I have talked to two general managers at Namejet.com about this and it still drives me crazy.
and still hasn’t changed.
If you backorder a domain at NameJet.com and you’re the only one to do so, you still might very well make the NameJet.com ” Top 50 Name list”
The list is then sent to every one on the NameJet system daily, thereby advertising it to world that the domain you have backordered, even though you’re the only one.
I have argued for literally years that one backorder should not make a “Top Backorder List”, but as we sit today is still does.
No Bueno.
If I backorder a domain & I’m the only one to do so, why would Namejet advertise it to the world as a “TOP DOMAIN”?
Its not right, not fair and makes no common sense.
One expression of interest should not make a top 50 list
Unless your service is so under utilized that all you have are 50 people backordering 1 domain each so that you have to point out those domains to all others, well it speaks volumes about your service.
While no change of policy can happen overnight, after a couple of years of this, I’m personally over backordering a domain I spend hours finding mining a list of 20,0000 plus domains, only to have the domain I selected advertised to the world.
Where I come from it take at least 2 people wanting the same name to make it an active auction.
A domain ordered by one person, does not an auction make.
I like you being in my timezone. I get news throughout the day now rather than waiting until I wake up to be overwhelmed with tons of new stories everywhere all at once.
And of course it makes the top 50, which makes more auctions/more money for NameJet which is their #1 concern. If they changed the way the top 50 list works then they will just make a new way for people to see all names that already have a backorder. The difference in sale price between 1 backorder and more than one backorder can be quite significant.
@JP
“And of course it makes the top 50, which makes more auctions/more money for NameJet which is their #1 concern. If they changed the way the top 50 list works then they will just make a new way for people to see all names that already have a backorder. The difference in sale price between 1 backorder and more than one backorder can be quite significant.”
So, are you okay with the 0ne-backorder name making it to the list or not? I know the main concern of every business is to make money, but there is also something called ethics…
@Osy
I Didn’t say I support the behavior, just being realistic. At least this ugly thing they are doing is something we can see and know about.
Of course it would be better if they didn’t reveal any 1 backorder domains but it’s not like them continuing to do this is going to cause the overall number of NameJet users to go down. If one person leaves NameJet then a new person will come in their place to try and fill the gap an maybe get a better price.
Is it possible that since they know who you are and how much you bid that they’ve set up the system to show in the top 50 the big bidder’s pick?
I don’t use NameJet, but try this, get another ID and since its never been used, see if you show up on the top 50 list. Be sure to change or anonymize your IP address.
Hi MHB,
I agree with your sentiment. Quite often I backorder a domain, sometimes quite obscure, and the next thing I know 5 more people have piled into the bidding for a domain that has not too much intrinsic value except for my personal use for it.
I hate to use the ‘G’ word but when you put a 1 bid domain on a top 50 list, well, come on.
“I’m personally over backordering a domain I spend hours finding mining a list of 20,0000 plus domains, only to have the domain I selected advertised to the world.
Where I come from it take at least 2 people wanting the same name to make it an active auction.”
—————-
I feel your pain, they have took all the fun and excitement out of it since they started showing how many people have placed a backorder. (Snapnames & NameJet)
At least before they did that you had to commit yourself on every single backorder based on your own thoughts & research, now its like follow the yellow brick road and he with the most wins… again…. thats if they’re not cherry picked by the “partner registers” before the auction date.
Do they make anymore money from it overall, I doubt it.
$39, $59, $99, $??? , shill bidders?? ……they keep on squeazing
If you were on the opposite site of this complaint, you would have a different opinion. If you were selling (auctioning off) a valuable domain, you would not want it to go for $ 69. You would want to get the word out about its availability.
Years ago, there were a lot of arguments on the domain forums when someone would post a list of dropping domains. The opportunist were annoyed/nasty that someone would broadcast a valuable domain dropping.
Then, when Pool came out with the daily hotlist, people were annoyed. Because, the masses did not know a particular domain was dropping.
