You may have notice a couple of days of light postings from theDomains.com, which may lead you to ask where did Berkens go?
Although due to a ton of NDA’s I can’t reveal the extension, or the parties I have been involved in negotiations over the last two day, but it looks like the new gTLD race, is going to be on some levels, just a high stakes poker game.
No more.
No less.
Instead of playing for $100 a hand or a pot of thousands of dollars, the stakes are in the tens of millions for highly desirable generic gTLD string.
Anyone who has ever played poker knows that some players with great hands lay low, sucking others into betting higher, while others just try to bluff their way into having all the other players with better hands fold convincing them they have no chance of winning even though they are holding all the cards.
As the World Series of Poker starts there are thousands of players paying $10K for a seat at the table and as time goes on those players start dropping out, get eliminated, outplayed, out witted.
The new gTLD process is setting up new rules for a new game and as in any game, there is going to be game playing.
So like poker, some are going to represent themselves as holding the strongest hand forcing others to fold or in the case of new extension to merger when they actually don’t even have a pair.
Yet others are going to keep their cards hidden until they are forced to revel, in this case which may lead to a auction.
The Applicant Guidebook encourages parties who submit applications for the same string to work it out between each other and many in the field expect that most of the contentious applications to be resolved by negotiations between the parties.
Some applicants who anticipate filing competing applications are already talking trying to negotiate deals.
So why would someone with a good hand fold at this point?
For one, the ICANN Applicant Guidebook, the final version of which is overdue and still not out, in its draft form is still confusing to most and open to different interpretations.
ICANN should have a Guide Book, crystal clear in meaning, not subject to different interpretations or open questions so everyone know what the rules are and what hands beats the others.
Clearly we ICANN has failed to deliver a rule book, clearly defined within the time necessary to digest and understand it properly.
If the new gTLD process starts out in mass confusion the results are going to be a mass mess.
People are engaging in real debates, with millions, and tens of millions at stake, beating on what the rules are.
At the moment the answers are unknown, but what is for certain is that the new gTLD’s process is a new system, a new game and with any game there is going to be game playing.
I’m sure ICANN didn’t intend it, but for the most desirable new gTLD’s it looks like ICANN may have just set up the highest stake poker game in the world.
ICANN may not have intended it, but I’m damn sure they know that’s what they’ve done.
For about $50,000 a DAY people can hire experts to save them millions and more or less guarantee a success.
Of course, for about $50,000,000 you can grease the palms of the 50 people that matter, at one million each. They even toss in one day of “consulting” to pick up the check (or briefcase of cash)
Fold
“So like poker, some are going to represent themselves as holding the strongest hand forcing others to fold”
======
By the way, ICANN is also BLUFFING – ICANN (and NTIA) want people to think they have “the strongest hand” and the ONLY hand.
The smart money in the USA is betting on the FCC’s hand. You can see the 10 well-heeled companies lining up with the FCC for their licenses to print money.
The ICANN game is more at the level of Street Gang 3-Card Monty Scams
Lots os fakers coming. I just chalk it ALL up as “Bullshit” and “Bullshitters” until there is MONEY on the table. Some of these guys could not afford the dot com version let alone an entire gTLD. That makes them fakers by definition and many people will waste their time with fakers. I have a test for fakers. I don’t make friends when I unveil them. They get pissed.
“Lots os fakers coming. I just chalk it ALL up as “Bullshit” and “Bullshitters”
======
Fakers, SHILLs, Cons – Yep that is THE Community ICANN insiders cultivate
The U.S. Congress just announced they want NTIA to clean up the mess
A clerk at the NTIA said – “OK, we will look into that…”
It is not a secret that another Internet is being built. Market tests show American consumers will flock to it. Sleeze is not a big market, but trailer park trash is not illegal. What is that old saying about “dragging $50 thru a trailer park” ?
BTW – Many people are headed to the ICANN meeting in Africa without disclosing their registration. Bring your gold bars and wear your gold chains.
The insiders prefer payment in solid gold.
I’d bet there were Donuts at the table.
@Tom G
or DogNuts
Also – does this mean since ICANN is endorsing gambling that Gambling in the US will be back ?
