Singapore is one of those places I probably would never have visited if not to attend the ICANN meeting which just concluded this week.
I’m certainly glad I had the opportunity.
The last ICANN meeting in March of 2011, was held in San Francisco and the comparison between those two cities is remarkable.
Travel is always mind expanding for me.
To see how other people live, learn about other cultures and see how other countries operate.
Singapore is another one of these countries like Hong Kong and Panama, which has little to no income tax and which seems to be booming while our economy shows no signs of life.
Everywhere you look there is huge construction projects, busy restaurants and bars and overall a dynamic energy of success rather than a society trying to avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy.
I’m told that Singapore, unlike the US, which is as we all know $14 trillion in debt, has a huge surplus.
So much of a surplus that while many cities in the US are cancelling their independence day fireworks and celebration plans, Singapore is literally just pissing money away by already practicing on every Saturday night for its independence day celebration which is not until August.
To be clear I just watched for the second Saturday, a practice of the independence day celebration with fly overs of f-18 or f-22’s, helicopter demonstrations and fireworks even though their actual celebration is not until mid-august.
So you get the idea.
In the US a lot of cities can’t afford to celebrate independence day, while Singapore can afford to practice it’s independence day for 6 weeks.
Singapore like all countries have to make money and the way they choose to do it is by levying high duties on purchases.
That Mercedes Benz you can buy in the US for $150K might cost you $800K in Singapore plus $65K for a license plate for 10 years, but then if you don’t want or can’t afford to spend $800K on a Mercedes Benz then don’t, take the train, bus or buy a Honda.
Voluntary taxation.
No one in the US believes people will tax themselves but they will.
If people can can afford and want something they will pay for it.
Likewise if you have a Singapore passport you have to pay $100 to enter a casino.
I’m told quite unofficially that 2,500 Singaporean’s pay $100 each day for the privilege of losing money to the casino (actually to enter the casino) but once again that’s a choice not an obligation.
Once again I’m told that the Sands hotel/casino which cost some $6 Billion to built, on land which used to be the sea, makes more money than any casino in the world, just 1 year into operation.
Sin taxes are quite present in Singapore where beer, wine and alcohol are ridiculously expensive.
I have seen beer for selling for upwards of $27 (plus 10% service change and 7% sales tax that is include in everything)
I would say these “sin” items are at least 3 times the cost in the US if not more, but you don’t have to drink.
Of course everyone gets free medical care.
I’m also told that unemployment is no more than 2%.
Also almost more amazing of what I saw in Singapore is what I didn’t see.
In 10 days I didn’t see a homeless person, anyone sleeping in a street or a park or anyone begging for money.
I can’t recall even hearing a police siren, actually I hardly saw any police anywhere except for directing traffic.
You can walk anywhere in the city anytime of day and feel and actually be perfectly safe.
Try that in New York, Miami or Detroit.
And definitely not in San Fransisco where not only was every corner occupied by people aggressively begging for money but even lobby of the hotel that ICANN was based out was regularly visited by people wanting you to give them money all day and all night.
San Fransisco was also the place where we were just a block down the street having dinner with friends when gunshots went off and 5 people were shot.
No its not Singapore.
We all hear about the strict laws in Singapore.
Before we got here plenty of people reminded us not to spit on the ground or chew gum or you will get a good canning.
Well the streets are spotless.
If you want a parking spot there are digital signs are all over the city telling you in real time how many parking spots are available in each lot.
If your waiting for a bus or train, there are digital signs telling you how long until the next bus or train is coming (usually measured by no more than 5 minutes)
In 10 days driving around town in taxi’s I didn’t feel a pothole in the road.
I didn’t see one mark of graffiti anywhere in the country.
Not on the subway
Not on the buildings
Not on the roadways
I’m told the highest tax rate anyone pays on their income is 10%.
Singapore has become a huge financial and banking center a mecca of shopping with probably more high end designer stores per mile than anywhere I have ever been including New York City. There are just malls after malls here mostly all with worldwide national brands. Its like miles and miles of 5th avenue in New York, there isn’t a Chanel store there are 10 of them in 10 different malls.
The subway is spotless and I guess for good reason.
If you litter on the train its a $500 fine, litter means throwing or dropping anything on the ground or on the seat.
If you eat or drink on the train its a $1K fine
If you smoke its $5K fine.
Like I said the trains and subway are spotless.