Let me state, I have no love for NJ/Demand. And, it is very obvious NJ/Demand only cares to look out for #1 (insider stockholders).
There are many other things we can call Namejet/Demand/Enom unethical about. But, I would not call this particular action by NJ unethical.
And, on a slightly different point, a lot of people are annoyed when people snipe at the last minute.
If it wasn’t for your industry influence (through TheDomains) Matt would tell you –
“Thank you for your business in the past. If you are not happy with the way we operate our business. We will not miss your business. Good luck in the future. “
@Meyer
It doesn’t matter if a person is with Namejet or not, or whether Namejet wants their business or not. I think the ethic is being put into question and it will continue to be an ethical issue whether Namejet has 10 or 10 million customers. Probably there will be new customers to replace ones that leave. But whatever the case, the fact is the fact. The practice itself is questionable. The objection comes because it feels like Namejet has its customers doing the work FOR them. Finding a nice dropping name and than Namejet presents it to the world to make more money for themselves. I don’t begrudge Namejet its rightful share, I just don’t want to do the work for them without getting paid. I think a few people feel that way.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Namejet, but cleaning up these little details is important.
Let’s use this analogy. If I buy a domain I really don’t want anyone publicizing the price I paid for the domain. But it happens for a reason. The company who sold it needs it for “advertising” and it also establishes market price so the industry needs it in a way as well.
I would imagine top 50 list are subjective and occasionally balanced towards “power sellers” to promote their domains. A “thank you” to the people that provide liquidity. Namejet’s purpose is to drive sale prices and provide a great daily source of solid names for buyers. I would imagine my daily list of domains that I like have hurt a few people that would have normally gotten the name with no other bidders. I would like to go to an auction,have nobody show up, and get some fantastic prices but there probably won’t be many auctions after that.
If you want to make sure you’re not on the list with one bid you can just wait five minutes before the lot closes and bid then. Simple solution
Wait till 11:00 PM and order it then right before it goes off the board.
Meyer
1st of all I still think of Namejet as an expired domain service not an auction house selling privately owned domains.
Although I think the % of owned domains at auction is pretty high when I ask Matt he says in fact its very low.
So if we are dealing with a vast majority of expired domains then your question is moot.
If your talking about a high percentage of seller owned domains then Namejet is misrepresenting their inventory
Secondly I never said NJ was unethical.
Finally NJ would get IMHO a lot more backorders and a lot more businesses if they didn’t publish a domain with 1 backorder to the world.
Then i would spend my 2 hours going through the list and probably spend $30K a month (15 domains a day) but now I spend
NOTHING
backordering domains on my own.
Shane/TLD
Sorry I have a life and can’t/won’t sit at the computer at 10.58 every night to put backorders in 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Also lets not forget if no one back orders a domain at namejet then the domain just drops and namejet and its registrar partners get nothing.
So, basically, you’re annoyed that a name you wanted got higher visibility and now, you’re going to have to pay more for it because there are other bidders?
Who’s to say that the Top 50 process should be automated? Perhaps a human eye determines when a name is Top 50, irrespective of how many bids it has…
It’s all just so LOL because the drop aftermarket system itself is so grotesque, to corrupt, so ethically bankrupt right to its very operational center that I have a hard time being sympathetic to anyone who gets screwed in the process.
Newsflash: Bed down with dogs, don’t cry when you get flea bits. The domain expiration aftermarket is the biggest mange ridden dogs ass business there is.
MHB quote
“Although I think the % of owned domains at auction is pretty high when I ask Matt he says in fact its very low.”
The domains privately owned on namejet auction platform is a small quantity compared to the vast quantity of domains expiring everyday. However, the ones privately owned are above average ‘compared’ to the ones expiring.
” So if we are dealing with a vast majority of expired domains then your question is moot.”
I didn’t realize I was asking a question.
“Secondly I never said NJ was unethical.”
I never said you did. It was another person that said they were unethical.
And, I responded to him.
“now I spend
NOTHING
backordering domains on my own.”
I assume you are saying you spend no time researching the domains.
