The theaustralian.com.au is reporting that domain name Qant.as, (as in Qantas airlines) sold for a whopping $1.35 million dollars.
The .As extension is the ccTLD of American Samoa and I’m willing to go out on a limb and say if true, its a record setting sale.
The owner of the domain, Dominic Holland said he held a private auction for the domain this week and futher says bidding started at $1M and finished at $1.35M, meaning there had to be at least 2 bidders in the auction and according to Mr. Holland despite sending out an invite to their CEO, Quatas Airlines was not one of them.
“The domain name Qant.as could be snapped up by a competitor so damage to Qantas’s business could be in the millions of dollars,” Mr Holland is quoted as saying.
“By not participating in the bid process this shows gross oversight on behalf of Qantas’s entire marketing department.”
According to the report “A Qantas spokeswoman said the company was “working to ensure there’s no confusion over our domain names”.
I know your saying this is a clear violation of trademark law, but check out what Mr. Holland has to say about this:
“A company or entity may seek legally the rights to a domain name in a similar fashion as that of trademark law. This means that a domain name must be proven to be, include or contain a trademark for which may attract consumers or viewers through utilizing a known trademark.””
“However, this does not extend to the extension of a domain name, and only applies to the preceding letters.””
“In this case Qantas would have to prove that consumers would be drawn to that domain because of the use of ‘Qant’. However, as they have at no point advertised, portrayed or conducted themselves with ‘Qant’ they hold no legal rights to the domain. The extension .as or any extension is not taken into consideration as legally it is considered an indicator of domain type or location,”
Here is what the terms of service of the .as registry has to say about disputes:
“””Disputes. Registrant acknowledges and agrees that ASNIC cannot act as an arbiter of disputes arising out of the registration and use of domain names. Disputes are to be settled by the contesting parties using normal legal means.””
It’s not clear whether the .As registry signed up for disputes to be handled under UDRP or WIPO but if they have not then those options are not available.
However under the TOS of the .As registry they say:
“”Governing Law. Registrant agrees that this Registration Agreement shall be governed in all respects by and construed in accordance with the laws of American Samoa and the United States of America””
Now if Mr. Holland is correct and trademark protection “does not extend to the extension of a domain name, and only applies to the preceding letters.” that going to create a huge problem for them when the new proposed gTLD’s come out.
So to our trademark lawyer friends out there, has Mr. Holland found a loophole in trademark law or is he full of crap?
What do you think?
Full of crap…
Well this obviously is not true for a start… you have however given him some free PR.
In answer to your question.. he is full of crap.
VERY LUCKY GUY 🙂
I love his quote
“By not participating in the bid process this shows gross oversight on behalf of Qantas’s entire marketing department.”
No sir. It shows a company not giving a shit about what boils done to basically a form of blackmail.
They dont need Q.antas, Qa.ntas, Qanta.s and or any other silly combination of a sixth rate domain extenstion that just so happens to look pretty when you add Qan in front.
Gross oversight?
I don’t think so.
They own Qantas.com and Qantas.com.au – the 2 highest and most relvant extensions for thier business plan.
Every company seems to fail when they dont protect all these new extensions but really guys — all it is is forced blackmail for the most part.
Instead of calling out a company for not buying a new extension maybe lets start giving them reasons why ..
or is just trying to make them look stupid part of the business plan?
I think they look smarter the more and more these companies do not embrace new extensions.
First, I don’t believe it’s a bona fide sale.
Second, regardless of what the registry would do or not do, a court (especially since he’s admitted his infringement), would give it to Quantas in a heartbeat.
Michael: I am going to pass this one around. Fascinating question. My initial thoughts is that the registrant is probably safe under the UDRP and ACPA. I’ll have to take a look and see if any decisions came down where the trademark was split up on both sides of the dot.
But the broader U.S. Lanham Act protecting trademarks from any form of third party use which is likely to cause confusion is still in play. So it depends on the intent of the person who bought the domain and the use to which that domain is put.
Your point about new gTLDs is a good one. While additional trademark safeguards are getting kicked around as part of the proposed registration process for new gTLDs, the UDRP and ACPA might fall short …
It is unbelievable that guy is so lucky.
