Dev Hub just shared with me the results of a three month test of 50 domains chosen by the client a domain name portfolio holder. As you can see from the chart’s below, over the three month test the domains that were previously just parked, went from making $63 a month to over $140 a month.
The 50 domains went from having no search traffic when they were parked to getting almost 3,000 visitors from search in the third month on Dev Hub platform.
So while some of the improvement in revenue can be attributed to additional traffic generated from search, Dev Hub was able to generate 58% of the revenue from sources other than parking.
Pretty impressive, especially when you consider the fact that only 1/2 of the domains in the test were .com’s.
This report comes at a time when the industry is looking for new and better ways to monetize domains.
It was just a little over a month ago that I was sitting on the TRAFFIC test track panel when Mark Michael one of the co-founders of Evo Media Group, the company behind the development platform,, Dev Hub appeared before us looking for an additional $1.5 Million of investment capital. Although I was quite impressed with Dev Hub system and Mr. Michael’s presentation, I couldn’t commit to that type of funding in the 15 minutes we had.
Looks like I made a bad decision.
Dev Hub did in fact secure the investment they were seeking after the show.
Here is the charts and relevant data for the case study:
Looks nice. Is Dev Hub alone in that market or is there any competitors ?
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Do you personally plan on trying out their services ?I think I’ll give it a shot with a few domains in 2010
On another note,
I’m not a pro when it comes to UDRP, but I have the feeling that having the risky domains in your portfolio developped is always better than simply having them parked.
JS
I’m not sure the look and feel of a Dev Hub page will give you any more protection from a UDRP.
There are competitors that being companies who blend PPC with other solutions, including Sendori
I think you should try many different providers until you find the one that works the best for you and fits your goals
It is nice to hear some good news about possible increase in revenue
instead of the present-day declining results.
You saved your self quite some money.
Team Micheal have burned through over 1 million already. They live a high life style in downtown Seattle, no bootstrapping for those boys. Expensive cigars, dinners out, its not their money they are spending. Be glad it is not your money.
Without REAL link building from legitimate websites, it won’t work.
If it really worked…..
Demand Media would be ALL over it.
These have guys with PHD’s working for them. No slick suits.
THINK ABOUT IT.
Rosenblatt is one of the best people in this space. If he isn’t doing it, it isn’t worth doing.
$63 from doing nothing to $140? Quality of the domains?
If it not YOUR 50 domains, how can you believe a brochure?
Give me 50 of your domains and I can do the same then give me $1.5 million. I will give you a real slick presentation too.
What makes this different from WhyPark ?
Hey “New” … I noticed everytime there’s some buzz about DevHub, you’re there pounding the comments with the same whiny talk about dinner and cigars. Got a personal beef you’d like to disclose?
The beauty of Devhub is it lets you create a real website that’s actually worthy of link-building (without wasting a week of your life on WordPress for Dummies.) Instead of dumping 50 domains into an account, try building out 2 or 3 of your best. Devhub lets you have a fully functional site in the time it takes you to read this. But use what it offers to inject a little soul for best results.
The problem is that once the platform gets enough traction the search engines will begin to remove the domains/sites from their listings as mass development sites are really the last thing they want in the results (see: AWS, Datafeed sites and all large parking platforms).
Naysayers & critics entertain themselves by putting down other people’s efforts. What’s worse is when they hide behind anonymity.
DevHub is an option. There is quite a lot of technology and user convenience built into their web development approach. If you look at DevHub as a next step in the evolution of easy site creation, then you have to be a fan, or at least respect what they’ve introduced. It’s not perfect, but there is value in what they have created. And if they keep refining DevHub, its potential and usefulness will only grow.
Someone smokes cigars & eat dinners out. Get over it.
I have been testing DevHub for the past few weeks with my FindJobs.com domain. Revenue is down 25% as compared to when I had it parked with DDC.com but I am willing to test it for 6 months with DevHub on the hopes that it will start getting search engine traffic. Right now it gets almost no search engine traffic.
Whypark is getting similar results, is cheaper (free to start), and much simpler to use. Looks like Parked.com got the jump first by acquiring WP earlier this year.
