Is The Internet Commerce Association (the “ICA) dead?
Phil Corwin who’s Washington Law firm has represented the Association at ICANN meetings, and through its various committees and workshops, and represented domainers interests in matters from the Snowe Bill to the Kentucky Domain Seizure case, to the Uniform Rapid Suspension, contract with the ICA ended on December 31, 2009.
No one has been retained by the ICA to replace Phil.
So currently the ICA has no one representing them.
I can sum of the ramification for domainers of this in one word:
Disastrous.
2010 ICANN will be passing more rules and regulations for the new gTLD’s which as we have said on numerous occasions very well could effect existing registries and extensions, like .com and .org.
One of the outcomes of the the new extensions are new rules pushed by trademark groups and even maybe shorter, quicker and cheaper UDRP and WIPO procedures that complaints already have a 85%+ win rate.
The immediate problem is that the comment period on STI-RT Recommendations with ICANN closes in two days, on January 26th.
The ICANN announcement is at here .
The report proposes a vastly more balanced version of the URS (Uniform Rapid Suspension) with important registrant protections, including a safe harbor defense for ownership of a domain portfolio as well as for domain parking.
Phil was instrumental in getting the original URS knocked out in favor of this proposal.
Unfortunately, the only folks to comments on this proposal so far as those representing the trademark holders interests and they’re against it.
(You can read about the URS proposal by clicking here)
Trademark groups including the INTA and others are encouraging trademark holders to file comments against this more modest proposal in favor a the original URS.
Phil Corwin who would normally file a comment on behalf of the ICA will not be doing so.
Mr. Corwin would also be letting all domainers know about this situation and urge all domainers to submit their comments on this proposal by the due date January 26, 2010.
If we don’t support this verision trademark groups will get a stronger, brustal verision passed.
As we have pointed out on many other occassion almost every word; 2 and 3 letter combination and saying and phrase is trademarked in the US. Moreover trademarks registered in countries other than the US can and often are used by trademark holder to take away generic domains from domain owners.
(You can check out the UdrpWallOf Shame.com to see just a few of these type of decisions).
I don’t have a magic solution at this point and unless something fundamentally changes, as a group we are pretty much on our own.
No Bueno.
You should take a minute out of your day and comment in favor of the proposal on the table and say a Hail Mary for the money and the time spent before you.
I was always disheartened by the fact that not one single email I ever sent them was returned.
I had a simple question and asked it many times, and I wanted it answered before I made a donation, but I never got a reply.
I was prepared several times to make a $1000 donation, but I could not get a response, so I did not make a donation..
Still, I agree, we really need this organization protecting us. Maybe Berryhill would like to have the torch passed to him???
This is the biggest disaster to ever happen to domaining and spells the possible end of the industry as we know it. I cannot emphasize how important ICA has been in representing our interests and the heart of the ICA was Phil Corwin. the short-sightedness of this industry and the people who can afford to contribute but have not done so is absolutely mind-boggling.
Every other industry fights for its self-preservaation, but Domainers keep their heads stuck firmly in the sand and say “let someone else do it and spend their money to protect MY interests.” If new counsel should be hired *(assuming there are funds to do so) the time needed to bring any other attorney or lobbyist up to speed would be an inordinately long one. The accomplishments of Phil Corwin with such limited financing available to him have been truly amazing. I can’t believe that the President and Board of ICA have allowed this to happen, if for no other reason than to protect the funds that have ALREADY been spent.
I believe that I can safely predict that if this situation isn’t corrected IMMEDIATELY, 2010 will go down as the year that Domaining became a business of the past because our domains will be taken freely by the Trademark industry led by CADNA.
I second vote for John Berryhill
I’m all about fighting for fairness but at what point doesn’t it become worth it? So really what will result of these weak laws, you going to lose 1 domain out of 10,000? How much money you going to fight to save that. Life is not fair. Business is not fair. Just like owning a retail store that has to account for theft. I admit I don’t know jack about this, but if you want to get the masses involved you need to think of ways for people to fight justice without taking dollars out of their wallet.
Puckett/Em
Your missing the point.
No one is going to do what is basically a full time job without getting paid.
Not Phil
Not Mr. Berryhill
So Its not about nominating people to work for free.
Its about the complete failure the domainers to support the one organization that stood up for domainers interests
Even today while the comments continue to pour in about the incredibly unimportant post about whether macaroni.com or ravioli.com is worth more, the are only a few comments on this issue.
Leave it to Mike to nail this new in mid-air!!!
There’s no question: Phil Corwin was- and SHOULD BE our guy! But I have to agree with Puckett- Where was there ANY contact back from ICA to any of our questions- and by that I’m probably pointing at Mike, then Jeremiah. In my case, it was after the TRAFFIC conference in Santa Clara last summer, end of april.
I sent TWO emails to ICA at the end of October 09, asking if or why they showed no confirmation of my (traditional) donation of $1,000- made AT THE CONFERENCE there in Santa Clara. I got no response to either!
If this could have happened to me it no doubt could have happened to others. Bottom line is: We want and NEED Phil Corwin to remain on our side.