What the trains do have is free Wifi and it seems everyone is on their smart phone and iPads.
I went to a performance of a show at the Sands and before the show there was not the announcement we all here in the US, “please turn your cell phones off”
Yet although I would say 85% of everyone old enough to have a phone was using them up to show time as soon as the lights dimmed all phones went away and not one went off during the show. At intermission it was the same. Everyone was back on their phones even iPads but as soon as the lights went down, without any announcement all phone were put away.
Crime has been in large part inbred out of society.
Its just not something that is done by many and most regard those who do it as being rather stupid.
So while I wasn’t too excited about the thought of coming to Singapore I’m leaving with some regret.
In a few days I will have to go back to looking over my shoulder to make sure no one is trying to take my stuff, or harm myself or my family.
I will be back in an environment wherever you looks there is bad economic news; foreclosures, store and restaurant closings, tons of people out of work for years families really hurting and an environment where the government wants to be your equal partner in every dollar you make.
Some think Singapore is too clean, too sterile, too nice.
But I’m going to miss it.
Mike, how were the restaurants and food over there?
So true – very well said.
Every system has it’s pluses and minuses.
Where emerging Asia seems to be doing it right is they’re finally figuring out that it’s best to learn from the missteps of the west, rather than simply trying to be a 360 degree knock-off of it.
In the west, we run our systems of policy as ideological suicide pacts.
*Extreme* capitalism.
*Extreme* socialism.
*Extreme* social freedom.
*Extreme* totalitarianism.
I think a lot of this traces back to our having fought ideological wars since the beginnings of our cultural history; we’ve come to define every matter in terms of how it fits into one ideology or the other, usually oriented left or right, and how much blood we’ve shed to prove ourselves right.
Asians don’t seem to suffer from this paralysis and with the next century being their century, they have thousands of years of our missteps to learn from to make their cultures more dynamic.
They also have the colossal advantage of being (mostly) ethnically homogeneous societies, where we don’t have that. The reason you can’t safely stroll through the streets of New York, Chicago or Detroit at 2:00 am has nothing to do with marauding bands of Singaporeans.
Great writeup, Michael. I’ve never been and never had any desire to…until now. It sounds pretty unique and maybe place we can learn a lot from.
Great article Mike, thanks for sharing.
“Singapore is another one of these countries like Hong Kong and Panama, which has little to no income tax and which seems to be booming while our economy shows no signs of life.
Everywhere you look there is huge construction projects, busy restaurants and bars and overall a dynamic energy of success rather than a society trying to avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy.”
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Singapore & Hong Kong have been booming since the early 70’s, when I lived in Hong Kong they had just opened the first McDonalds (1975) and the Connaught Centre was the tallest bees knees building in the whole of Asia 😉
Pity the ex governor of Hong Kong in the 70’s wasn’t the PM of UK at the time!
The West is slow to learn.
” Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes … known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.… No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
— James Madison, Political Observations, 1795″
One day we may learn – make jobs not war 🙂
Great article Mike! Singapore is one of my favorite cities on the planet and a truly unique and special place. You really did a great job of bringing out all the qualities that make it so incredible!
One sidenote, while there are some places where alcohol is wildly expensive. I found most bars had the same or lowers cost than we pay here in LA where the average beer is around $8.
That being said you just don’t see the same level of alcohol abuse, diggs, anger, and drunk driving because the culture really prides people on treating other people the way they would like to be treated. It always amazes me when I come back from Europe or Asia how crappy people treat each other in the US.
While I love the country we live in, we have a lot to learn from places like Singapore. Thanks for all the great coverage while you were away. Your blog has been my #1 read and I know how hard it can be to keep up the posts and quality while travel, your really did go abobe-and-beyond and this post really is the icing on the cake!
Hope you’re having a nice weekend! Oh and did you get a chance to try stingray while you were there? That’s one of my favorites 🙂
(please pardon any typos or misplaced words, commenting in bed vis iPad)
I’m thankful for your high opinion on Singapore, but no, there’s no free medical care for everyone in Singapore. And there are definitely homeless people here too. I supposed you visited the tourist side of Singapore. 😉 It’s still a nice country though not as perfect it seems to be =)
http://singaporemind.blogspot.com/2011/02/high-cost-of-medical-care-in-singapore.html
http://theonlinecitizen.com/?s=homeless
So here is a thought, move to Singapore or do so for 6 months and see how it goes. Give it a shot if you are that stoked on it. I’ll visit you from Bali where I have been now for over a year. It’s only a 3 hour $99 (each way) flight for me and I go to Singapore every few months anyway. I would have come up for ICANN but it wasn’t a good time to get away.