I’m making revenue on domains I moved to Whypark that were making absolutely ZERO when I was parking them. I am reviewing the revenue on all 3500 of my domains that are parked at several top PS’s. If the monthly stats say “zero” or less than 10 visitors a month, then I’m moving them to Whypark, writing a few custom content pages on each domain topic, and waiting for some OST love… which won’t be given EVER by the SE’s if you have your domain on a landing page. So why waste time on a PS with your domain, especially if it’s a non.com? Get that baby into the SE systems quick by using a content development service such as Whypark or Devhub.
Congrats to Devhub, too. The future is “domain viability” based the value of its site content and monetization paths now… since most the one-word naturals are financially out of reach for the mainstream. Of course, for domain flippers, Whypark is a dream, because end users love seeing content and a site on a domain they want to purchase.
Congrats to devhub, they are doing things right but you have to admit this report on 50 domains is certainly not a statistically significant sample AND it is not independent so it really can’t be reported as a news story.
This report should have a “results may vary” disclaimer on it otherwise it’s pretty misleading.
Stephen, thanks for your feedback on WhyPark.
I haven’t heard a lot of comments about WhyPark on the mainstream blogs.
I’ve avoided using them but maybe it is time to stick my toe in the water.
All of us have those domains that get a number of hits but produce zero revenue which has been very frustating.
I think you guys need to take this for what it is, which is a case study of 50 domains over 3 months which shows search engine traffic and revenue increasing.
Will it work for every domain, every time, logic would dictate no.
But we have to start looking at options other than PPC as that we know has been failing for well over a year and this is an option.
Yes there are other options as well and people should test them all.
What will happen to this set of domains in 3 more months?
I don’t know but I have been promised an update
It would be nice to see what 50 domains they chose so we could to do some 3rd party research. Also, how much time and effort was put into those compared to the average user? My guess would be significantly more.
Quote –
“What will happen to this set of domains in 3 more months?”
That is the big question.
We all know that any website must continously be updated to maintain its SE position.
With PPC, you don’t need to constantly tweak the website.
With the semi-developed sites, you need to be doing something to fool the SE that the site is relevent so you maintain some kind of listing in the searches.
@News — this is for you.
The comment about DevHub is inclined to waste money is complete horseshit. I invite you to visit their offices and you will see first-hand that this is a company that watches every dollar. They are keenly aware that we are operating in an environment where cash is king and where domainers are paying attention to every penny of revenue-share from domain monetization. The current economic climate is not one that rewards waste. To the contrary.
During 2009, DevHub made the transition from being a money-losing development stage company to being a profitable company with a steep growth trajectory. I personally wrote many of the checks that kept the company on track during 2008 and 2009. I know first-hand how this money was spent. As a Director on the board, and a significant shareholder, I can also tell you that Geoff Nuval is watching the pennies.
Yes, Mark Michael likes cigars. I think that is the only factually accurate point you made. I hope that DevHub is wildly successful so that Mark can indulge is interest in cigars for many years to come. It will be well-deserved. The Founders — Dan Rust, Mark Michael and Geoff Nuval — have done a tremendous job and I could not be more proud of them. The groundwork has been laid for a great outcome here.
I have been on the WhyPark platform for 9 months and have seen outstanding results. Looking forward to their future roll outs as well.
DevHub.com is a publishing platform and monetization platform in one. We bring together all the major ways to make money on the Internet, and make it easy to build a site and/or blog so that you as a publisher can focus on content and create a destination that is valuable to the end-user. Publishers who have have this focus as they build sites add value to the Internet, and are rewarded by search engines as they realize true organic growth — a mark of value retention. This means no longer looking for quick fixes for an entire portfolio, but rather building sustainable media properties that can be leveraged within a network. Domain portfolio owners have the opportunity to focus on developing sites that matter and we hope to encourage this movement. We are dedicated to providing tools and a system for those that have expanded their vision and are willing to succeed in a rapidly evolving playing field. Thank you all for your support and enthusiasm thus far to get us to this point. More to come very soon!!!
