Alex Tajirian,a contributing writer to CircleId has written a post calling for the end of all domain auction sites and replacing them with a centralized clearing house for all expired or dropping domains.
The reason?
Simply Mr. Tajirian thinks the “Speculators” (that is you he is talking about) are getting too many of the good dropping domain names and businesses, SEO guys and end users can’t get them.
Who is Alex Tajirian you ask?
According to his Bio, he “launched the first domain-name secondary market in 1996.”
“He pioneered the development of a number of domain-name valuation models and estimation procedures using regression trees and has written extensively on domain-name acquisition and negotiation strategies, advertising and marketing, cybersquatting solutions, direct navigation, market structure, monetization, investment, and protection.”.
Mr. Tajirian writes:
“””We need to throw away the jumble of different auctions and dealer sites.”
“Speculators may not like having their haunts cleaned out, but corporate (end-user) buyers and investors will welcome the chance to deal with one centralized auction mechanism with one set of rules.””
“”Right now end-users wanting to buy domain names have no idea of what listing and bidding procedures they’ll find when they show up at a domain-name auction site. The sites don’t even use the same terminology.””
“”Instead we have a market dominated by speculators, fast operators who buy only so they can “flip”—that is, turn around and sell the name for a quick profit.”
“Thus, there is a need for the industry to move to a major centralized auction. Doing so will benefit society, end-users, investors, dealers, and consultants”
“Moreover, the industry can impose a speculation tax to deter such activity with secondary markets in IDNs and new TLDs. (A speculation tax was first proposed by James Tobin, a Nobel laureate economist, and is picking up steam among government officials in Britain).”
“A centralized auction mechanism could also be devised for expired-name auctions. ”
Now as far as I know there are four separate expired domain name drops a day.
Godaddy.com’s expired domains get auctioned off on its own site.
Some registrars such as Networksolutions.com and Enom.com drop their expired domains exclusively to NameJet.com.
Another group of registrars drop their domains exclusively to SnapNames.com and then all other registrars just drop their expired domains freely where they can be backordered also on Snapnames.com or NameJet.com.
So if you want to participate in the drops, you really have just 3 auction systems to deal with.
Mr. Tajirian arguments against the current system include:
“”Right now end-users wanting to buy domain names have no idea of what listing and bidding procedures they’ll find when they show up at a domain-name auction site.”
Mr. Tahirian your argument doesn’t hold water.
Each of these 3 sites have their terms and conditions clearly posted on their site.
Each of the 3 sites have a FAQ section and each have a customer support line where you can call, talk to a live person and ask questions.
Each of these sites makes it pretty clear how you can join an auction.
Each of these sites have a list of domains that will be dropping each day.
Each of the auctions have an easy way to search for the domains with the most backorders or bidders so anyone can quickly see which are arguably the best domains dropping. (NameJet.com lists them on the front of their site).
The auctions are opened to anyone.
Anyone can get an account.
Corporations, SEO guys, end users, everyone including “speculators” can participate in the drop auctions.
Put a tax on Speculators?
Who he calls “fast operators who buy only so they can “flip”—that is, turn around and sell the name for a quick profit.”
Really.
How about people like myself that buy domains to hold as long term investments.?
We have owned domains for over 10 years.
We have been in the business for over 10 years and have NEVER “flipped” a domain for a quick profit.
We only sell 200 or so domains a year out of 75,000 not exactley how you describe “Speculators” is it?
Couldn’t you describe the financial and stock markets the same way?
Speculators, in that case, are the stock traders who buy stocks, calls, puts, bonds and commodities in hopes of selling them at a profit one day.
Some people are look to hold positions for just minutes or hours, hoping to sell shares at a profit, they are called day traders.
Is there a tax on stock traders?
Is there a tax on day traders?
No
It makes no sense.
By the way not even investment leads to a profit, yes when you invest in anything be it stocks or domains you can lose money as well.
Finally I have a little secret for you Mr. Tajirian, there are plenty of end users, corporations, SEO guys participating in the drop auctions.