Ok big lol, as I’m re-reading this post what is on my tv in Bali on Satelite?
Crime Investigation Asia on the CI channel, with a story about Mas Selamat the fugitive mass murderer that took place in Singapore.
Great article Mike! If this doesnt wake us up, what will?
We have a current administration that believes we need to “raise revenues” (code for higher taxation) and increase spending in addition to the $14+ trillion we already owe now. (?) How this is “logical” completely escapes me.
Weren’t we just told a few years ago that we all need to get our financial houses in order and cut back? I wonder what our elected officials would do in their own personal households if they realized they were spending more than they were earning? Would they try to spend “More” to solve the problem? No – they would be forced to cut back… So why do they feel its okay to spend more of our money? Makes NO sense.
We desperately need strong financial leadership in this country and we need to create an economic environment where our citizens can take responsibility for their futures and not live off of the sweat of other taxpayers through govt handouts. Are we just all that stupid? Enough is enough!!!
may you breath in Singapore?
LS Morgan:
Singapore is one of the most racially mixed countries. Now explain how they can make it without problems and we can’t.
Around 1995, I was riding in a car of an associate from our Singapore office. His cellphone started to ring and he IMMEDIATELY pulled over his Mercedes (company perk) before answering it. In 1995 that was unheard of. To this day, I can still remember the shock.
Today, in my U.S. state it is illegal to talk (or text) while driving. Everyday I see many people doing it without any guilt.
Mike, great wrap-up.
Are you still sweating the curry out of your pores?
Singapore is one of the most racially mixed countries. Now explain how they can make it without problems and we can’t.
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You’re confusing ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’.
Also, for whatever minor racial variety may exist there, not all races are the same, in terms of how they integrate with one another.
And add to the above- way too hot a topic for discussion on a domain name blog, so lets just leave it at that.
Great to see you and Judy in Singapore, Mike, and it is a truly amazing place. Never before have I been in a city that feels so thoroughly 21st century — in fact, it almost seems like the whole place has just been built since the start of the century, and the architecture of many of the skyscrapers and high rises was science fiction mind-bending.
Of course no place is perfect. Singapore has had one-party rule since its independence, and the limits on political expression are something that Americans used to wide-open debate and a diversity of choices might chafe at. I was told that the factories that formerly created local pollution (and there seemed to be zero air pollution now, an amazing contrast to other big Asian cities) have all been outsourced to Indonesia, Vietnam, etc. And on visiting a photography gallery the owner lamented that the city was in such a rush to build that its architectural and cultural heritage was being thoughtlessly bulldozed away. (Plus I did see what appeared to be one homeless person sleeping on a bench, which was kind of shocking given the overall level of prosperity evident everywhere you looked. But that was the only one during an 8-day stay.)
Singapore was spotless and safe. And for a polyglot mixture of cultures and religions, and with a workforce that is forty percent foreign nationals, the air of mutual tolerance was quite impressive — everyone I met was friendly and helpful. And did you notice that when cars cost 3-4 times what they do here, and are paid for with 10-year loans, that every one is kept spotless and shining? – Didn’t see a single clunker anywhere!
My most surprising moment — I tried to tip a concierge in my hotel for some considerable help she had provided, and her response, “I cannot accept. I am genuine.” Try to imagine that happening in NYC, LA or Miami!!
That about sums it up — a genuinely unique and thoroughly impressive place.
(Plus I did see what appeared to be one homeless person sleeping on a bench, which was kind of shocking given the overall level of prosperity evident everywhere you looked. But that was the only one during an 8-day stay.)
People often go to sleep on park benches in Hong Kong & Singapore , its quiet normal, they don’t have to be homeless to do that 🙂
Try that in the west and you’d wake up with empty pockets and no shoes…if you are lucky 😉
@Mike
From what you have described it sounds more like a clean and organized zoo than a city, show me a society that people behave themselves because of their higher level of intellect and not their fear of canning then I will have respect for that society.
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You are also talking about a country with 5.1 million people vs a country with 320million plus. There are alot of other problems that come with being a larger country. LS Morgan brought up some good points too, I live in Philadelphia, I know why I cannot walk down the streets of North Philly at Noon forget Midnight.