—DevHub team
It’s a slick system. I started testing DevHub on a set of about 20 domains back last March 2009 and it took some months to get indexing but they are now making more than they did in parking. However, I will say they seemed to have topped out temporarily in gaining traffic. Without more effort on my part, or some kind of extra rise in the engines, which probably won’t happen without some more updating and/or content, then the income may have topped out. It does beat the parking income handily though. It seems to be hit-and-miss as to whether you are able to rank high, but it only takes a few domains with a good PPC to hit page one to start making some money.
Regarding WhyPark, same result overall……hit-and-miss. Again though, if you add up the sum it beats parking.
This all took months to happen btw. It’s easy to become discouraged at month five when Google still has not shown you any love, but just like magic many of them got indexed within about a two to three week window and my traffic skyrocketed.
WhyPark – as mentioned; hit or miss. Initially pretty successful, and then Google de-indexed a lot of pages. Oddly, after three or four months, some actually came back, and it’s back doing a little better now. I believe G probably targets nameservers to some degree, and seeing a whole boatload of pages show up from one set of servers probably set off an alarm bell somewhere.
DevHub – had them develop one site for me. Earnings haven’t really paid off, but it’s made more than it did parked or at WhyPark. Over time it maybe pay off, specially since I used the site as a template to make a couple more. What has impressed me most is that my DevHub sites went almost immediately to the first page of G/Y/B SERPS and stayed there – for a pretty darn competitive search term. Whether this sticks around after the Caffeine update and with Google’s new default personalization is anyone’s guess.
I’d put more domains into DevHub if they made it a little easier to develop, say, a template, and then apply it multiple domains. This is where WhyPark has an advantage. If I have domains for 30 cities for some type of service directory, then I want to use DevHub because of the local listings – but I don’t necessarily want to spend the time to develop the template 30 times over.
First I have to say I love Rob’s reply above! I agree 100%.
To the question: Are other companies doing this? “Yes” and getting great results as well. Parking is toast unless the powers that be do something drastic to open up the format etc…
I think this is a very typical result for such development. To Eric Borgos just give it some time you will see the results soon when indexing kicks in…
Domainers have several options for custom build outs… I am part of DevRich.com so I am bias to our solution. That said it is no secret that our types of solutions are the way of the future. Here is a short list of mass domain development providers and a long list can be found at Domaining.com
DevRich.com
DevHub.com
Epik.com
That’s my 2 Cents…
Regards;
Luke Webster
Regards;
Luke Webster
The complaints on regards to the “delisting” by Google of whypark pages are becoming more frequent near deafening.
IMO anything made using cookie-cutters / Minisites and or sharing some of the bulk elements such as DNS/template/affiliation code etc etc is going to be detected by the algorithm and punsihed accordingly , the Algo is becoming smarter and smarter , to the delight of real developers as it should be , the whole idea about Google is the relevancy and quality of the results… there is a lot at stake .
There is nothing new under the Sun.
@Domo,
Let’s see a few links where your claim of Google “delisting Whypark pages are … more frequent near deafening” can be reasonably agreed with. “Near deafening”? Really? Show us.
Do you know what happens when your domain name and website gets “delisted” by Google? Do you get an email from Google saying “Yo, your website was delisted. Seeya don’t want to beeya!”???
Why don’t you give your professional explanation for someone to know if their site was delisted by Google.
1) Can you describe what “delisting” is, specifically?
2) How do YOU determine if your site was delisted by Google?
3) How do you determine what factors facilitated the delisting?
Looking forward to your expert definition of “delisting” to back up your claim re: Whypark.
Do I need to copy entire threads from the parked/why park forum?
Where you even have adressed the problem…
Domo
Example from WP forum :
Hi – I am interested in knowing what is whypark doing to counter Google deindexing the whypark websites. I have paid account on whypark. My dozens of websites have been deindexed. Any help?
Thanks in advance.
It’s amusing watching the “new platforms” getting defensive regarding search engine listings. If you guys had done some due diligence to look at history regarding any automated or cookie cutter solution you’d have realized what was going to happen.