And WHY did we not hear of any of this before? Our energetic organizers- yes, like those behind TRAFFIC have never missed a beat in promotion of THEIR conferences; but why NO NOTICE FROM ANYONE that ICA was in free fall?
I hope I’m not the only one who’s pissed! (Please DON’T take this personally at all Howard or Jeremiah or Mike or anyone — bottom line is: we need to ALL KICK ASS! Without Phil and the ICA we can kiss our (auction-loving) asses goodbye!
Roy Flanders
Jody
First of all if the rules get much loser and in favor of trademark holders, you may lose a lot more than 1 in 10,000 domains.
You may start to lose hundreds of domains.
If you fight these the cost alone will be $5K per so now your talking about hundreds of thousands in costs and fee to defend these.
If you don’t fight the claims you will start losing them in mass and then you will be labeled a serial cybersquatter which will cause you to lose even more domains over the years.
Beyond the numbers if you lose 1 domain that’s worth 5 or 6 figures or a domain you paid 5 or 6 figures to acquire, which is generic in nature or without a US trademark when you registered it, and you lose it to a trademark filed years after (there are cases like this) or based on a trademark filed in a country far, far away, your going to regret not spending that whopping $295 a year to support the ICA
Guys
Lets keep in mind that Jeremiah and the good folks at Sedo have spent a ton of time without any compensation to do work on behalf of the organization.
The ICA did have a paid administrator, Michael Collins for a few years, but again there was no money to pay him.
Yes there is no one to e-mail you, to answer your questions or to give you red carpet service.
I gave $45K to the ICA for the the last three years and haven’t talked to Jeremiah in a year.
However that’s not what I’m paying for.
I’m paying for Phil to represent mine and your interests in front of ICANN and where ever the battle for my and your domains goes.
plain & simple… we need a webpage. i have hundreds of real hits a day that don’t make me any money at all i could send to it. others have tens of thousands. domainers could quickly make it the most linked page on the web. from it we could put an easy form to contact your congressman and senator and involve mom& pop business domain owners as well, icaan is nothing but a bunch of racketeers playing one group against another in order to make money for themselves and we shoud put a stop to it before they take everything we have… or not.
United we stand – divided we fall.
Anything will happen if we let it happen.
People have never been united – if we have we would fight no wars (so there would be no rich or poor).
So what’s the plan ? Has the ICA issued a statement or something ? I can’t find anything on their website
The simple question I wanted answered was, “Can I make a donation anonymously?”
I don’t think that is asking for red carpet service. I just needed a simple Yes/No and how to do it b/c I did not see how to do it at their site. I realize that is still “administration” work and someone needs to be paid, but if there is not enough money for someone to just answer simple emails, how will there ever be enough money for legal counsel?
I’m still up for contributing though……I’ve seen the good work they have done. I just want an answer.
I think the comments from Michael Berkens and Howard Neu are right on target. Insufficent financial support for the ICA has severely limited what it can do. Like Michael and others I have warned for years now that the few major contributors to the ICA could not and would not keep paying the tab for everyone else.
It costs way into six figures annually to pay Phil (who has done an unbelievable job for the industry) and an Executive Director. Those have always been the ONLY two paid employees in the organization and over a year ago the Executive Director position was vacated and left unfilled due to lack of funding (I’m sure this caused a lot of the lack of response issues people have experienced). The board felt the money available had to go to keeping Phil on the job and all 2009 funding has gone to his salary and travel expenses. It is a good thing that is where the money was spent because Phil did indeed help avert several disasters last year.
Regarding the President and the Board “allowing this to happen” people should know that the board is made up of UNPAID VOLUNTEERS who have done nothing but donate their time (most of whom had little to spare) energy and, in the cases of the founding members, huge amounts of money to the effort because they felt it was IMPERATIVE that the industry have a body like this to fight for domain owner rights before ICANN and the US government. It is the ultimate thankless job. You work for nothing and even at your own expense and then are critized for trying to do something to protect the industry. They did nothng to “let” anything happen. If there is not enough money to pay the bills the only responsible thing you can do is drop the services you can’t afford. When looking for someone to blame people need to look in the mirror first and say “did I do anything to help?” Michael and Howard can certainly answer yes to that and there are big holes in their bank accounts to prove it.
After the ICA was founded I was asked to serve as an independent director so, though I haven’t been there from day one, I have seen how things have unfolded in recent years including attempts to add board seats – up to a dozen – and get other people to serve in ICA officer positions. No one ever stepped forward so the work has continued to fall on the shoulders of the handul of volunteers who think (and still think) such an organization is critical to the industry’s long term survival.
The good news is that, at least based on the most recent information I have, the ICA is not dead yet (though it is probably on life support), nor is its relationship with Phil. I am not a spokesman for the ICA nor am I authorized to speak for the ICA or Phil. However, speaking as a concerned member of the industry, I can say that before leaving for the Traffic and Domainfest conferences it was my understanding that a new agreement with Phil was desired by both sides – one that would trim some of the time and expenses he has to spend on ICA matters but would allow him to keep him working on critical matters as the organization’s Legal Counsel (obviously Phil is not going to begin doing that until he has a new contract but I know that Phil believes in the industry and wants to continue to work on our behalf).