Yes they took the time to learn the rules.
They took the time to learn the “terminology” of the auctions.
They took the time to go through the drop lists to find domains they were interested in, took the time to get their backorders in and participate in the auctions and guess what?
A lot of these auctions are being won by end users, SEO guys and corporations, not just those nasty speculators.
A centralized drop auction center, sure there are some valid arguments to be made in favor of it, but you have not made any of them.
If you want the good domains your going to have to put in the time, do the work and put out the cash.
The market is open to you as well.
There’s a great word for what this joker suggests:
Monopoly.
Maybe he’s heard of it.
It won’t solve the problem since speculators will be able to bid even higher since they will be able to save a lot of time with a central system which translates into more money to spend on domains.
I didn’t realize how smart I am. I have easily figured out the bidding systems of ALL the drop sites. I’m changing my nickname to “RainMan”
Michael, if Alex’s latest article bothers you, don’t look into his achive over the past 10 years 🙂
As long as there is a market for making money on buying and reselling dropping domains, there will always be a marketplace to sell those domain names.
What you are suggesting, is one of the many fixes that people would want to build into a internet 2.0 if it were redesigned completely knowing what we know today, and how popular it would be to better safe guard many points of it. which will never happen.
Let’s take away car auctions too, because I’m losing sleep over the fact that car dealers make a profit on a used car.
Let’s take away “dealer” auctions in any industry… so that when a
“regular everyday Joe” needs to buy something, a retail price is out of the question.
I gotta tell ya, my sleep habits are just ruined over this…
We should get rid of Parking Companies too as they are like PIMPS.
At first they showered you with goodies and after they used you, they pay you like dirt$$$
Don’t be freaking lazy A-ss domainers, get your sites developed and F the parking pimps
I find endusers bidding everyday and many times winning.
Some major companies hire someone/broker to acquire a domain/domains for them.
I know of one large firm that has an inhouse person to acquire domains for them. I’m sure there are more firms that do that.
Alex is a very intelligent guy but many of his comments over the years have been 180 degree south of logic. (as Andrew suggested)
I gave up arguing with Alex a long time ago.
Incidently, maybe all of the major companies who issue stock shares should only offer them direct. And, if you want to sell them, you must sell them back to Google.
Then, I could get lucky and acquire Google shares for $ 50./share or less. But, maybe that will be what they are really worth. ??
Quote-
“We should get rid of Parking Companies too as they are like PIMPS.”
I’m sure the whole ppc category will be different 2 yrs from now.
There is a constant evolution. I’m sure many will disappear over the next 2 yrs.
Don’t you remember the banner farms?
Don’t you remember the original ppc pages?
A clear example that ppc industry is evolving – Parked pushing WhyPark.
And, we know that will look totally different 2 yrs from now.
Sounds like somebody doesn’t like capitalism or the free market.
Search for comments on Twitter about domain squatter/s.
Leonard, that does not make it creditable.
I bet if you search twitter for comments about Obama being the “anti-christ”, it would be overwhelming.
so this guy failed at domaining and he’s been at it since 96 and no one has ever heard of this clown.
CircleID sometimes has articles written by wannabe elitists… He got in early and didn’t make a huge personal fortune like many others. (from domain names obviously)
It’s disturbing that so many “writers” somehow find their way onto sites that carry a degree of weight. And personal bias too often gets disseminated to the masses as fact, ex. Tech Crunch, CircleID.
Even Google is now posting personal opinion blogs under their NEWS section. So, mass media go hunting for factual information and wind up quoting a blog authored by a highly biased individual.
There are only a small handful of current domain bloggers that have the neutrality and objectivity to offer quality information (or perspective) worthy of mass media quotation.
A similar illustration is the Wikipedia catastrophe, which I and others effectively confronted this year, in which “domaining” and “domainer” were being redirected to pages on cybersquatting. Need I say more? Two biased a**holes at Wikipedia (drunk with authority) were responsible for a terribly inaccurate & self-serving misrepresentation of an entire industry. It required enormous time to correct the damage done by them. When people have the blessing of a prominent public platform, with that comes great responsibility.