As bad as it is, parking is still a better option and takes much less time to manage.
It’s like watching the .mobi fanatics that invested way too much defending their position on how .mobi is the next big thing to the very end.
@Bryan
I don’t work for Whypark. I’m not being defensive. Just asking questions from people who have seemingly something to gain from content development sites to fail. You talk about “parking” being a “better option” – and you don’t even realize that you just defined the biggest losing COOKIE CUTTER SOLUTION there is for a domainer. It’s no secret that PPC payouts have dropped more than 60% in the last two years. If you have domains that aren’t performing on PPC, you still going to leave them there? Or why don’t you flip them for cheap? Send me your list if they’re generic descriptive, less than three words and less than 16 characters. I’ll take them off your hands since you’re losing money on them at a parking site.
@ Domo – nope, I don’t need “anonymous” threads from WP forum, I’ve seen those since 2008… You said this problem was “deafening”. Are you just talking about the anonymous posters on Whypark who may just want to diminish the value of WP’s services? Where else do you hear this “deafening” cry of WP websites being delisted?
My simple questions to you were WHAT ARE YOUR descriptions of how you know your site is LISTED on google, and when it is DELISTED. What’s the “alert” or “warning” or “sorry” or method you understand for the LISTED and UNLISTED process on Google?
Waiting for your informative response so all the readers here can understand and know when that exciting/devastating moment comes in their website’s listing experience at Google.
thanks
@Stephen
I don’t disagree with your point regarding parking. That is the sad thing about all of these platforms. They don’t consistently exceed parking. Add to that they take more time to setup and manage and you have a losing proposition. I don’t know about you but the most valuable thing I have is time. (which is why this will be my last comment on this topic so you are welcome to the last word) 🙂
I honestly have no interest in parking or flipping. I don’t ever consider parking revenue in my decision to buy a domain. I just find this topic interesting along the same lines as the .mobi “phenomenon”. The writing was on the wall before it ever began and a lot of people invested a load of time and money without doing enough due diligence.
These “sites” are not any stickier than a parking page when you really get down to it. Unless these platforms get and keep search engine rankings they aren’t going to add any value. History has shown they will not keep search engine rankings. It’s simply not what the SEs want in their indexes and it will eventually get removed.
Argue the point all you like but your going to end up on the same side as .mobi owners.
See: Amazon feed sites, data feed sites, parking, BANS or any other automated or semi-automated solution.
Stephen,
You are far more knowledgeable about whypark than me and many other domainers.
However, it is logitical that Google would recognize domains using whypark dns, same block of ip numbers, same layout, same style of wording and the same java as other sites and they would ban them.
They quickly realize the sites are in the same category as MFA. (made for adsense)
That is the same problem smartname and other cookie cutter companies have. Google penalizes them.
We are guilty by association.
As I understand it, they apply a number/grade to the site.
If it is clearly a cookie cutter site, they give it a zero.
If you have unique and frequent postings, they give you a higher grade.
If there was a way of doing it on your own server with your own dns, it would buy us some time until we can move on to the next level of development. But, that is not the present option.
Why do we think we are smarter than Google and Google management and programmers?
my 2 cents:
True words.
Plenty more( circa 2010)
http://www.namepros. com/parking-and-traffic-monetization/649549-getting-deindexed-in-g.html
http://www.namepros. com/607113-whypark-5.html
*****************
Stephen:
BTW I read your nearly euphoric review on whypark.com and realize you are an affiliate of them (via the subliminal links to WP plastered in the article) , you should at least disclose that .
Funny nobody really talks about how much money they make using these type of services (not just WP) nor the ROI never mind the man/hours spent …
The traffic thing it’s almost funny, most of these domain are really crappie to begin with (No direct Nav traffic) when people claim to have a great increase on traffic (from 0 to X ) they forget that SE ‘ Bots are doing their work , and most likely that accounts for the majority of the counts…
And it’s not just WP is the whole “Mini CookieCutter Crappie Sites” approach …
Cheers
Domo.