It is also possible the ICA will change its organizational structure to try to continue the fight as best it can given the current financial realities. I would be very surprised if it shuts down completely but what the ICA can do will be strictly limited to the resources the industry puts into it. An annual ICA board meeting is scheduled to take place at Domainfest next week (these are always open to the public) and we should learn what will happen going forward there.
I am hoping for the best but also prepared for the worst because I’ve yet to see any sign that, at the grass roots level, the vast majority of people in the business are going to doing anything to help protect themselves. Like they say, there is no free lunch and those who have been footing the bills won’t and can’t keep picking up the tab for everyone else. Win or lose, those who did help by becoming members, volunteers and financial supporters deserve a big thank you for at least getting into the game.
If there is a chance that Phil will stay on if the funds needed are met then we should have a fundraiser of sorts.
Find out from Phil if he’s game, get his word on it, and let’s do this.
I’ll start by pledging 10K.
Thanks Ron, very informative. Keep us posted on the developments post-Domainfest
Great post Ron, domaining is a fledgling industry it makes sense that it was run by mostly volunteers. That is usually what happens with a new industry.
Secondly it is a fragmented industry, there is no “WE” because two people own domain names they are on the same team ?
Who is the ICA reaching out too ? Who is it you are looking to join, anyone who owns more than a couple domains ? Plenty of people who own domains are not worried about losing their hand reg domain. So when Michael talks about the people who have a five to six figure domain or have paid six figures for a domain (How many people on this planet are in that group ?) Are they the people who should be putting up the big money ?
It seems like the top 100 domainers and domain companies in the world have it in their interest to fund the ICA, and anything they get from other people such as the hobbyist or the Namepros domainer is extra. These people have the most to lose. Some of them make millions, why are they not spending one million to protect their millions ? Because like Michael says people like him and Frank and Kevin who own tens of thousands of domains are going to spend a lot on their own or lose plenty of domains to TM groups.
When you talk about who has written a big check, congrats, they should have. They have the most to lose, they make millions. People who make millions spend hundreds of thousands to protect their millions.
The grassroots movement will not work because the small domainer who Michael wants to put out $295 and have no say or even any real recognition, are not interested. Polls on Namepros have been done showing most would never support the ICA, they don’t believe the ICA cares about them. And no need to get going with the scare tactics, these people don’t own any six figure domains or in most cases five figure or four figure so they are not going to lose great domains and will just find another domain name most of the time. So don’t ask the little guy to help fund your protection, your all millionaires step up to the plate and protect your fortune. I am not saying everyone interested in the industry should not contribute but it cannot be “Hey little guy give us money or your LLLL.com that you paid $30 for might get lost in a TM dispute.”
Why don’t all these conferences take a % and donate to ICA ? If there is no ICA and domainers will lose all their domains, NO MORE CONFERENCES.
Let put it this way—most of us who do not own those top domains and earn millions would like to see those companies take away your domains.
As you recalled, most would love to see Donald Trump succeed and also most who like to see him fail too.
Totally agree with John Beckwith!!!
Most of the good domains are own by less than 10 people on this planet, so why do common folks like me care?
I don’t want to see anyone lose their domain, I just think two things:
1) I cannot believe between Ham,Schilling,Day,Berkens,Schwartz,Latona,Castello Brothers, Parked, Sedo, Thought Convergence, Fabulous, and OVERSEE that $1million cannot be raised to give Corwin a good budget. That’s just 12 people/organizations. Now I don’t think the whole burden should be on them, but it just seems in their self interest. How much do these 12 entities make a year ?
2) The ICA needs to be a better organization reaching out and communicating more effectively. There are a lot of organizations out there looking for money. Those who communicate best will do the best.
A lot of people weighed in on the SnapNames auction scandal, even if it didn’t affect them financially. If one-percent of that energy was used to make submissions to ICANN comment periods, there’d be no problems. It doesn’t take a huge amount of time, beyond what people are already doing (I just finished submitting separate comments to the EOI and the STI comment periods which end soon, so they should appear in their respective archives by the end of the day).
John
“”domaining is a fledgling industry it makes sense that it was run by mostly volunteers. That is usually what happens with a new industry.””
This is not a “new” industry it didn’t start last year, or two years ago, it started about 10 years ago and the ICA itself is 3 1/2 years old.
“””Secondly it is a fragmented industry, there is no “WE” because two people own domain names they are on the same team ?””
“””Who is it you are looking to join, anyone who owns more than a couple domains ? “”
“”Plenty of people who own domains are not worried about losing their hand reg domain. “”
John you make is sound like there are two sets of domainers.
The big guys you mention and the guys who have 5 hand reg domains.
John I just was at a domain show in Vegas which 200 people paid thousand of dollars to attend in registration fees, travel, hotels etc and next week over 500 people will gather in LA for DomainFest.