This idea has been tossed around in the domain name forums a bit.
The concept is not new and certainly not bad. I can see ICANN creating a cetralized processing center to consistenly handle domain names properly when it comes to deletion. However, instead of just dropping based on who can ping first, the best way is a slow and clear auction off process similar to now, where all profits will go to ICANN.
1. This makes sure the deletion process is handled correctly by a regulatory body.
2. This provides consistency.
3. This makes sure all domain names can fairly auctioned off instead hoarded by domain name registrars.
4. This helps provide more funding for ICANN.
5. This will reduce conflicts of interest (i.e. snapnames.com)
In the end, I can think of many reasons why to keep the system the same, but I can think more better reasons why to adapt to a system similar to that of the article as described above in my post.
…
Sorry
To be clear in my last line post = comment*
uh john doe.. ICANN does not need more money. Look at the salary they pay their CEO for example… $xxx,xxx . Look at all of the lavish trips they go on and do absolutely NOTHING. If they need more money why dont they give the .com contract to Godaddy for $2 a name and give ICANN $1 a name instead of 18 cents a name. $3 is still cheaper 🙂
Centralized auction house is essentially the same thing. Everyone would come from Snapnames and Namejet. Most probably place bids on both sites as it is.
One auction house? Fine. The fact is domainers (or speculators) will always have the advantage because we are always looking for any name that might sell, and we are looking at the names every day.
The end-users are only looking for a name when they need one. The chances that the name they want will appear exactly when they are looking are slim.
Honestly, companies routinely pay finders fees of several thousands of dollars and up. Forget the traffic and all the other metrics, a few grand for a finders fee is not outrageous in any business.
And if there were a one-stop auction house, I wouldn’t want it run by a guy who has been a “domain expert” for 14 years and is still just scraping by.
The current form of buying domain names, is a far cry from a unified free market system. The way some major appraisal sites caregorize and and price domains is an Industry weakness, that needs remedy. Of course this all makes sense for a select few players who take advantage of a market place pricing structure that is splintered and dysfunctional. This is why all the secondary marketers answer to selling domains is ” Do’nt price your domains too high ” Who does this strategy really serve??? You might argue Speculators of course! When in reality the end users greatest fear is that our industry will realize that our names are priceless one of a kind letter combinations.
Ten years from now when the new owners are mostly secondary marketers. Many of the names that have been acquired in these uncertain pricing platforms that are currently being shoved down all our throats. The secondary marketers new Mantra will change from ” Do’nt price your domains too high ” TO ” Do’nt price your domains too low ” Meanwhile the fleecing goes on and on and on.
Gratefully, Jeff
isn’t it all ready here? Open Domain Market!
As a capitalist, I am not in favor of any one marketplace for domain names.
However, it would be great to find out not just about drops but the fact if domain names are available for sale. I subscribe to several RSS feeds and emails from services on names for sale, though names have been sold and I didn’t either know they were for sale or how to get a hold of who was the seller.
For lack of a better, something like the real estate MLS system is what I am thinking of. Though I am well aware that not every property bought or sold is always listed on the MLS either.
So there may never be a perfect situation. But life isn’t perfect either.
Happy Merry!
mp/m
Mike
The other after markets to check include sedo.com and afternic.com.
While the industry has grown by leaps and bounds since 1996, Mr. Tajirian seems to have been stuck to the practices of that era. Not to mention that Tajirian.com aka Domainmart.com looks like it belongs to the early 90s as well.
Is Mr. Tajirian arguing over the single point of sale that he holds some secret patent on? Or is his post simply the rant of someone who does not approve of the lawful practices used by thousands of other domainers – collectively called “speculators” – in a manner condescending of other people’s success?
Alex is a nice guy, but from this post, extremely misguided and driven by a subjective goal. I’m sure my SEO buddies won’t like me saying this, but I’m tempted to cancel my CircleID subscription.