“Qant.as Sells For $1.3 Million Dollars?”
The “seller’s” claim that someone paid 1.3M for this worthless domain hack (let alone the idea that TWO fools would be willing to pay in the seven figure range for it)caused the needle on my BS Detector to pin in the red then explode. I would have to label his story completely bog.us 🙂
On the plus side, I understand that casting is underway for an Australian stage production of “Pinocchio”. Perhaps, Mr. Holland is angling for the lead role.
I love how this fool has the name redirected using an iframe to
http://virginblue.com.au
note – no affiliate code and no associatin with VirginBlue thus using another scare tactic to re-emphasize his only method of selling value for this name – fear.
Oh no. virigin blue might get some Qantas business from a domain with ZERO type in traffic and is just ripe for a lawsuit.
Maybe this guy should work for George Bush 🙂 .. or at least have his attorneys.
I can’t believe the Australian printed that B.S. They should be ashamed.
I can claim that I have all sorts of buyers for my domain names at all sorts of prices.
.
ok, probably it’s a fake selling… but I believe that Quantas should buy the domain
.
i would bet money (up to $17) that this sale never happened.
Todaro
Wow $17 that’s pretty strong.
Sure you don’t want to go to at least $20
Alan
The guy does say in the article that Virgin was not one of the bidders
The Much bigger issue here is does Holland’s legal argument that trademark laws do not apply to the right of the dot hold water.
Enrico who is the only attorney to weight in here so far seems to think its at least an interesting argument
He sounds like a creep to me.
This smells like Beauty.cc
I’m not thinking the sale was real by any stretch of the imagination but he does make an interesting point… under UDRP it is consistently expressly pointed out by panelists (one of the few consistent things they all agree on) about the extension not being part of the consideration… that said, this guy is an idiot for making the claims that he has because in any court he’s just sealed his own fate with that.
WASN’T real.. .soory 😉
It’s amazing that folks still try to reinvent the beauty.cc scam after all these years.
First, try to get the most logical deep pockets to bite. When that doesn’t work, get the domain into the indexes via a bunch of press releases, articles and commentary. List it for less than the artificially high price that appeared in all the PRs. Profit…when a sucker comes along.
On second thought, maybe it’s not so amazing.
It does’nt actually say in the article that it WAS sold for $1.3 Million as far as I can tell….only that someone is supposedly willing to pay $1.3
My vote is he’s full of crap (and the so-called willing buyer for $1.3 million is probably the tooth fairy)
Even if a trademark law did’nt “technically” apply to the extension my (non-legal) guess is that how it was being used would still apply if it was used in bad faith and it went to the courts.
Sending out an invite to the CEO of Qantas Airlines was DUMB.as !
Pointing it to virgin after trying to sell it to qantas is also DUMB.as
Had he just used it for something different and nothing to do with qantas and had not contacted the CEO of qantas trying to sell it he would have been legally safe to own the name….I very much doubt so now.
If this guy is to be believed and the UDRP applies he should look no further than to the project.me case where the three person WIPO panel held that the domain name and the trademarked name PROJECT ME were confusingly similar. The decision ultimately denied transfer but that was because the domain name registration happened before the trademark registration. Dangerous business, domain hacking.
Karen
WIth ccTLD’s UDRP’s only apply if the host country or its administrator agrees to allow UDRP’s to settle disputes. Many countries have not adopted it and .As registrations may not be subject to it.
The .Me registry did agree to have disputes handled by UDRP rules
Thanks for the great laugh today, Mr. Holland.
Here’s a bit of commentary regarding applicability of TM to extensions- http://tess2.uspto.gov/tmdb/tmep/1200.htm#_T120903m.
MHB, I see that ICANN does not list as an accredited registrar and the .as registry does not have any policies with respect to disputes other than what was mentioned in your blog. But I stumbled upon a 2001 WIPO decision concerning the domain name philips.as. see http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2001/das2001-0002.html. I also found an old cached version of .as’ registrar agreement, which at one time incorporated ICANN Policy. http://www.nic.as/udrp.cfm. Perhaps there was an .as registry and then this one took over? Maybe someone can explain it.