Singapore certainly has some good points and since you seem so negative on the USA maybe you should move there it worked for Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, from techcrunch: I haven’t run into him, but have confirmed from at least ten local programmers and angel investors that Eduardo Saverin– the Brazilian-born estranged Facebook co-founder who helped Ben Mezrich write a devastating revenge book of his ouster before taking a settlement and disappearing from the face of the US tech scene– has been hiding out in Singapore for the better part of the last year-and-a-half. I’m told he lives in the penthouse of the tallest building of the city, and is a regular at Singapore’s club hot spots, especially a place called The Butter Factory.
wikipedia :
Singapore possesses the world’s tenth largest foreign reserves.[55][56] Singapore’s external trade is of higher value than its GDP, making trade one of the most vital components of the economy. Over ten free trade agreements have been signed with other countries and regions.[57] Singapore’s economy was ranked the world’s most open in 2009,[58] competitive[59] and innovative.[60][61] Singapore is rated the most business-friendly economy in the world.[62][63] The currency of Singapore is the Singapore dollar, issued by the Monetary Authority of Singapore.[64] It is interchangeable with the Brunei dollar.[65]
Most work in Singapore is in the service sector, which employed around 2,151,400 people out of 3,102,500 jobs in December 2010. Around 64.2% of jobs were held by locals. The percentage of unemployed economically active people above age 15 is about 2%.[66] Poverty levels are low compared to other countries in the region. The government provides cheap housing and financial assistance to poorer people.[67] Singapore has the world’s highest percentage of millionaire households, with 15.5 percent of all households owning at least one million US dollars.[68]
Tourism forms a large part of the economy, and 10.2 million tourists visited the country in 2007.[69] To attract more tourists, in 2005 the government legalised gambling and allowed two casino resorts (called Integrated Resorts) to be developed.[70] Singapore is promoting itself as a medical tourism hub: about 200,000 foreigners seek medical care there each year, and Singapore medical services aim to serve one million foreign patients annually by 2012 and generate USD 3 billion in revenue.[71]
“If you were smart in 1807 you moved to London, if you were smart in 1907 you moved to New York City, and if you are smart in 2007 you move to Asia.”
-Jim Rogers
YO yo yo—
it is a good place to visit, have fun and be your own boss!!!
Not a good place to be a ” coolie” to someone .
All of you won’t survive working in those Asian countries because you are an ‘OUTSIDER”
There you go, visit and spend lots of money and money and GO HOME .
“Of course everyone gets free medical care.” etc.
no wonder, everything is much easier to do in a so small and rich country like Singapore
great post.
some might interpret it as complaining or pointing out usa shortcomings.
but really it’s just learning that there are many different ways to live (aka cultures).
many people you meet in life have been steered to believe there is only one “right” way to live. and to believe that only one culture “makes sense”. but most of the world’s pop. cannot afford to travel the globe. and one can only learn so much about other cultures by reading or as a tourist.
as RH wrote, size is relevant. a famous physicist once wrote: “more is different.” maybe this also applies on other levels. as the number of people increases, things change in curious ways. behaviour changes. competition and cooperation change. small groups can do things large ones cannot and vice versa. same goes for countries. not to mention companies. more is different.
love the quote from jim rodgers. the things he says are provocative and maybe scary to some, but we would be foolish to ignore them. what does the world think of the us t-bill? maybe it’s time to re-read milton friedman’s old report on “stone money”. rodgers’ kids are probably fluent in chinese. he’s a survivor. as were the travelers who founded the usa.
is it true that sg has one of the highest rates of millionaires per capita?
They also have the colossal advantage of being (mostly) ethnically homogeneous societies, where we don’t have that. The reason you can’t safely stroll through the streets of New York, Chicago or Detroit at 2:00 am has nothing to do with marauding bands of Singaporeans.
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I would love for you to expand on this. No point in saying this isnt the place to do so as the genie is out the bottle now, might as well explain what you mean.
Good post and insight! Thanks in sharing
Good
“is it true that sg has one of the highest rates of millionaires per capita?””
My understanding is yes
I was told millionaires maybe up to 15% of the population which is how they can afford to support all of the high end shops.
Other than US citizens most countries tax on presence of if your Canadian or British and move to Singapore you give up paying 50% tax which would of course attract millionaires and people of substance and significant wealth.