However, it’s always best to keep a close eye on those who would work to undermine your profits.
My message to Alex is: RESEARCH, RETHINK, RE-POST
I found other similar articles in marketing and business blogs around the globe. The term for domain investors in many of these articles was “cybersquatters”.
If I see another reference to legitimate domain investors as “cybersquatters”, I’m going to go ballistic. You don’t want to see that… or do you?
Alex Tajirian’s rhetoric is nothing more than his frustration on how he was in some kind of time warp and missed out on premium beach front real estate when it was looking him right in the face.
Like all that point the finger at everyone but themselves, he does not realize that sometimes a big waste plant, power plant or an oil slick ends up on or next to your beach front property – not to mention high taxation (Verisign is raising fees again in July). In others words there is risk in buying domains.
That is what is called free market capitalism and even protecting your property from eminent domain (i.e. UDRP) – if we keep pointing the finger at UDRP – we are no different than Alex Tajirian.
Policing your territory is a fundamental of free market capitalism – and if we do not police our land – we once again are no different than a coward like Alex Tajirian pointing the finger at everyone but himself.
Brian
CapitolHill
i’m glad i clicked over and read the actual article and proceeding comments there. If you read into the comments ‘Russ Smith’ hits every nail on the head and literally flattens every objection like a marksman shooting ducks in a barrel.
Yes – it all looks good (to the utterly naive and impressionable) when “every nail is hit on the head”…
A Thomas Jefferson quote that seems to be floating around quite a bit these days says it all here as well about a USA President that “hit every nail on the head”:
“A government big enough to give you everything you want (ICANN), is strong enough to take everything you have”
Brian
@Brian
“A government big enough to give you everything you want (ICANN), is strong enough to take everything you have”.
Perfect…
Pointless and with very wierd “logic”.
As long as top domain players got deals with registrars and registrars ties to ICANN, things will remain same.
And that oldschool c*ck that missed the train can’t change it.
Thanks to all for your input and thanks to TheDomains.com for cross-blog fertilization. Also thanks to Stephen Douglas for noting that I am a “nice guy,” but he forgot to mention that I am also schizophrenic. In this post I postulate that market forces will drive the number of auction websites competing in the online secondary market to one, while in http://bit.ly/6BDf50 I recommend increasing rivalry among independent auctioneers in live auctions.
Nonetheless, this post, among others, makes an important distinction between speculation and investment.
Searching the industry blogs that I follow, I was unable to find any recommendations to bring back competition to live auctions. Can someone refer me to such a blog discussion or to why having more than one live auctioneer is bad?
Alex
I’m not sure what you mean by bring back competition to live auctions?
I have no problem with competition your post seemed to argue against it wanting one central auction house or system for all expired domains.
So I’m confused
Hi Alex Tajirian,
I am tired of all these blogs trying to compete for more subscribers – don’t you think there should be just one blog (just klike one domain auction house) to go to so we are not wasting all our time sifting thru our own rhetoric and banter. I don’t have a blog – just like you do not have a large portfolio of .com’s – so it really does not mean that much to me if there is only one blog source – yes – I suppose the governemnt should run that blog as well – yes.
Brian
CapitolHill.com
“I am a “nice guy,” but he forgot to mention that I am also schizophrenic. ”
Was this meant as a joke? it sure doesn’t read that way What really makes me wonder how serious you were about that was that you suggested in a previous post the exact system whereby domains are sold off on expiration currently : http://www.domainmart.com/news/opinion-WLS_alt.htm Make up your mind.
btw, you have left out some facts in your recent “paper” on multiple live auctions, Alex. Aftermarket.com has conducted auctions with Moniker and Latona at TRAFFIC as well. . . TRAFFIC in Brooklyn 2008 had 3 auctions from the current live auction promoters. The results (link below) weren’t exactly stellar in comparing past results. : http://www.dmueller.com/2008/10/04/domain-names-domains/traffic-nyc-2008-domain-auction-results/
I’m surprised you gave this any space on your site Mike.