Oddly, when I went to look up the .as WHOIS info at the official .as registry to look up the domain registration the message indicated that the domain was “available.” I also went to a the 101domain.com registrar and typed in quant.as. It also said the domain was “available.” I then went back to nic.as and the website appears to be having some sort of tech problems. Weird.
Larry
That discussion involved around whether a mark can be registered as distintive but still doesn’t answer the question of whether a domain as a whole can violate someone’s registered mark.
Go to .as registry and type in quant.as to check the domain availability. You will see that the domain is “available.” Also, check the domain availability at 101domain.com. It too shows the domain is available. Huh?
Karen
There is no “u” in Qantas
http://www.qantas.com.au
Larry, the PTO guides and Manual of Examining Procedure, as well as the EU TM Office known as the “OHIM” take the view that Examiners are not to consider the Tld as part of a mark under most circumstances when determining whether the mark is capable of functioning as a source identifier. Likewise, most UDRP panelists take that view too. There have been, however, some very rare UDRP decisions that look to the right of the “dot” in determining whether a domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark.
Therefore, Mr. Holland may be correct in his assessment that he’s not violating Quantas’ trademark rights, per se. That doesn’t mean he won’t be sued as others point out. Right now, Quant.as is redirecting to Virgin Blue’s website, but most likely Virgin Blue will shut that down right away, lest they be liable for contributory trademark infringement. It would be advisable for Mr. Holland to do something entirely different with the site other than to point it to Quantas’ competitors and/or use it as an airline site.
This does remind me of the beauty.cc ‘sale’.
I don’t believe it, and it’s surprising this kind of thing still happens in 2010.
He probably went through this whole show to get some interest from Quantas, but the value to them would be very minimal. A good hack for that word though.
MHB, thanks for pointing that out. Qant.as. Oh boy, a little confusing, don’t you think?
Did the winner get a stuffed Koala bear?
David
There was a stuffed Koala bear included?
I love those
Ha ha
This guy won’t be flying anywhere anytime soon.
His various linked in profiles are just as funny.
Looks like he’s also trying it with http://westp.ac/
April 1st isn’t for a few weeks.
“Dominic Holland held a private auction this week and says…”
“Mr Holland originally purchased the domain name for around $20…”
“He said that bidding started at $1m and finished at $1.35m… ”
“Deal finalisations have commenced and this means…”
Even if you accept any of that nonsense as having even a remote possibility of being true…
“Mr Holland said he was still open to more offers…”
Huh? 1.3M isn’t enough? Oh wait… there wasn’t really an “auction”? “deal finalisation” means he can still sell to another bidder?
…not to mention the legal liabilities the fictitious bidder would have as a direct result of Mr’ Hollands further arrogance:
“In the meantime he has redirected Qant.as to display Virgin Blue’s homepage….”
Seriously, all this is merely a blatant attempt to extort payment from Qantas Airlines.
A-hole pisses me off with this as it gets press and will now go globally viral (even if untrue, which it obviously is) and what will the net result be? Yes, WE will all get branded as cybersquatting scum because the layman has no clue we do not all do cr*p like this.
..and The Australian should have definitely known better than to give this any kind of stage in the first place.
He’s at it again.
Another of his domains is ‘westp.ac’ (since Westpace is a large Aussie bank)
I’m not sure why anyone would believe his claims. Aussie newspapers have zero integrity when reporting the news … they don’t have make any distinction between reliable sources, rumours or lies. Saying ‘It was published in ‘The Australian’ is really no more credible than saying ‘It was on Wikipedia’ or ‘It was on an anonymous blog’.
As long as they can cover themselves by using the right phrases, they’ll report any nonsense.
So they’ll avoid reporting “Hitler was a nice guy”, but they’ll happily claim “Hitler was a nice guy, according to a recent historical report” – without the need to point out that ‘historical report’ just means ‘someone wrote it’ !