Why not?
The weather is warm/hot, there is virtually no crime and as I said the city is quite lovely.
Great post Michael, shows how open minded you really are 😀 Asia really is the place to be right now and into the near future!
Shame about some of the narrow-minded comments from people that have never visited Singapore and felt the need to put it down in a vain attempt to feel better about their own surroundings and culture.
Fascinating post, Michael.
Hi Michael, I’m Singaporean and I’m glad you had a time to explore our little neck of the woods. Some overgenerous comments here and there, but in essence it does sum up the state of affairs here pretty well. Hope you get a chance to come back again and if you do, you are invited to visit the underbelly of our society next time…(which as underbellies go, is really not bad at all… 🙂
@LS morgan, -we do have ideologies of our own,
*Extreme* pragmatism – our gov’t does whatever it does with a 20-30 year view of things and with the maxim of “its good if it works, and bs if it doesn’t”. They recognise that human nature is what it is, so they have designed the whole system to push and pull citizens toward productive labour and law-abiding family lives, and away from crime and welfare dependency. The political compact has been, entrust us with the power and we will make your lives better.
2 things are breaking down though, for reasons somewhat beyond our control.
(1) Singapore is a hub of Globalisation and one symptom is higher income disparity than we have ever experienced. Social mobility is still present, but ppl can’t help but feel that, unlike the old days, the odds have become stacked against kids with less well-off parents. This fatalism is more poisonous than any housing crisis, albeit in a more insidious way.
(2) Our labour shortage and low unemployment has led the gov’t to welcome foreigners with open arms at all levels of society. The stresses this has caused, especially at lower stratas of society, has cost them dearly at the last election.
In short, I hope that pragmatism will still rule, but the pressure for more welfare for the poor and job protectionism is rising. Perhaps this is not such a bad thing at this point, as we are starting from a very low base. But it is a dangerous path to go down.
MHB, surprised you fell for it.
What works in a tiny benevolent dictatorship does not work in a country of ……300+ million people. Singapore is rich because people go there for the most part to escape taxes and other crap. Believe it or not, only ~ 15% of the US GDP is in taxes, very low relatively speaking.
I would love for you to expand on this. No point in saying this isnt the place to do so as the genie is out the bottle now, might as well explain what you mean.
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It’s not too hard to understand, really. You’d have to be pretty much retarded to not understand it, but its a domain blog and there’s no sense needlessly dragging that discussion here.
is it also true that singaporean students have some of the highest test scores in the world in science and maths?
my brain doesn’t work too well in extreme heat. how do they do it?
Every country has pluses and minuses. I’ve yet to see anywhere that you could call perfect in all ways.
Despite all the problems and imperfections the US has right now, I’d still take America over any other country on the planet.
Cuba is a very safe place too.
The safety and cleanliness are paid for with your freedoms.
Sounds like Singapore is a nice place to visit but none of us would want to live there.
@Another Singaporean
I left the island because I love to cruise in my convertible with my blonde babe (S) and have sex on the beach and do what I damn do including cussin Obama.
Say that in Sing and I get my head chopped off.
And did you know that Singapore govt provides subsidized housing, subsidized medical care and what not ..
“Fascinating post, Michael.”
Leave it to a Castello to be un-American
Poil
I don’t know what the total amount of taxes is as a percentage of GDP in the US but I know that the top rate is soon to be 40%, and those in the higher brackets start getting their deductions limited or eliminated as well making the real fed tax rate 44%, and if your stupid enough or stuck living in a place like New York City or California you can add another 10% on top of that.
I don’t know about you but when the government makes more of my money that I do its a problem
Rob
When the nicest car your going to find on Cuba is a 1960 Cadillac and women sell themselves on the street for $10, I don’t think its really comparable to life in Singapore.
Kevin
Have you been to every country in the world?
I’ll take the old Caddy, organic food, colorful buildings and history of Cuba over a shiny new MB (Mercedes Benz not Mike Berkens 🙂 and a city I can’t cuss in.
Chris
Don’t worry both Judi and I curse plenty and nothing happened to us
I’d love to get there eventually…and Kuala Lumpur too. I could do some research for developing my kualalumpur.co domain 🙂
Don’t forget to fix San Fransisco (sic) in your post title!