Rick,
“I have a test for fakers. I don’t make friends when I unveil them. They get pissed.”
Reminds me of the Famous Warren Buffet Quote:
“You only realize who is swimming naked when the tide goes out”
so i remember when i met my guys in the parking lot at ICANN, they’d done about 4 straight all-nighters in a rent an office and had 450 pages of propoals for .kids, i grabbed my $50,000 cashiers check and I walked into icann…………………. gave it an admin in a cubicle, she gave me a shirt, said ICANN on it………………..man . expensive shirt.
@ MHB said: “ICANN should have a Guide Book, crystal clear in meaning, not subject to different interpretations or open questions so everyone know what the rules are and what hands beats the others.”
ICANN is still absorbing the blow that the NTIA/DOJ doled out:
“Based on past analysis by the Antitrust Division as well as independent reports commissioned by ICANN, we would expect that removing cross-ownership restrictions would lead to substantial price increases for .com, .net and .org.
ICANN has made a commitment to “promote competition, consumer trust and consumer choice.” In order to honor its commitment to promote competition, ICANN, in consultation with public and private sector stakeholders and independent anlysts, should make a market power determination before removing cross-ownership restrictions. We disagree with ICANN’s apparent belief that it would be effective and easy to address market power issues through contract restrictions. As we discuss above, and as ICANN’s studies have acknowledged, allowing vertical integration will facilitate the evasion of such restrictions. In our view, the current structural rule that prohibits vertical integratiuon provides a more effective and easier way to prevent competitive abuse.”
– Remarks by James Tierney, Chief Networks Technology and Enforcement Section, US Department of Justice Antitrust Division
Typical BS Scam.
This whole thing is so fishy that it will bring down the house.
Check out the letter from the U.S. Senate to ICANN on Ethics
Steve Crocker the Chairman of ICANN is working on the new FCC Internet
so are the NeuSTAR people, Google and now Microsoft
Obama moved the head of the Dept of Commerce to China – There is no one home
ICANN better move fast while they have their chance – The Windows will close
Actually, the new version of Windows should be a Game Changer
If someone is willing to put down $500 on a pre drop for Interracial.info and even $100 for Used.info right now, where they are completely worthless and non-brandable – and they will likely sell for considerably more – well – going thru the dictionary $185K gets made up pretty fast – like 500 domains at $500 and you are out whole.
Who cares that they are useless – its just 500 mechanics selling $500 worth of unnecessary work – big deal
“If the new gTLD process starts out in mass confusion the results are going to be a mass mess.”
====
People profit (even in not-for-profits) from mass confusion.
ICANN is sort of like the Ellis Island of the Internet. They pull the noobs in and the sheeple are fleeced. What is that inscription on the Statue ?
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”
FREE will not be cheap if ICANN is in the path
@Big Lie
“Ellis Island of the Internet. ”
very nice – very appropriate –
“I feel your pain – I feel your pain – just buy a non.com – and be healed – you know more about the Internet (America) those .com guys – because I told you you so”
“Ellis Island of the Internet. ”
====
In 1998, when “the Deal” was made with Ira Magaziner (and the Clintons) the idea was to have ICANN be the “sandbox” the market trial company.
Once people or companies make it thru the ICANN maze (like Ellis Island) they could be considered for Citizenship ( on the real Internet ).
ICANN has turned out more like Angel Island – the U.S. West Coast disaster
In both cases, people stepped up and played the game and lost. Others walked in from Canada and Mexico or sailed directly to Florida.