You just enter your bid on the ones that others had backordered.
You Know
“you’re annoyed that a name you wanted got higher visibility and now, you’re going to have to pay more for it because there are other bidders?”
No I don’t screw with it anymore.
So I don’t backorder names that aren’t backordered already by others.
Don’t waste the time.
This is one of the issues I raise not because It’s happening to me, but because its just not right.
BTW the most active backorder list IS based on the number of backorders which in many cases is 1, rather than a manual look see by someone at namejet.
I raised the same issue with Godaddy and they changed it.
Namejet no
Right is right and 1 back order shouldn’t make a most active list.
Meyer
“”I assume you are saying you spend no time researching the domains.
You just enter your bid on the ones that others had backordered.””
exactly
Mike “”I assume you are saying you spend no time researching the domains.
You just enter your bid on the ones that others had backordered.””
exactly
Mike are you still using Namejet ?
Mike, you can use the SpyMode service of ZFBot at http://zfbot.com/spymode/
It’s free, just like ZFBot itself. It’s a countdown reminder to domains that interest you and which you don’t want to backorder until the last minute 😉
You can read a review at http://bit.ly/gyUjhP
I think a lot more people would use namejet if they didn’t show the names with bids. I cant stand the cherrypickers and Im not going to wait everyday @ 11pm to place a bid. I’ll just use the other bid two and pay a little more.
Namejet has screwed me over big time. When I’m ready I want everyone to know what they did to me.
Possible lawsuit pending.
@Gazzip
“I feel your pain, they have took all the fun and excitement out of it since they started showing how many people have placed a backorder. (Snapnames & NameJet)”
I dont think Snapnames shows how many people have backordered, only Namejet. Please correct me if I”m wrong.
Mike,
I’m saving up for a life and should be able to get one next year. I was only saying “you could” not “you should” wait until the last minute.
I’m afraid it does an auction make. Otherwise they wouldn’t do it.
This practice goes beyond NameJet. It is happening on every level, all the way up the chain, through the registries up to ICANN.
One way to understand this is to read Keynes’ General Theory, Ch. 12, Part V, Sections (3) and (4). Forget who the author is, and just consider the analysis.
Speculators are being pitted against speculators.
Neither investors (as in “value investors” of the Buffett variety, who expect continual returns) nor the casual domain-registering public are even involved.
This assumes one draws a distinction between a speculator and an investor. They are, in simple terms, different psychologies.
Understanding what’s happening here may also shed light on all the “hard to believe” aftermarket domain sales. Do you want to know who the buyers are?
NameJet and all the others are just doing what works. Speculators can and do create their own markets. And we can’t expect them to ignore this.
Some of us have a sense of right and wrong and what they are doing seems wrong. But this has been going on a long time now.
“Its not right, not fair and makes no common sense.”
Not right? Not fair ? Possibly. But it makes common sense since they want to milk you.
I’m one of those that waits until the last minute to bid so the names aren’t publicized. Im not a big fan of this new domain blogging trend where bloggers are posting dropping names with no bids though. I don’t get what is in it for them other than pissing off those that are watching a name and planning to bid at the last minute. Is it really that lucrative for them? Why spend hours researching dropping names you think are good and not bid on them yourself? I highly doubt they are publishing dropping domains (that have 0 bids) they plan on bidding on.
“it feels like NameJet has its customers doing the work FOR them”
This is the nature of the aftermarket business.
NJ, Pool, Snap, etc. None of them know what all the valuable names are. They lack both the skill and the motivation.
They simply have monopolised access to registration services through brute force. Hardware, bandwidth and distance.
Are we back in 2002?
Domain Expert
Ok I’ll bite.
You want to tell your tale?
I’m saving up for a life and should be able to get one next year.
)):::
Alan
Just to clarify:
While we on occasion discuss some live auction domains or those already with a lot of bids, we don’t publish these type of blogs.
“I don’t get what is in it for them”
Now I believe the bloggers who are doing this are doing it to just build an audience there are a lot of domain blogs now if you check out domaining and many are looking to grow readership.