@ Bryan
Dang. I don’t want to have the last word in this respect. I understand your concerns, but I know more about the internal growth and the solutions to make Whypark sites SE friendly — without a doubt it depends on newly changing original or even adfeed content. (If that wasn’t true, then CNN.com and Foxnews.com and other sites getting syndicated news info would be delisted. It’s the “customization’ and addition of new content, along with syndicated or even identical content that makes the site live in the SE world. I agree that a lot of people just put their domains at WP and expect magic to occur, without any further focus on them. That rarely, if ever works. But the competitor argument is always that Whypark seems to exist in this “vacuum” of only being a service that gives you pablum content, too bad, no “original” content possible. That’s just not true, and most good Whypark users know this, including myself.
@ 2 Cents
Your points are similar to Bryan’s so my answer is about the same for you here. However, when solutions such as DNS and IP locations of servers are the only answer to “getting Google to like you”, it’s a simple investment and growth equation of acquiring 1000 other virtual or standalone servers to resolve that issue.
As I pointed out above, you always need regular original content, backlinking to relevant sites that rate on the SE’s, and customized websites with lots of content to keep your “head above water” with any SE, especially Google.
What’s funny is that I’m not an SEO expert in any sense of the word. I depend on guys like Ben Herman of Madfish.info and Todd Mintz of SEMPDX.org for the real expertise. However, I do understand the “basics”, and that as mainly a domain flipper, parking a longtail at a PPC landing page gets me nothing, where I’ve increased the revenue from 250 non-performing domains out of 3500 of my domains are now making money, and getting better “eyeballs” on those sites than before. My domains fall into the 80-20 rule for PPC. I own domains that are clear product descriptive domains, yet get little typeins. I build out a little site on Whypark, add a custom page with 150 words of original content, and I start getting renewal rev. That’s all I care about until I flip the domain.
Whypark’s features allow me to do this for free. If I wanted more assistance, it’s fairly inexpensive to get it. So I’m very happy about my experience at Whypark, at least compared to what options were available to me before.
thx
Actually, I’ve been the one talking about WhyPark sites being penalized for some time now, and I’m neither anonymous nor ignorant about search engines. (Don’t believe it? Google me.) All the protestations in the world will not hide the fact that WhyPark sites are tossing up some kind of a profile that is now *penalized* by Google, in Google Webmaster Tools. It’s not all WhyPark sites yet. It’s not JUST sites with syndicated content. I have around 800 of my own examples, and I can point you to several thousand more. Google tightened something up in the past 60 days, and my information (from people who are definitely in a position to know) is that it’s going to get even tighter this year. If your WhyPark site is still indexed and getting traffic – good on you. But you better have a plan B. And I most certainly would stick with their feed and not AdSense. Because the specific message about these sites, in Google Webmaster Tools, is that they violate Webmaster Guidelines. And it is now an AdSense *requirement* that sites are in compliance with Webmaster Guidelines.
And I have yet to see a single WhyPark site indexed in Bing. I know Craig says that they’ve been spidering heavily lately – but I still haven’t seen a single one, in almost a year. Some friends had a couple sites go in, and then come right back out. And once Bing starts providing SERPS for Yahoo, unless something changes, that will pretty much rule out all three major search engines.
I have no ax to grind with WhyPark. I like Craig, and admire the platform he built. I even still have some domains there, because I just like the look of them. But I’m not blind and I’m not going to minimize or downplay the risks. My *only* issue is that people need to be very aware before they put their domains in. Because once your domain has been penalized, it pretty much has to either change hands or be fully developed before you can ask for reconsideration to have it indexed again.
If Google SERPS don’t matter to you, then it’s not an issue. If they do, then go into it with your eyes open.
@Netmeg
Yes, I know you and have read your comments dating back two years about Whypark. You’re also a website developer. You know a lot about Google, which means you know a lot about nothing. No disrespect in that statement, Netmeg, just the facts you and I both know — Google can’t be pinpointed or delineated to obtain perfection in listings, indexing or whatever you want them to do. They change it up monthly. You can build a career “thinking” you know something about google and find out that a few months later, you know nothing but the basics that apply to all SE’s.