@Mike
” Don’t worry both Judi and I curse plenty and nothing happened to us ”
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So their harsh laws only apply to the poor and the disadvantaged while the millionaires get away with whatever they want.
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Funny when we left the airport today security was well quite pleasant.
Each gate has their own scanner so there isn’t any huge backup like at the US airport.
No shoes had to be removed.
No X-ray of your private parts were required.
No pat down or full cavity searches were going on of either adults or children
Immigration and security took less than 3 minutes, not much of a police state presence if you ask me.
Oh yes also the airport was full of more designer shops just in case you didn’t have enough time to shop at while in the city, with expensive high end goods, including a nice bottle of very rare cognac in a gorgeous bottle which was quite reasonable priced at $53,500 and I was quite tempted but it was like $52,500 over budget
We should not embrace canning and some of the other inhumane ways that these kinds of Countries treat their own people no matter how well polished their society looks on the surface. Material things should not make us close our eyes to torture.
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Ok folks, Mike is just trying to say that personally he enjoyed and had a nice experience in Singapore.
Every country has it’s ups and downs, values and beliefs. As Americans we disagree with a lot of Singapore’s ideas regardless of the end resut that is achieved. Good for us, that’s why Americans live in America. Many Singaporeans disagree with a lot of our shenanigans and so many of them choose to live there when possibly they could live in the US. Singaporeans haven’t begun to impose their way of life on America yet so let’s do them the same courtesy, and if you don’t like Singapore you don’t have to go there, and if you do go there, well it is their country so follow their rules when there. That’s how countries work.
Some people prefer the more third world thing, such as I, and others prefer the hyper first world thing like MHB.
Bottom line, MHB is trying to say he had a nce time and would probably prefer to attend another ICANN metting there rather than in San Francisco again.
Wrong,
This is not about differences in culture or values that different societies want to uphold, when it comes to torture its something that concerns us all regardless of where it is taking place.
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It’s not too hard to understand, really. You’d have to be pretty much retarded to not understand it, but its a domain blog and there’s no sense needlessly dragging that discussion here.
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Its a simple question and yet you have to become insulting. I have noticed that this “industry” is full of people that lack basic manners no wonder there seems to be news about some scam or another every month. A lack of manners are usually accompanied by a lack of principles.
@ojohn
First I’m not saying I’m a fan or not of anything in particular a culture does. Generally I almost always agree with the “American Way”.
That being said, regarding your last comment, check out the Hamer People of Southwestern Ethiopia. Here is the wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamer_people
What would you like to do about the Hamer People? They have been featured on NatGeo many times so it’s not like nobody knows about them.
When your economy is heavily based on services instead of manufacturing or agriculture, then the retaliatory penalty for high tariffs on imported goods is low. In other words, you can get away with high tariffs if you aren’t worried about tariffs that other countries are going to impose on your own goods. It also helps to have a ready pool of non-permanent resident workers from surrounding low income countries.
“Have you been to every country in the world?”
LOL!
MHB +1
The other thing that’s funny is that Americans seem to believe they are truly free to think and say whatever they want. That is true. But if an American ever compares America to another country and suggest he likes the other country as much or more, he’ll hit a nerve in a lot of other Americans. It never fails. Sure he’s free to state his preferences but not with being questioned or criticised. He might wonder if it’s even worth exercising his “freedom” in that regard. Why bother? Chances are it will fall on deaf ears.
@JP
There are many examples of human rights violations that exist all around the World, the question is are we going to accept or even embrace them or are we as the human race obligated to do our best to address and correct them.
And please don’t get me wrong, I am not criticizing mike for having enjoyed his trip, all I am saying is that we should be careful not to be fooled by material things to the point that we are going to close our eyes to torture.
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Kuala Lumpur and Singapore are the best and prosperous cities in South East Asia.
Kuala Lumpur is rich in multi cultural society in the world.
Singapore is the cleanest city in the world.
Americans never fail to amuse. Bruised egos and a really, really sick psyche. Defending themselves when nobody was even attacking them.
I’m sure some of you Americans must feel a little embarrassed for the blind patriotism that is so prevalent in your society. Oh wait, you can’t – that would be un-American.
Get a fucking education and stop comparing yourselves to the rest of the World when nobody asked you to. Most of us hear nothing but blind ignorance towards the larger issues, most of which America fails at best.
Enjoy your economy and the bed you sleep in – just remember you created it!
Get a fucking education and stop comparing yourselves to the rest of the World when nobody asked you to.