I’d be willing to bet more people find names by just sorting the list of names with bids rather than looking at NJ’s top 50 list. Most of the time that list is crap and ends up in my spam anyway. If you put in a bid, and it’s a decent name, people will find it.
Also, it’s just word play that most of the names at NJ are actual drops. Of course they are. 1,000’s a day. But anyone who actually looks into the names will see that at least half of the “quality” names with at least 50 bidders or so, are actually names being sold. I think Stanley Pace owns half of them. And almost every one of the NNNN.com’s are being sold. The list rarely contains a true quality “drop” like loveatfirstsight.com the other day.
@MHB
Yes I will tell you about it if they don’t do right by me. I will contact you. I want everyone to know how.
Who do you use to develop your websites/ e-commercesites?
Alan that question is easily answered, they are providing a service. If someone like Shane who is the most consistent blogger on the topic, shows readers good names and they get value out of it, they will keep reading. Not everyone who blogs participates in drops.
Mike you did not say, you have quit Namejet all together now ?
RH
No I haven’t stopped using NJ altogether I join auctions that have bidders but don’t do the leg work to find domains anymore
MHB
Is it really that hard to BO on Namejet at the last minute?
We all know their rules. I don’t get people who BO in advance knowing that it will just attract more bidders.
There are some savvy domainers I see every day that do backorder in the very last minute. God bless them.
Hi EmBee,
The reality of “marketing” by registrars, especially NetSol, is to implement “used car salesman tricks” to get people to jump on their cash bandwagon of sorry customers who failed to renew their domains. You tried to nab a domain on a drop using NJ’s (NetSol) system, and you hoped that you could come in the ninja path to get it.
Unfortunately, a tiny bit of research by NJ reveals who you. That then pushes the domain you bid on into the “wow! look who wants this domain!” group and then they use your prominent position to push the domain into this non-existent “marketing brand” called the “Top 50 Backorder List”. What everyone fails to realize is that this is a nebulous “brand event” for NJ. There is no dedicated auction list or marketed “category domain list” for anyone to grab the domains they want in this “top 50” domains other than bidding on it just like any non-ending, continuing source of dropping domains.
In other words, there’s nothing “SPECIAL” about this list, other than YOUR NAME bidding on the domain which raises the level of interest for the noobs at NJ who are supposed to determine which domains can make them the most profit . It has no consistent existence that even pulls your domain into a group of these “fifty top” domains. What it does do, is direct other domain investors to wonder why you want this domain, and because of your reputation, they may want (if they are able), to try to beat you in obtaining the domain. This is called “marketing 101” at NJ and probably 3 other “registrar/domain auction” sites.
However, notice that the “Top 50 Backorder List” isn’t something that reveals itself in a ‘set’ period of time, or establishes itself as a “focused” auction point and that particular group of “Fifty” backorder domains have been set aside for some period of time to be auctioned off using the title “The Top 50 Backorder List” domains.
That’s the reveal. That’s how you know the disappearing pretty girl in the magician’s trick is in a table that is built to easily fit her inside the table, but to the public, it looks like she’s “disappeared”. The truth is that these “domain backorder” lists for NJ are punched out as easy as a the next Big Mac on the order sheet for drive through customers. That “backorder list” is only a continuing “shill” to lure buyers in and raise the price for individual buyers like yourself to pick up a good domain for cheap.
The only issue they can argue is that they are trying to get the most money for the ‘sellers’ of the domain. Except the problem with NJ is, THEY own the domains, and this auction is not a set event for their clients to sell their domains, it’s a way for NJ to make more money on domains they’ve nabbed from their customer’s dropped domains.
I know, long novel. But if your readers don’t have ADHD, they’ll get it.
My call on this is you are getting screwed, so start looking into researching FT domains!