Eventually the U.S. Government closed the islands, just as they will close ICANN (soon). Computers are much better at tracking the Trending Root for FREE.
sounds like maybe some doubts are starting to arise.
maybe what barlow said about the process being “too complex” was (unitentionally) spot on?
there are “consultants” posting regularly on circleid, each arguing for the gltds to go to launch. some are more obvious in their statements than others. one recently just blurted out that the big opportunity here is for consultants, lawyers and dns providers. not applicants!
it’s only my opinion but i do not think these are trustworthy people.
i must agree with biglie on one point: icann cultivates dodgey business, whether intenitonally or not. it is where their money comes from and they know that.
i think for the legtimitate business world to take interest in this tld stuff (which very few businesspeople understand on even an operational level let alone even touching on the technical side), some quantum of certainty to the process is required. the economic feasibilty studies that doc asked icann to produce were never delivered. i think there’s a reason for that.
the guidebook is typical computer nerd fodder: heaps of needless complexity, and very little clarity. these folks take comfort in such confusion and complexity.
poker indeed. this is pure risk.
hats off to anyone who stays in the game. but reputation-wise, it’s dodgey business and no matter how much is spent on marketing, we will still call a spade a spade.
“some quantum of certainty to the process is required. the economic feasibilty studies that doc asked icann to produce were never delivered.”
=====
ICANN is clearly selling Franchises, they meet the 3 point test of the U.S. FTC
ICANN should be providing Franchisees with the desired reports on risks and certainty and economic feasibility
ICANN apparently uses the Proof-of-Concept Market Trial LOOP-HOLE as a way around the US FTC Franchise requirements (That may not wash this round at $185,00 plus)
One aspect of the Market-Trial approach is the assumption that RE-Launches or RE-Bids will occur when TLDs are ready to become “serious”. ICANN has not produced any new serious additions. The Market-Trials have failed. They now want to try again, as .COM continues to grow.
Other very complex market forces will also help add a lot of uncertainty. All of this arrives in 2012 just in time for a world full of uncertainty. Good timing?
“the big opportunity here is for consultants, lawyers and dns providers. not applicants!”
yes – free enterprise 101 – if someone is willing to be sold a bill of goods – why not sell it to them
And then whether you are paying the 185k for the gTLD or buying the garbage at the sunrise, sunset or more appropraitly earthquake, like Bankrupt.{whatever}, you will eat your losses and buy what you really wanted – a .com
but has icann actually collected any application fees yet? we talk of gtld’s as if it’s a done deal. ask a consultant and they’ll say “yes”. maybe the consultants have started to collect fees, but has icann actually collected any fees?
simply being ok’d by icann for an entry in the text file on their small array of servers does not a tld make. and icann has very little control over what a gtld operator can do- read the gtld agreement. these gtld’s are on their own. to succeed or fail.
moreover, there’s nothing that says a user can’t just change his settings and start using any nameserver she wants to, not necessarily just icann gtld’s. the settings are there for users to change as they wish. there’s no lock-in.
so, then, how is it that icann can say yes or no to all new gtlds? how can they extract fees for the right to have an entry in their text file?
the answer is they can only as long as most people remain ignorant of how else they can do their internet business without buying into the fictional icann authority.
icann has no authority over domain names. and it follows they have no liability. hence they have zero credibility. the technical functions of icann do not a require a board of directors. icann is at most a mediator for the disputes they themselves create (by ignoring trademark law)- which medition service of course they contract out to more capable parties. icann is a fictional authority over an internetwork that is almost entirely unregulated. there is no authority. until govt’s decide to step in.
anyone can run a nameserver and they need not have any relationship with icann, and certainly need not sign any agreement with icann or pay any icann fees.
browser plug-in to switch namservers with a click and the user is free of icann. if lots of users start using some other team of nameservers and icann could quickly lose it’s prominence. never happen you say? never say never.
the info in the gtld databases is public. it can be replicated and served by anyone.
companies have long run their own dns internally. they can serve up whatever info they want. no permission from icann is needed. it’s no different outside on the public internet.
if new gtlds make a mess of the domain name space, maybe we just change our dns setting to point to the com servers. or maybe someone else offers a limited dns with only com/net/org.
you just never know.
has icann started raking in the cash from new gtld’s? or are we making assumptions?
change one line in the com zone and like magic, com is my new root. no more icann.
.xxx? other ridiculous new gtld’s? no thanks.
@ah
Are you saying that an international diversified mismangement company, like, for example Coke, ConArgra, IBM or Chase, can change the dns for their servers to deny everything except com,net,org ? which has been implied befor – or what more can occur
Folks, please save all your pessimistic negativism. We are all here to support each other .