These are not guys with 2 hand reg domains.
If they have for what ever reason enough interest to attend these shows, and spend THOUSANDS of dollars to attend, they certainly have $300 a year to support a trade organization.
Every day 150-200 domains get backordered at namejet.com at $69 per, that’s $10,000 a day.
I bet you that the people you mention in your comments are responsible for less then 10 of those backorders.
So I think you are minimizing the amount of money in this business.
Any mom and pop business owner will when they start their business, purchase insurance even when they first start out and usually before the first dollar is generated.
Why?
Because every businessman knows that you can lose your business if you don’t protect yourself.
Know one is asking the average domains to do anything more than paying what amounts to 4 namejet backorders a year, to protect your rights.
And despite wanting to just place the responsibility solely on the “bug guys”, I hate to tell you but money is just one of the issues.
A trade group needs Members
The more members, the stronger the group becomes,
The more members the increase influence it will have.
You think a representative of the ICA or any trade group is going to impress a congressman when he says he represents a trade group of 10 people?
No
We need a trade group that has numbers.
We want whoever represents us to be able to say “I represent 1,000 domain owners, small and large businessmen and investors and these are our concerns”
“””So when Michael talks about the people who have a five to six figure domain or have paid six figures for a domain (How many people on this planet are in that group ?) “”
I think the group is a LOT large than you think
Look at Ron Jackson weekly list of reported domain sales.
Week after week, month after month, there are hundreds of thousands of dolalrs in domain sales.
Buydomains.com sells $500K a week alone.
Sedo sells hundreds of thousands a week.
Who is buying all these domains?
According to you it’s me, Frank and the Ham’s.
Wrong.
“”””
Polls on Namepros have been done showing most would never support the ICA, they don’t believe the ICA cares about them”””
The ICA represents domainers as a class and domain ownership.
Issues that effect all domain owners as a class.
For example the ICA spent time and money fighting the Kentucky domain seizure.
How many of the 141 domains that were seized were mine, franks and the ham’s.
None.
But we support the fight because of the bigger picture and the effect such a ruling could have on all domains.
The big guys have stepped up.
To protect their assets and your assets.
But at some point if your going to be a businessman your have to watch your own back.
If you ever want to become successful in domaining or any business you better not have the attitude you expressed here that if someone away takes something you own, I’ll just get something else.
Anything you don’t give a shit about losing isn’t worth having in the first place
I think it would be appropriate if each domain conference ticket sold (or paid membership of DNForum, for that matter) would include a small donation to ICA. I am sure most people would not mind that.
Actually, ICA already has the weighted membership with different classes, so if the big investors are still active members, they are paying the most. But apparently only a few of them are doing so, which is indeed quite difficult to understand.
Small-time domainers certainly should contribute more as well, though. I signed up as an associate member just last week. Wonder if that money will be brought to use.
Umm maybe this sounds like it should be obvious, but how do you make submissions to ICANN comment periods. It would be nice if your answer was simple like “well click on this link to get to ? , and when your there do this or that, explaining simple as possible….Is it possible to frame the form with directions and info in the surrounding frames…I would assume someone could do it in a couple hours……I want to comment just don’t have a clue…………ica needs funding …Wtf ? Very believable though considering most Domainers are not millionaires , all they have is their traffic,….The ica has pooled the traffic to bring awareness amongst domainers and its importance in the industry to each other,…Now its time to make real money for them than relying on donations from such a small community of domainers.
What if the ica made a few high paying and converting splash pages, and the publisher/domainer can choose which one to promote on their non blog sites ! cause thats where the real traffic is. Instead of donating money we’d be donating impressions the ica can monetize. Maybe make a wall of people and their impressions donations as a novelty and for transparency. I throw soo many impressions away for years why not send those lost users to someone that will ultimately benefit me.
Coffee, My latest addiction.
Thank you Michael for the professional reply.
You are correct you need numbers, then why not get the numbers with a cheap fee. Equity78 on Namepros talked about $20 membership. If the members get no voting rights why don’t you take the $20 to build the numbers up for membership ?
I did not mean you and Frank and Ham should pay for everything. But the 12 I mentioned have the most at stake. My point was why between them is there not enough to handle the budget ?
The others who join will be extra money.
Michael you have to admit the ICA does not communicate well. Why no membership drive ? Why not advertise on DNF and Namepros, on top blogs like yours and DNW and Chef Patrick etc…
What about BIG DADDY ? Can anyone take this organization serious without the biggest player in domains ? Where is Go Daddy ?
Michael IMO it is still a fledgling industry. Its not seasoned. There is so much hidden nonsense, lack of transparency.
Here is another thing, I may want to give $295 to the ICA but it seems on shaky ground, donating to the ICA is not like mom and pop buying insurance, at least they know what their premiums are going to and can have something tangible.
ICA needs to communicate better.
What is Corwin’s salary demands ?
How much is needed for all travel expenses ?
When will the ICA go after domainers, some who are members for cybersquatting and other illicit practices ?