Mac
What an absolute fool! It’s low life bottom feeders such as this that give our industry a bad name and drag legitimate domainers who are making an honest buck down with him. It’s amazing how many companies respond to me by calling me a cybersquatter when I’m marketing them generic domains such as eg. babyprams.net. It’s no wonder when the media gives crooks like this exposure and publishes his unfounded claims like they are fact. I despise the fact they call him an online entrepreneur and that a fellow Australian has stooped to this low level.
I found this guys “fan page” on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dominic-Mars-Holland/96660698884?v=wall&ref=search#!/pages/Dominic-Mars-Holland/96660698884?v=wall&ref=search
I’ll certainly be becoming a “fan” so that I can blast him with my opinion on what he is doing.
To the few that said or thought:
“THAT GUY IS LUCKY!”…
Why would you say he is lucky? I don’t get it…
That domain is pure garbage…have you EVER typed in a name with an .AS ccTLD, let alone ever typed in “QUANT.COM” for that matter, looking for something in particular, or just to see if the name is available? I’d bet dimes to dollars that has never happened with 99.12% of you…
Q: Who in their right mind will ever go looking for Quantas Airlines at that domain name?
Q: Who in their right mind will ever type in that domain freely without the use of large sticks and possibly some waterboarding?
Q: How is thing guy ever going to recoup a 1M+ investment in a used porta-potty?
The more I read the majority of daily rantings from domainers, the more I think you are all out to lunch.
If you don’t own a dictionary, category killer domain (singular, or plural), or a growing niche market domain, you’re just going to get burned…
Even with the BEST SEO in the universe, there is nothing relevant to this term (quant) besides it being used as a pseudonym for the “puppets inside Goldman Sachs” using math for global economic domination, (yes they are called “quants” for their work as “quantitative analysts” – and they are the architects of the economic meltdown we find ourselves dealing with).
Hey, if the grass is good, keep on smokin’, right?
Sorry guys, in my astonishing haste to file my post above, I even got the domain wrong…LOL Adding fuel to the fact that it is garbage… I read the story, and still could not get it right… I guess it’s an Aussie thing…spelling words with Qs and no Us… But the basic tenants of my post still hold true…
Wow what a barga.in
Problem is if a criminal buys the domain and sets up a fake booking site to steal credit card numbers, or on the westp.ac one, they set up a fake online banking to steal peoples logins (I think it’s called phishing?). People who aren’t too familiar with computers and the internet might be duped into believing those URL’s are official.
QANTAS is an abbreviation of Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Services. It’s not an actual word.
http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/company/global/en
Another mainstream publication has picked up this story:
http://ibtimes.com.au/articles/20100306/theres1-3m-bid-qant-as-domain-says-dominic-holland.htm
This is Australia’s Next Big Con Man
Tell him what you really think
Dominic Holland 0416138261
@Andy: ” Problem is if a criminal buys the domain and sets up a fake booking site to steal credit card numbers, or on the westp.ac one, they set up a fake online banking to steal peoples logins”
The problem with that argument is that westpac would also be obliged to pay for every subdomain possible, including:
westpac.banking.com, westpac.internationalbanking.com, westpac.moneytransfers.biz,westpac-ba.nk etc..
There are an infinite number of plausible addresses- most of which would be much more plausible looking than westp.ac
BTW – The previous poster who commented that the whole industry must be high is missing the point – nobody has paid a million dollars for this site. It’s just a story to attempt to sell it.
Since Dominic failed to sell his westp.ac domain to anyone I think it’s clear that his business model doesn’t actually work!
Apparently the domain qant.as has been dropped. A whois or a DNS check on the root servers returns Domain Not Found:
whois qant.as
ASNIC Whois Server V3.1.0
Domain Not Found
it is an interesting legal question no doubt.
but doesn’t sound like qantas is biting.
and this is australia. not the home of the lanham act. how much authority is there outside of the us federal circuit courts that the domain extension should not be a considered in assessing infringment?
every smart domainer knows that this sort of thing is a strategy for some new gtld applicants.
if this guy’s strategy bothers you, and you also support new gtlds, and icann gets away with their new gtld scheme, you are going plenty more of this.
right of the dot, left of the dot. it’s a string. and if users can’t type accurately and if they get confused, it’s the result that matters. mass confusion with respect to the source of goods/services is just never going to fly under any legal system.