We need to support the Obama Economic Plan and let them spend to stir up the economy. We need more people working.
Excellent job creation plan.
@BrianWick said “yes – free enterprise 101 – if someone is willing to be sold a bill of goods – why not sell it to them”
sorry, ICANN is not a construct of free enterprise and $185k is not a market determined price.
@wick: yes. dns is really best suited for internal networks, where lots of flexibility is needed.
corporations can and do provide their own dns in- house and they can manipulate it any way they like. there’s no need for employees to access nameservers outside the corporate network. and so can you.
the most well-known “expert” on dns is a someone who was employed by a well-known pc maker back in the early days of the internet, and he got stuck with the job of doing the company’s dns… because no one else could be bothered. this was many years ago, before dns was a “business” or even considered important. dns and its flexibilty is well suited for networks that are in constant flux: internal networks. is the internet like that? do new ip numbers keep coming online? all the ip addys have been allocated so we’re told. fast flux usually means nefarious activity.
i can beat the speed of dns, no matter how fast any service claims to be, using a good hosts file on a ram disk. it can map domain names to numbers, to aliases or even numbers to numbers. the only reason i’m forced to run dns is because of annoyances like http redirects, virtual hosting, using dns to load balance, to redirect to cdn servers, and the gratuitous use of cnames.
some may wonder what good are wildcards (another abuse of dns most domainers have heard of). wildcards can alleviate all of the foregoing annoyances. something, alas, the hosts file cannot easily do.
it’s like when you dial a local number to reach customer service and are forwarded to a call center in some foreign country. except in this case, it’s within your control whether you want to be forwarded or not. everyday users are bounced all over the internet by all manner of redirection. there is zero transparency. but it doesn’t have to stay that way. we can do better.
“icann is at most a mediator for the disputes they themselves create”
================
.BINGO
Also, ICANN is more about WHOIS than DNS
the lawyers want names and addresses, not P.O. Boxes or Digital Wallet IDs
People’s domains are owned by the Registry and controlled by the Registrar
Both the Registries and Registrars are tangled in heaps of ICANN legal contracts
The ICANN DNS (Whois) Platform is: Of the Lawyers, for the Lawyers, by the Lawyers – Let them have it
“we can do better”
@MHB
” it looks like the new gTLD race, is going to be on some levels, just a high stakes poker game.”
———–
You are right there is going to be fierce competition for the new gTLDs and like poker you need to have a lot of skill, a good strategy, and some luck in order to come ahead in this game, but unlike poker where everything goes as far as bringing down your opponent, in the new gTLD game those who employ unfair tactics either directly or through their pundits will most definitely reduce their chances of ever getting approved.
–
“there is going to be fierce competition for the new gTLDs”
======
Anyone paying attention to the Washington D.C. control freaks may disagree about “fierce competition”.
FastForward: .COM and Premium .COMs will be all there is…besides the Adult Content network ( a separate platform governments will not support )
INC.COM will “own” (control) .INC
JOB.COM will “own” (control) .JOB
3.COM will “own” (control) .3
…etc etc etc
Yes, there will be fierce “competition” for .COM domains
and .COM will be RE-Launched on the new DNS Platform to allow **existing** owners to migrate – ask your Registrar if they will be migrating you – you have almost no say in any DNS (ICANN) evolution – that was a game
Thanks for playing…
oJohn
“”in the new gTLD game those who employ unfair tactics either directly or through their pundits will most definitely reduce their chances of ever getting approved.””
I don’t know about that
The Guidebook has some disqualifiers in it like criminal backgrounds, but if you are disqualified then it all comes down to who is willing to pay the most.
Rick Schwartz is absolutely right. As a Producer in the movie and TV industry, my company has been told not to discuss any projects with anyone that doesn’t have proved funding in place. !0 out of 10 times it’s a waste of time.
Make over $250k easily by bluffing and pretending you are a huge foreign company with real money…then let the big dogs buy you out for $250k or more!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
IMHO, All this is really mute anyway… Mobile will push the domain industry down the same road as your hardline home phones.
