these days. Heck, now they are saying Shakespeare was an anonymous poster.
http://www.anonymous-movie.com/
If it wasn’t for Judy Berkins adamantly claiming the opposite saying “Mike is ALWAYS at the computer”,
maybe Blog King Mike has a ghost writer making all these posts. 🙂
Intelligence, credibility, reliability or value isn’t inherent in comments by anonymous posters – no matter how well their points are argued – if the underlying facts, data, assumptions, etc. are “made up”.
How do you know if the asserted facts – in any online dialogue – ARE the facts?
The concern for “fact-uality” is one more reason I prefer to engage “real people” versus “anonymous”. Real people, especially those who value their reputations strive to get the facts or story right. Why? Because real people know they will pay a price for misinforming, misstating, etc. Everybody makes a mistake. A pattern of misstatements, BS, etc. follows you around when you are known.
Walter Cronkite, Barbara Walters, Katie Couric, Edgar R. Morrow, Diane Sawyer did their best to fact check before “informing”. Why? Because their reputation lent value to their “story/news”.
Anonymous’ reputation for accuracy or thoroughness or honesty is always as much in doubt as his/her identity.
@ Jeff Libert
Very lame position to take. You make it sound like the fact that you are unable to identify a poster somehow makes you incapable of testing the veracity of their comments.
The two are completely separate. If I say that 1+1 = 2 or that Mike Mann got popped for registering and monetizing 21 domain names that included the term facebook or veriations of same you should be able to confirm that these are facts- indeed true- or are you suggesting that simply because Walter Croncite, Barbara Walters, Rick Schwartz or Mike Mann say something that it must be true because they value their reputations so much. What a joke. There is a quite a bit of erroneous information being spread by identifiable posters. Not all the annonymous posts are shams or the work of clowns and haters. Sometimes we just reveal some very unflattering facts.
How do you ever know if the “facts are the facts”?
You check it out, thats how. If information is patently false thats one thing but if what is stated is indeed factual, who cares who’s lips uttered them.
have to agree with carole king
and it looks like the truth came out about someone this week through anonymous posting
so its a no brainer to me
MHB,
Not sure how many posts had to be deleted in this thread, but it seems like this is a pretty open and honest discussion even though not everyone is registered here. Maybe you could comment?
Based on my experience it’s seems to be some of the more experienced domainers who are pushing for all users to be registered. In my opinion, in these instances, it’s usually a combination of control and ego driving this push for change. The folks who post under their real names feel cheated and sometimes personally attacked when someone challenges them and they can’t use their status in the industry to “put the commentor in their place”. This is only one example of course.
Like anything else there are also positives on the other side of the coin.
Personally I think alot of the traffic would find new places to post if registration was required. Other dedicated posters would stay.
For the record I feel my post above is very open and clearly my own opinion, but being newer to the industry I would not have posted this if I was using my real name. Not that I feel there is anything wrong with my post, but I believe some would be more likely to hold a a grudge down the road if we were to do business together.
One final note I’ll make is that even though I don’t post under my real name I always use the same alias as I believe over time this will allow people to develop an opinion of my comments and choose accordingly as to how my position is recieved, while still allowing me to post openly and to the point. Maybe this is a good compromise?
Best of luck to all!
Tom
Don’t know if any posts under this topic were removed.
You know the funny thing about Rick Schwartz is he is the biggest complainer about anonymous posting, yet it appears he posts anonymous posts on his own blog and other blogs regularly, and I known from personal experience he deletes 90% of comments which dont suit his agenda.
another take on this issue:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111103/06223116619/anonymous-commenters-cowards-contributors.shtml
MHB
With all due respect, the only opinion that matters is your own. As an “anonymous” poster – I have to live with your decision.
I continue to believe that the only solution is to allow “anonymous” posters but continue to force them into a single source anonymity. From my perspective Cartoonz is anonymous, David Costello (sic) is anonymous, and even you yourself are anonymous. I often find Owen Frager’s brain is anonymous (or at least hiding).
But if it’s always Cartoonz, David Castello, MHB as the posting id, then I don’t see the harm. Shakespeare is Shakespeare even if someone else wrote it. 1984 would be a great book even if Mrs Orwell authored it. The content is what matters and the consistency of ownership (even in pen name) gives value.
Could I determine that you wrote your blog and didn’t copy it from somelittlenonamebloggercalledbob.com? Probably. Do I need to? No: Your voice, opinions and words are consistent and obvious. The same fact is true of commenters that use common names. I recognize Cartoonz, David Castello but I recognize that anyone can post with that or a similarly confusing name.
All that is needed is:
Allow anonymous posting.
Allow anonymous posting from one authorized anonymous account.
Let the readers determine the value of the comment.
What you should remove? Any link to a site that is not consistent with the userid – or in the link that’s not relevant. This would make some of those crazy .co posters go away.
I appreciate the lack of censorship that is here (obviously I don’t know everything that gets deleted). Another domain blog recently deleted my comment – no doubt at the request of DCG – and I found that to be disappointing, in particular as it appears another unrelated comment was subsequently not posted (and contained nothing but comments related to the article).
My respect for you, MHB, relative to other domainers has continued to grow.
Peace Out.