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You couldn’t be further off base.
To the contrary, for the most part, America doesn’t give a shit about the rest of the world, whereas you can go to most countries in Europe and at any time of the day, turn on the TV and they’ll be either talking about America, showing American shows, or doing those “man on the street” segments where they produce some toothless retard from Louisiana and mock him when he can’t identify Joe Biden in a photograph… because that’s what all Americans are.
If anything, we probably err a bit much in our total lack of consideration for the notions of other countries, but really, why should we?
(and PS- that’s ‘arrogance’ more than ‘ego’. Ego can be healthy and credible, but arrogance is always obnoxious when you’re confronted by it)
Oh, and for the record, it’s pretty amusing to compare downtown Singapore with downtown San Francisco.
One is the pinnacle of social order by way of strict social mandate, the other, the exact opposite; probably the most ‘permissive’ society imaginable (in the United States, anyway)-
One is clean, orderly, prosperous and safe while the other… not.
whether discussing .co or geography, can we not be civil here?
benno, americans are often defensive because in america citizens are constantly attacking each other. american political campaigns are the pinnacle of this circus. argument and criticism are a big part of the culture. being defensive is a reflex. and of course the blind patriotism is embarassing. because it’s usually coupled with severe ignorance. if something isn’t done, lack of education and an ever-growing level of ignorance will destroy america as we once knew it, slowly but surely. it’s very sad. but these issues are not unique to any one country. many countries have suffered from problems with patriotism and lack of education. it’s a worldwide problem and any country call fall victim to it. no one needs permission to compare their country with any other. not sure where you get that idea. we can all learn from each other.
@Ojohn – “We should not embrace canning and some of the other inhumane ways that these kinds of Countries treat their own people no matter how well polished their society looks on the surface. Material things should not make us close our eyes to torture. ”
I do endorse canning of criminals if it means there are going to be far fewer of them. Wouldn’t you? Fewer ciminals means fewer victims. Get your priorities sorted out.
Canning criminals is cruel and inhumane. Sure, there would be less criminals because they would be in cans but I think jarring and pickling is more humane because at least from a jar they could see outside.
Chris
There is a lot of cruel and inhumane conduct by people & governments a like all around the world
Personally if one person has to get canned to prevent hundreds of children from getting abducted each year and worse like in the US its well worth it
The question is
Canning criminals is cruel and inhumane.
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No, it isn’t.
It’s quite possibly the only thing that ‘criminals’ understand and a perfectly reasonable response to anti-social behaviors. That we no longer do it explains why our societies are so chaotic and dangerous in many places.
I swear to god, if I could forcibly remove everyone from their suburbs, gated communities and enclave, bus them straight into the South Side of Chicago then drop them off for a month or two, their outlook on life would completely reorient, once ‘being sheltered’ gave way to ‘being experienced’.
The majority of the people around the World who are subjected to cruel and unusual punishment are not what you might consider true criminals.
There are fanatic and extremist groups in every society around the World who will not hesitate to use any means at their disposal (torture, killings, or spreading fear) to force their ideology on others. Once these groups manage to take control of their government they make their fanatic and extremist ideologies into law and then they can violate everyone’s human rights with impunity. Whether their fanatic and extremist ideologies are based on religion, politics, race, culture or just plain hunger for money and power the end result is always the same, a dictatorial or fascist government that only thinks of its own survival and is willing to kill and torture to maintain its control over the people.
Look at women in Saudi Arabia who are put in jail because they want equal rights as men (women are still not allowed to drive or vote or travel on their own). Race and Gender discrimination whether towards women or others accounts for the majority of the human rights violations around the World.
No one should be subjected to torture, even true criminals should be controlled and managed in a way that is compatible with human rights principals. All those hardcore criminals were once three year old kids that could have been brought up to be normal and productive adults in a more perfect World.
PS: I think I have said enough, I don’t want to get canned here on this blog. 🙂
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Check out the Wikipedia page for Capital_punishment_in_Singapore for some interesting statistics.
For all you ex-GoDaddy elephant fans, note the “Past methods”.
Singapore had the world’s highest per capita executions from 1994-1999?
USA has highest incarceration rate per capita?
However the individual states vary on the adoption and use of capital punishment?
The USA is almost 300 times the size of Singapore?
True or false?
Note: Failure to check facts may result in an incorrect answer.