As far as the number of people with six figure domains, it would not surprise me, I was asking how many you thought.
Look at $295 you get no recognition, so charge $20 and get none. Who cares then Corwin can say I represent 1000 members. You are not getting to 1000 at $295. Bottom line I believe in the core principle of the ICA I just feel they are not a good organization when it comes to people and communicating.
Back to the 12 I mentioned because I did mention more than you, Frank and Ham. Sedo makes a lot of money from domainers, Howard Neu wants to talk about the end of domaining in his post then its the end of SEDO. How can they afford along with you, Schilling, Parked, Ham, Latona, Oversee, Thought Convergence etc… to let that happen. Answer that how can you 12 afford it ? And Howard maybe everyone is following your partners advice, if Schwartz not supporting ICA ( I REALIZE FOR REASONS OTHER THAN THE MONEY) Why be surprised others are not.
Again why doesn’t TRAFFIC and DOMAINFEST and DOMAIN MARDI GRAS take 5% of all fees generated and donate that to the ICA ? NO ICA, NO DOMAINING, NO CONFERENCES. Either its the end of domaining or not without the ICA, lets not flip flop.
And yes Michael there are two sets of domainers,you think guys with 200 domains making $30 a month in PPC relate to you or Frank or Ham ? We are not all on the same side either IMO, because you own domains and I own domains we are not on the same side, you own many adult domains (I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT) but you think others who own domains that are against pornography feel like you are a teammate ?
A lot of agendas here, and the big guys in this industry only care about the small guys when they want money. We need a plan that represents all and not just give us money or lose your domain.
But you do a good job Michael, maybe you should be president of the ICA and change some things and improve communication.
George you are right and you make some great points.
$1 to join + marketing = 10,000 members in a month, then you get the big donations
A couple of years back I tried to drum up some support for the ICA and got banned at DNForum because of some pathetic, unbendable rule about “advertising external links”.
After 15 years in this “industry” the one thing that is apparent to me is that 99% of “domainers” spend their day in petty arguments about politics, the war on terror and global warming. If something even slightly controversial happens, like a satirical post on DomainGang about DNForum closing, they’ll be posting about it for weeks but, when something important like the ICA comes along, the best you can hope for are 100 conspiracy-theory posts about how the ICA is a front for alien mind control.
I used to love domaining, back in the early 2000s, when there was a true community of people who helped each other out. Now, with the imminent demise of the only group fighting for us, it’s every man for himself.
u talkin to me,……….Professionalism is another word for kiss my a$$ and say it the way you know I like it 🙂
This could become a crisis quickly if cooler heads do not prevail. The question I would like to ask is, “What is the first, most effective thing we can do to keep domainers’ interests protected?”
My thought is we find someone who would be willing to work on a short-term contract basis, with an option for a longer term, to represent the interests of the domain industry. If that can be Mr. Corwin, Mr. Berryhill, Mr. Neu, Mr. Bayme or any other esteemed member of the legal community, who also happens to be well-acquainted with the domain industry ( no time to waste educating someone who does not understand ), we can make a beginning.
How about a provisional contract that states the short-term representation begins after a certain funding threshold is met? Nature abhors a vacuum, and so must we.
This industry is still relatively new, but it certainly has gone beyond the incipient, virtually embryonic stages of 2001, ’02 and ’03. We are now at what is the most dangerous time of our existence, adolescence. But this is also the time of greatest opportunity!
Pray we work as a team on this issue, for we will only be able to compete and work with each other in later days if we handle this situation well. There’s no time for finger-pointing or rushing to accuse anyone of self-aggrandizement. Of that last point we are all famous, as entrepreneurs, I believe.
What will the aforementioned proposal cost, what can I give, and how quickly can we begin to patch this hole in the life-raft that has carried the industry through some stormy waters in the past 18 months?
In the alternative, place an idea on the table and let us assiduously debate our individual and collective roles in our own survival.
John
Since you have taken a lot of time to reply I will direct these comments to you although they are meant to be general.
As far as voting goes, there is nothing to really vote about the ICA.
Personally I haven’t even been asked to vote on any issue since the Tucows issue about 1 1/2 ago.
The ICA operates quite differently than it did a few years ago.
Phil represents domainers interests in obvious critical situations.
ICANN proposals, URS, WIPO and UDRP proposed changes, the Snowe bill, the Kentucky domain seizure, the issues that are no-brainers, important issues that effect domain names in a very broad manner.
So bottom line is voting is a non-issue.
The recognition you get at $295 is to be a member and listed on the site and the ability to list your membership on your site but the reason to join is self-preservation.
I think the idea of each trade show collecting a certain amount, even $50 a ticket and contributing to the ICA is an excellent one and I will try to push for it.
Parking companies should contribute at least $25K each to the ICA, some have in the past, they actually have the most to lose if domainers have to rethink parking their domains based on UDRP and WIPO decisions.
Big domainers have contributed and need to continue.
Fortunately this issue was raised right before domainfest and hopefully we can get some positive resolution to this situation this week.