Cheers bro!
well-known domainer sees other domainers bidding on domain name, so he bids on it too.
other domainers see well-known domainer bidding on domain, so they also bid.
still other domainers see number of bids on the domain is above a certain threshhold so they too start following the auction.
and so on.
this would be the keynesian beauty contest. none of the domainers bidding knows anything about the value of the domain as an asset (instead they are focusing on its “beauty” in the eye of another beholder). they only know someone else seems to want it.
speculators second guessing other speculators.
this is the magic (or shall we say “voodoo”) of the drop-catch resale market.
it’s likely that may particpipants are under an illusion the names are about to drop. *most* never drop. they are simply taken on by a registrar hedging their bets on the speculator vs speculator market that the “drop” creates.
but there’s a small problem for the registrar who plays thr drop-catch game. he does not know which names to take on. if he takes them all, that can be an expensive risk. he too must be a speculator. he has to rely on his best guess of what others will see as a desirable domain name. he’s watching what you do, and reacting as others have pointed out.
as unsavoury as it was, tasting largely solved this problem. it added some certainty to the process, allowing investment (buy and hold). verisign probably wishes it could bring back tasting somehow. it reduces speculation and would probably increase the number of registrations and renewals.
what we have now are markets composed almost entirely of speculators. the keynesian beauty contest.
Did you say “right and fair”
LOLOLOL
This is the domain business.
Right and fair, lol
Hey at least you can get the domain this way; remember the days of weeding thru backorder lists, finding a gem, backordering it only to find that the company you backordered it with decided to keep it for themselves. If they auction it, you at least have a shot and in my mind that seems right, if not entirely fair.
Agreed, it is annoying, which is why you have to backorder after the list goes out, or simply snipe the backorder deadline…
Namejet is a terrible business with terrible business ethics. You back order a domain, and even though you are the only bidder on more than 20 domains, you get none of the domains. And they try to trick you by saying that the domains were renewed at the last minute.
A batch of 20 domains, all renewed simutaeously. Who are they trying to deceive?
Liars
I had a domain for more than 10 years at domainpeople.com and my domain name registrar forgot to send me reminders to renew my domain. It is now in the redemption period and they want 125$ to backorder it without even garantying it. I think the system is not fair for those who originally bought the domain names. It is for me like if someone stole my domain without asking. Why do I have to backorder something I can PROVE it was mine for +10 years. I should be allowed to buy it back for maximum 20$.
My 2 cents, if anyone cares.
I learned all the negatives of bidding or hunting down deleting drops. I learned it from designing “DropGuild.com” for Bulkregister back in 2006. When Demand Media bought them, they immediately put DropGuild.com to rest. Why? Because my design allowed bidders to see the bids, the traffic and how to get the domain for a decent price very easily a quickly, without “shill bidding” (my auction design prevented that).
But, like a capitalistic pig, I took my payout on the purchase and went on to better things, like Whypark.com.
Here’s what I did learn though… waste your time chasing after dropping domains, no matter who’s dropping them. Cry when somebody bids higher, or the company that’s hosting the dropping domain auction lets everyone know how many bids are on that domain (which is their job to do for the seller — duh).
This is why back in 2003, I already started buying “Future Trend” domains for OOTB prices. I’ve made lots of money, huge profits, from just anticipating new trends and buying the generic descriptive domains for these new prodservs…
Now, hundreds of domainers are doing the same. The basic point I’d like to make here is this:
If you buy a domain name for $10 because you think it might become a popular trend… and someone offers you $100 for it, what other investment can you say will give you a 1000% profit margin, sometimes within a year of your $10 investment?
Future Trend domains take a lot of work to understand and buy the correct domain phrasings… but it’s a lot more educational, fun, and mindblowing when you sell a domain name that you didn’t sweat out bullets watching it for weeks, bidding it up, hoping nobody else gets it, etc and if you are able to buy it, it jumped from $59 to $590. Think of how much your TIME is worth, then go from there.
It’s hard for me to write this because I’m not a “slam dunk” kind of guy when it comes to domains. For all I know, my category killing FT domains might only be worth 4 figures, and my portfolio will only be worth $2.5 million instead of $30 million.
Isn’t it fun playing the “domain game’? 🙂