@Shawn
But how do you get a mobile user to put your app on their phone in a sea of millions and millions and millions of competing Apps – and thousands coming out each day – Isn’t that what SEO and the intuitive .com Internet space are all about ?
Which looks better on a billboard
CheapDrugs.com
or
Cheap-Drugs-BecauseICouldNotGetTheDotCom.info
Brian
Or Cheap.Drugs
Viagra.Drugs
Buy.Drugs
Pills.Drugs
Prescription.Drugs
you have almost no say in any DNS (ICANN) evolution – that was a game
Thanks for playing…
“you have almost no say in any DNS (ICANN) evolution – that was a game”
Best of luck re-educating – actually confussing the consumer more
Are you going to start running ads that .com is no longer needed – comical
Dont get me wrong – Fortunes will be made selling / speculating on all these garbage gTLDs – but the consumer (who ultimately dictates policy) will have no use for them – and will be confused by them
Michael,
What really will be keyed in when you see the ad on tv, billboard or otherwise is:
Brian
Cheap.Drugs.com
Viagra.Drugs.com
Buy.Drugs.com
Pills.Drugs.com
Prescription.Drugs.com
Big winner is Drugs.com
“Big winner is Drugs.com”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TheDomains.Yahoo
TheDomains.Google
Line up to buy your “Ad Words” (domains) again
@BrianWick Don’t get me wrong, I’ve invested in many SEO domains and see the value in them. (for now)
My point is that the search is making a huge shift towards mobile and what use to be a key factor in the domain name will become less important as access to the consumer on a personal level because more common place.
People aren’t sitting at the desktop searching like they use to be, the whole mobile search atmosphere is an entirely different beast.
How do you get your app on millions of cellphone? Good question, I don’t have an answer for that.. wish I did.
With how fast technology is moving with mobile I can’t help but feel that there is a train coming down the tunnel and those domains I have will get ran over and be worthless.
“How do you get your app on millions of cellphone? Good question, I don’t have an answer for that.. wish I did.”
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
One way is to own the cellphone company 🙂
ZOOM
“One way is to own the cellphone company :-)”
The most efficent way is to own the intuitive, self-promoting, self advertising, self marketing .com
What are you guys talking about? What does poker has to do with domains? Why is berken’s $10 million poker game has to do with domains?
“own the intuitive, self-promoting, self advertising, self marketing .com”
====
Don’t forget the VERBs like VISIT
VISIT://MARS not available on .EARTH
.EARTH does not exist according to THE Big Lie Society
@Shawn:
How do you get your app on millions of cellphone? Good question, I don’t have an answer for that.. wish I did.
Buy my portal for apps:
appportal.co or appvault.co
Dave
@ poor uncle
It’s an analogy. He’s referring to the gamesmanship taking place between big players in new gTLDs who are positioning themselves to acquire registry rights for what are perceived to be the most valuable TLDs. . . . . .WEB, .SHOP, .GAMES, .APP, .POKER, . . etc
It’s a game of who is vying for which strings, who has the most cash, is willing to spend the most, or maybe even who might have some meaningful grounds to file an objection or pull out a trademark and muck up the process for someone else.
Mike is saying there is already bluffing, misdirection and other fun stuff happening in the run up to the application window.
It’s gonna be loads of fun to watch it all go down. But with these players engaging in negotiations this early, much may be predetermined before application window closes.
There may be some big surprises, anything from highly valued registries going thru uncontested, to some maybe some huge auction prices.
Wild ride it will be.
Maybe a bit like Survivor too, Mike? Alliances being formed, collaborative arrangements?
“much may be predetermined before application window closes”
======
With a computer-driven automated system – No applicants or applications are needed
Making all .COMs into TLDs should help to **seed** the market.
Many are called but few are chosen (by the users).