I never realized how difficult it was for some people to understand the concept of a simple auction. Obviously, we need to consolidate everything, incorporate government oversight and policy making panels and invest millions of tax payer’s dollars to educate the clueless. Lol. This is called business. If you can’t understand how 3 separate auction sites work in order to participate in said auctions, then you should get out of business.
CircleID has some annoying posters. I mean there are some smart people there who are choosing to make their “careers” in the “business” of “fighting spam” or “computer security”. It’s a little sad. a waste of intellect.
That is, their “careers” rely on other people’s ignorance and poor judgment/decision-making when it comes to computing. If most computer users were as knowledgeable as the CircleID crowd, then there would be no need to employ such “professionals” to assist with simple computing concepts.
Do these self-proclaimed crusaders want to *educate* as a means to solving these problems they claim to be trying to solve? Or are they vested in keeping users dumbed down? I wonder.
Would they want all users to know as much as they do about all manner of “inane” computing topics?
Do they presume to know what users want when users themselves do not even know what they want, because users are kept in the dark?
What if users put the IP’s of their favourite hosts (domains) in their HOSTS file, gave them aliases, and stopped using the “domain name system” constantly each day? What if they periodically obtained a signed copy of the root zone from its authoritative source, as every user is entitled to do under ICANN rules?
What if users made up their own nicknames (aliases) in their HOSTS file for the sites they visited (much like “bookmarks”), to save themselves from having to remember IP numbers?
Who knows? “Domaining” might come to a halt. But so might spam, malware and other internet malfeasance. Those “spam fighters” and “security consultants” might have to find something else to do.
But users will never do that, of course. A three column text file? Too complicated. Instead, we can just be spectators on CircleID and criticise and complain about what other people do. Boring.
CircleID is waste of brainpower. Stop the silly “articles” and start writing *tutorials*.
Let’s face the facts.
Much of the nonsense that bothers us all (domain hype, spam, security bugs, etc.) is borne out of people’s laziness, general ignorance and reluctance to accept the computer for what it is: an automaton.
It’s a machine, and nothing more.
It understands numbers, not words, mouse clicks, hand gestures, sounds or anything else that we’ve dreamed up. Numbers. And only numbers.
If people didn’t mind using numbers to communicate with their computers, there would be no need for domain names. This particular case is not so excruciating to fathom. An IP address is no longer than a phone number.
This is not the 1970’s. Users have lots of RAM and disk space to work with these days. Storing a great deal of routing information on a personal computer is not a major challenge. There is ample room for 100’s, 1000’s or even millions of stored IP’s.
But hey, that’s too radical. Too simple. Surely it must be more complex.
No matter how “human” you try to make the computer, there are only so many instructions one can give to these chips. There is no beloved “recursion” as in the coder’s mind. It’s all that ugly “GOTO” type flow every coder seeks to avoid.
Well, the abstraction layer does not change the underlying problem: the computer needs numbers. It all just becomes numbers eventually.
But I wonder. Do we really, truly want to solve these problems? Are we willing to work a little harder? Can we accept some tedium in the interests of stabilisation?
Or are we just typing out thoughts on forums, like I am doing here, and those complainers over at CirleID are doing with respect to “domainers”.
Maybe they’re just having fun with it. Trolling in the presence of “domainers”. Maybe they are playing to an audience. If so, pay no mind to my observations. I know some of them participate in other lists where they do not make the same sort of silly comments. They appear “child-like” when posting to CircleID however.
Recall before computers became ubiquitous, what did you do to check out a book from the library? You looked up a *number* in the a card catalog. There was no escaping it, you had to use that number if you wanted the correct book. That is the system the libraries used. It was based on numbers. It is just one of many systems that rely on numbers. Humans can handle numbers just fine.
It is no different here. Numbers are still mandatory for the system to work. If you want this name nonsense to stop, CircleID complainers, then you need to educate users about numbers. If you are just hoping to see others fail, then I guess just carry on, as passive commentators.
s/root/gTLD/