Domainers, large and small are going to have to post their comments on this pending ICANN proposal and I will have more details on that in a separate post tomorrow
Who cares… We got a party and conference to attend to every other week, eh? 😉 🙁
“Domainers keep their heads stuck firmly in the sand”
If the companies that make millions upon millions a year can’t get together or find it important enough to keep it going why should I? They have the most to gain from having an org like this. And the most to lose if one doesn’t exist. They can’t get a million raised from the money we put into this industry every single year? We have to spend even more to help the Sedos, Buydomains, and Shillings?
Bollocks.
How much does it cost to run the ICA ? I’m just curious. What was Phil being paid on that contract ? What was accomplished under the contract specifically ?
I’d rather invest in developing out my top 1% of names as a form of protection. This is like guarding a Rolls Royce with ‘The Club’, waste of money no matter how little. Yeah someone is fighting for you but with nunchucks and a water pistol. Please load up your soldiers before you risk killing people’s money. This is so low on people’s priority scale, they’d rather make donations towards the study of ants. $1 is the right entry level price point, then people with more to lose have more to gain by throwing their money in the pot.
I’d just like to weigh in to support the work that Phil has done at ICANN. Phil has been a very positive force for constructive change and dialog there. I sure hope something gets worked out to allow him to continue.
By the way, here’s the link to the Public Comments page at ICANN — this is a good spot to get the overview of what’s going on. If you follow the links for the “open for comment” issues, you will find an “add a comment” link at the bottom. I’d recommend reading the prior comments before posting.
http://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/
Here’s the link to the “Special Trademark Issues Report” (which Phil was instrumental in drafting, and which I think bears supporting)
http://www.icann.org/en/public-comment/#sti
Regarding the question about anonymous donations to the ICA — the ICA was requested to provide a list of contributors when they applied to join the ICANN Business Constituency, and maintain a public list of donors thereafter. So, while I don’t have any connection to the ICA (except as a contributor), I think the answer is “no, no anonymous contributions” at least as long as the ICA is a member of the BC.
John Berryhill would of course add common sense to the ICA, but I would much rather see Senators Casey or Spector send up his name for the Third Circuit.
My reading has always been that we need to foster the “casual” domainer and set entry points for those to gain a viewpoint and get started.
I have to agree with the sentiment that a lower entry fee would garner more support. There are at least a few thousand domain owners who can afford to participate at current levels, but maybe a million more who’d ‘get it’ at $5.
On the other hand there are potentially millions who ‘want’ to be involved, except for the perceived costs and risks. Give them $2 memberships, and they shall join.
I have known for more than a decade that domain name ownership is at risk, which is one reason I did not contribute my capitol to it until more recently.
There are many like myself who simply love words and have a collection of domains who would ‘like’ to contribute, but amongst all the other costs of living etc, hundreds per year for ICA just doesn’t make sense when portfolio upkeep often by far exceeds income from this enterprise at this stage (common territory – who’s really making big profits this year? Fewer and fewer.).
It is not always purely domain ownership that makes a business.. after so many years, it’s good to see we’re still worried about ‘an outcome’. My major stake in this debate falls on the side of “make a low level entry price” and we’ll see thousands of new entrants pile in. FaceBook etc, I am only interfacing with dozens per week and getting to know many more every day – do the math, it’s logarithmic – we’ll all get to know each other over time, but let us each pay what we can afford. I personally didn’t ‘give’ money because I simply couldn’t justify it. Yes, I was willing to lose my small investment, if things changed. Why? Because I grew up in a high risk environment where such things as domains could be stripped away (Au.. think the new great wall of China – yes, we’re having that argument again about censorship – how boring) this is nothing new and in fact I would say we are in-for-it in more countries than Australia.
Having said all that above, what, pray tell, is wrong with the world still, that we can’t have a truly stable and internationally organised market for domains of any extension after more than a decade? Are we all just partying too hard, or snobbing each other off too much?
Do we not meet enough with those in the official industry bodies? I don’t get that kind of info from ICA or anyone else, except maybe from a blog here or there. Understand what I’m saying?
I know for a fact when I’ve mentioned that I’m a “small domain owner” I get fewer or no replies from those I know in “the machinery”. “OH, good, then I don’t have to talk to you”.
IF – as a small player I could simply say “I’m with the ICA” I wouldn’t have to a) bullshit to get noticed, or b) get ignored for being someone with less than 100,000 domains.
No, it is the bigger players who do need to sponsor this. It is a new product, which they, LIKE ME are still negotiating (possibility-wise). It is also they who will, like me, lose again and again and domains will either take another 10yrs OR I’m not far from getting onto the next bandwagon which sees no DNS involved – god forbid, but ’tis possible unless those who have already made their big profits DO what’s required, not just for ‘us’ who have yet to reap substantial rewards from our stables of names and developments, but for themselves.
IF there is no profit at the top end – at least enough to fund a modest yet responsive legal office (including thousands of donations from casual domainers) then we do have a larger problem that even I would have guessed, sorry to say.