Tom
You hit it on the head
it does not cost much to run some servers accessing a database. hardware and bandwidth costs. the usual.
yahoo and google were started by phd students. facebook scaled up from a dorm room.
funding? kids generally don’t have much in the way of funding.
look at fringe operations like pirate bay or wikileaks. or that bunker in sweden they use.
how much funding did they have in the beginning? how much funding do these operations have access to? this is not about funding. it’s about know-how of the few and ignorance/complacence of the many.
if your business is providing some purely data-driven “service” via the internet (www search, dns lookup, etc.), overhead is very low compared to old school industries. much like software. what are the startup costs? close to nil. (but gates convinced us to enforce copyright on freely available code, then ibm tried enforcing patents against software makers, and here we are. lawsuits filed every other day. unoriginal software has made billions for some companies and it’s all been deemed legal. not only do we accept it as ok, but we’re now making infringement a criminal offense and getting goverment lawyers involved in enforcement on behalf of software companies.)
but not everything else we can do with code has been given the green light. yet. however it hasn’t stopped people from doing these things, and profiting from it.
if the overhead costs weren’t so low, high traffic (but ip-infringing) websites like pirate bay and subversive sites like wikileaks could not stay afloat. kids could not start businesses from their rooms.
icann is requiring high app fees and funding because it looks good to outsiders viewing their process, but really because funds are needed to fend off legal challenges, and icann is anticipating legal challenges.
no one needs substantial funding to run a registry. they just need users.
in the previous sentence, you can replace the word “registry” with any www based data driven service and in most cases the statement remains valid.
gtld applicants should be prepared for rough seas, on the legal front. sounds like a wonderful business opportunity, doesn’t it? it’s like acquiring a company facing untold pending litigation. interesting surprises may await you.
“So why would someone with a good hand fold at this point?”
0:=)=======>
It would be interesting to see what experts **think** is a good hand.
? All 50 key people greased with one million in cash each ? plus new Porsches for the top 20 people and trips to your private island on your private jets for the top 10 ? is that a good hand ?
“if you are disqualified then it all comes down to who is willing to pay the most.”
=====
if you are **qualified** then it all comes down to who is willing to pay the most
more likely….If you have PAID the most people OFF….then you are **Qualified**
a big problem domainers have is they are not part of the DNS Cartel insider’s club
it does not matter how many or what domains you own – that could be a liability
Big
OK we understand your point you think you are going to pay kickbacks or graft to someone or group of people to get a TLD, which isn’t happening since the rule book doesn’t allow ICANN to pick and choose from applicants but rather award an application to the highest bidder unless all other applicants come to an agreement on how they are going to work together on the string or drop their application out for cash.
Enough comments from you on this topic
domainers don’t need to be part of the cartel that steers the engineering side of the internet. and they do not need to care how poorly a job the cartel does acting on behalf of internet users. they do not need to care how much those users suffer for it.
domainers simply spot the flaws in the system propped up by the cartel and exploit it. for profit.
if you have an improvement to the way the internet is engineered, and you pitch it to the cartel, they will in one way or another just ignore you, no matter how sensible it is. there are several possible reasons for this, among them:
– they are not smart enough to “get it”
– they get it but they’re annoyed because it’s something they’re not smart enough to come up with themselves
– they are vested in the incumbent approach (e.g. they introduced it or had a role, they have built a business around it, etc.); change is scary
– you fail to show any potential to “grease palms” (e.g. you don’t work for a company with lots of cash on hand); change is ok as long as we are guaranteed to make money from it
so how do proceed given this cartel structure?
if you have a sensible solution to an internet engineering problem, do not pitch it to the cartel. do not pitch it to engineers. pitch it to end users. it should be comprehendable by the average 11 yr old. and it should solve a problem that every internet user has experienced first hand.
the description of ipv16 is well written. but doubtful end users would understand it or why ipv4 and ipv6 are deficient.
pitching sensible solutions to a perceived “internet engineering cartel” is a futile exercise. of course this does not stop hundreds of engineers to keep trying.
“if you have a sensible solution to an internet engineering problem, do not pitch it to the cartel”
=======
YEP
in fact, one of the best pieces of advice given to the early Asterisk VOIP developers was “Do not let the IETF touch it…” – the same holds for Skype and you see they sold to Microsoft
The good news is a lot of progress has been made since 1998. People just can not talk about it. The cartel would not like that. There is benefit in allowing the cartel to continue thinking they are God’s gift to networking. It frees up talented people to produce interesting and useful wares.