I do think there is some blame to lay at those already successful who don’t even drop a reply because they are too busy with whatever. Personally I try to answer every message, have attempted to connect to everybody in the domain space and have received a small return on that ‘investment’ of time and attitude. Thank you to all those big name domain owners who have made the effort to connect btw!
I believe we face more than just ICA funding difficulties. We face a situation where the populace just looks at us and says – “You know we don’t care”. And we do.
And I suppose we do all have some part in that, no matter how we each tried in certain ways. But apart from about a hundred domain folk in my FaceBook circle, I guess we, in general do not care.
So, back to the stock market?
** This is so low on people’s priority scale, they’d rather make donations towards the study of ants. ***
Classic 🙂
There are changes a coming .. And there won’t be much soon that the likes of the ICA are going to effect.
The Bottom Line, it’s not so much about the domains you own, it’s more about the property you’ve developed on those domains. If you’ve ongoing projects using decent domains, no one is going to question what you’ve created, or challenge your ownership either now or in the future..
ICANN will be launching many different extensions for the foreseeable future – it’s Yellow Pages. 40 years ago there were a handful of YP’s covering the UK, 30 years later there’s one for every county and major city. And it’s obviously going the same way for the internet – localization, and that requires more telephone numbers.
And if there was “massive” concern in the domain industry regarding the passing of bills and legislation which directly effect revenue. The likes of Sedo and SnapNames should try to contain their investments by funding people like the ICA!
Then again, it seems like “some” people in this industry don’t want to change things until it’s too late, which shows how important the industry really is to them.
most people are followers. Those people follow leaders. Kudos for being passionate about the ICA Mike. Until the sedos, oversees, all parking companies etc are proving that they are supporting the ICA then the small players will stay on the sidelines.
George Kirikos is always right. I’ll take counsel from him, yet MHB I can’t fathom that others don’t understand there really are “two sets of domainers”. Not literally on/off, but a substantial sliding scale re income/holdings.
Just want to add re Ron Jackson’s post – “I’ve yet to see any sign that, at the grass roots level, the vast majority of people in the business are going to doing anything to help protect themselves”.
Ron, that’s because the grass roots or my pet term casual domainers simply cannot involve themselves – either they cannot afford to attend any of the larger conferences or think themselves not worthy of reaching out (proven demonstrably in social networking circles over time etc) – they are deciding instead to put that expenditure into new domains.
There are millions of these grass roots people and a lower fee for entry into the ICA would solve a lot of dollar worries if they were sold in the right way. I know that for myself, I had to decide a few years back “will I join the ICA or renew my 3 reseller accts”. I now have one, but am considering another – and it would factor in.
Economy is down further now, so I can understand the grassroots are looking at the successful folk at conferences and thinking “you know what, all this is just a show, I’m dropping my garbage domains and not even trying to better my portfolio – in fact, I’m going back to the stock market where at least nobody questions my holdings”. etc.
“I know for a fact when I’ve mentioned that I’m a “small domain owner” I get fewer or no replies from those I know in “the machinery”.”
Hi, Ben!
Help me JOHN! 🙂
My ‘complaints’ are not huge – but I do think they may eclipse some others.
John, are you on FaceBook? It would be remiss of me to offer my friendship, only to be ignored sir. Seems there are other John Berryhills – which one do I choose?
You’d be a popular as all-get-out personage to proffer your services – and I’m thinking it’s all possible – far from the doom and gloom of my missives above.
I want to thank Mr.Beckwith for mentioning my polls at Namepros. I have tried to gauge the interest in the smaller domainer or what Ben would call the casual domainer.
I think there are many like Ben who if their domain portfolio went away due to changes in the industry they could handle that rather than putting out money each year to the ICA. Not saying that’s right, but think its true.
I think you do a great job Michael, much better than the ICA at getting the message out.
The ICA needs to be open.
What does Mr.Corwin each year in salary and expenses.
How much money for travel ?
How much money for an administrative assistant ?
Why is Go Daddy not a member of the ICA ?
Why are some very high profile domainers not members of the ICA ?
What can be done to get them to join ?
Someone needs to reach out on forums and at least make a post once in awhile. Update the casual domainer explain and get feedback why its important. This is a loosely held together industry. Someone needs to reach out and make everyone understand why they have a common interest.
I can say from threads on Namepros that the casual domainer, does not believe in the ICA.
I have said all along $20 membership, so you build #’s maybe $5 is too small but something that’s reasonable. $295 might not be a lot to the upper domainer, but if you go on DNF and Namepros and act like $295 is peanuts, I think the members will not agree.
I agree with everything.tv – well said and sums it up succinctly. And I’ll be sure to re-re-launch a blog from this starting point this week and keep a beam on this issue.
Cheers all, and btw I do wish us all well!
Everything:
“”The ICA needs to be open.””
I agree
What does Mr.Corwin each year in salary and expenses.
I have just seen the numbers for the first time myself and although its not my place to announce them, I will tell you that Mr. Corwin compensation does not seem out of line at all for a Washington Law Firm.
Travel expenses are related to going to ICANN shows which I think if the ICA can pull itself together it will no longer have the budget for.
I think the only other expense is an account to file the required tax return and organization returns for the non-profit.
Jeremiah At Sedo and several others do quite a bit of work without compensation from the ICA
“Why is Go Daddy not a member of the ICA ?””
Excellent point, if they can sped $3M on a superbowl ad they can give the ICA $100K
“”Why are some very high profile domainers not members of the ICA ?””
Again no excuse
“What can be done to get them to join ?””
You tell me
“”I have said all along $20 membership, so you build #’s maybe $5 is too small but something that’s reasonable. $295 might not be a lot to the upper domainer, but if you go on DNF and Namepros and act like $295 is peanuts, I think the members will not agree.””
Everything the space is too small 1,000 members at $20 is $20,000 a year.
Less than a drop in the bucket.
I’m still pointing at the HUNDREDS of people that spend THOUSANDS of dollars to attend trade shows who haven’t ponied up $295.
The top domainers make millions a year… Why can’t they just pay the $150,000 required to pay Mr. Corwin etc…..
Yes there are two sets of domainers..
How expensive are the hotels he stays at? Why does it have to be a 5 star Marriott. La Quinta anyone? 🙂
Thanks for the reply Michael, please I know $20,000 is nothing. I was using that level for the numbers part of the equation. The ICA could build up the membership. I know you still need the bigger dollars and the $20 memberships do not fix that.
Considering that almost everyone who is involved in managing ICA is a domainer, I was wondering why didn’t the directors take some of the donations that they received in the past 3 years to establish a portfolio of domains on behalf of ICA (a portfolio of decent domains that could be exemplary of how to monetize domains without resorting to typosquatting or TM infringement), this could have made ICA self supportive to some extent (off course this is assuming that this could be done for a nonprofit organization).
As far as there being two sets of domainers, any existing or new organization that wants to be successful at representing the domain industry should protect all domainers regardless of the size of their portfolio or the extensions that they might have. IMO
John
“”any existing or new organization that wants to be successful at representing the domain industry should protect all domainers regardless of the size of their portfolio or the extensions that they might have. “”
This is the case with the ICA and should be continuing with that group or whatever group maybe formed to protect domainers interest, large or small.
Of course such group will and can not protect clear typo trademark infringing domains.
“Of course such group will and can not protect clear typo trademark infringing domains.”
That’s why I said “ regardless of the SIZE of their portfolio and the EXTENSIONS that they might have” . I didn’t say regardless of the TYPE of domains that they might have.
“What does Mr.Corwin each year in salary and expenses.
I have just seen the numbers for the first time myself and although its not my place to announce them, I will tell you that Mr. Corwin compensation does not seem out of line at all for a Washington Law Firm. Travel expenses are related to going to ICANN shows which I think if the ICA can pull itself together it will no longer have the budget for. I think the only other expense is an account to file the required tax return and organization returns for the non-profit.”
and
“What can be done to get them to join ?”
Ok let me put on the fireproof suit here.
For me, I’d say start with a little more accountability and transparency perhaps. I haven’t supported the ICA because I don’t see much transparency. I see a lot of the sort of thing I expect from lobbyist (I worked for one so I know the drill) . . . “You are in danger you need to protect your interests” . . . of course we do, but what’s that going to cost over time. Lobbying is a moving target as there’s always something new that comes up to fight but it’s not a new industry so expenses could/should have been projected at the inception of the ICA. . . .
How much is this continued operation going to cost ? How do you sustain it if there’s a downturn in the economy ? How much did the original founders plan on the operation costing ?
I see that Phil has done some fighting, but I’d really like some specific bullet points on what it costs and what has been done. How about an annual report or some sort or yearly review ? Like a report saying “we spent X and we did Y with that money.” The state lobbyist I worked for was responsible for a monthyl newsletter indicating the progresses made, etc.
If the model can’t sustain from the current business plan/model and the current membership levels than maybe that does need to be rethought entirely or it simply isn’t a product that can pay for itself or that people want.
This association is like any product. Create a product that the people will pay for. . . Even if you think it’s a good “product” you may still have to actually do some selling . . . The current sell isn’t all that good with a lack of transparency, so I’m not buying yet. I certainly can be swayed . . . and certainly can toss in $295 but had I done it at the beginning I wouldn’t be pleased being left in the dark as you have with your much larger donation.
Just my 2 cents.
I paid my dues for the last 2 years and am up to date.
I agree there needs to be more transparency. Not on Phil’s part but the organization.
Not having Phil is not good. It is a full time job for an attorney and Phil is doing an excellent job.
Fellow domainers, do not drop the ball on this. There is ICA and there is all the people who want the domains that they claim are rightfully theirs even though you own them.
Have you tried herding cats/worms/rattle snakes/ scorpions ?
and after succeding asking them for money?
Domo Sapiens.
DNW did a post saying the ICA is done. There will be a new organization being put together by some big guys. Do you know about this Michael ?
John
I’m actively involved in getting the ICA reformed or reorganized with a more focused mission and membership