Whypark for me is better than landing pages. If you want to build out a site to a huge working and indexed site using Whypark, YOU CAN DO THIS. It’s being done, it’s been done. But it’s no different than any other content developer site EXCEPT you can do so much more with WhyPark FOR FREE, and it’s the perfect answer for longtail and ccTLD domain owners who don’t get typeins, but want to represent their domain to the user as something other than a PPC landing page. PERIOD.
Any other arguments about Google indexing and magical top 10 placement of Whypark domains isn’t my intention, not has it ever been. Domains that I owned that NEVER were indexed by Google when I parked them for 8 years don’t cry about it if they don’t get indexed now, but they do happily accept the new users and email requests to buy them AND the site content I have on my domains parked at Whypark. That’s the OPTION for domain owners that talented website developers like yourself don’t address. You’re worried about Whypark stating they can seemingly creating new fantastic sites through their system, but they don’t do that. You miss the whole purpose of Whypark’s importance for domain owners who have domains that get no typein traffic, but want to build out their sites to look customized in order to sell the domains, and possibly get some SE indexing and PPC income.
I’ve already proven this to myself that this works at Whypark. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t be bothering to write anything here. For me WhyPark is an essential part of my domain monetization strategy because it does exactly what I want it to do – plus Craig Rowe is a genius who will keep adding new features to make domain investors excited.
I hope you understand that I’m coming from a totally different “value” direction than you are discussing, and I give you all the credit due for your ongoing knowledge of Google. You’re probably one of the top 10 people I’ve seen write about Google who knows what they’re talking about – except that only is good for about 60 days, tops. You work hard!
😉
peace
Actually, I’m not a website developer; haven’t been for years. My focus is more on the marketing side. I would venture to say as little as you think I know about Google, you know less about me.
Since the discussion seems to have veered around to Google deindexing WhyPark sites, and since above you implied that it wasn’t happening, and was just being reported by “anonymous” people who have some interest in seeing the platform fail, I find your most recent comment somewhat puzzling. Unfortunately I don’t have time to pick it apart point by point at the moment.
The bottom line is, whether or not YOU are concerned about your WhyPark sites, and whether or not YOU are concerned about Google indexing these sites, other people are. I would even venture to say that MOST WhyPark users are. That’s not going to change, no matter what spin you want to put on it. I don’t claim to know everything that Google does. All of our evidence is anecdotal compared to the amount of data that Google has. But after years and years of watching closely and *paying attention*, not to mention learning everything I can from people who know better than I, I can tell you that it’s not nearly as much of a mystery as you seem to think. Google doesn’t want hundreds of sites with the same syndicated articles in the index, and they don’t want hundreds of sites with thin semi-unique articles either, unless you’re partnering with them for big bucks (a la Demand Media)
And the FACT is that Google made a change, this year, and WP sites fell smack in the middle of that target.
You want to gloss over that, go ahead. But I’m going to keep pointing out the risks as I see them. People need to be able to make INFORMED choices.
I can hardly wait till my post on The Myth of the Minisite is ready for publication.
@DOMO and @ Netmeg,
You guys didn’t fully read my comments. I’m saying for the domains I have in my portfolio, that don’t perform at PPC, WHYPARK IS PERFECT. Why? Because Whypark allows me to do what I want to put whatever customization on my domains that I want and to MOST IMPORTANTLY, keep the sites from looking like a standing PPC landing page. This is extremely important for domain flippers.
Netmeg, 800 examples of “delistings” on Whypark? So how did you get notified of this? Do you have a magic data tool that can instantly check for Google listings and delistings? You said you could show “thousands more”. That’s amazing. What’s your process for finding out so many delisted sites?
Domo, most people in the domain industry or most readers here should, or do, know that I was an executive at WP last year and so me repeating my “affiliation” every time I posted about Whypark would be accessive, don’t you think? And you can ask anyone to reveal their revenues, but most everyone would not tell you unless you were interested and able to buy their domain.
Netmeg, I can’t discuss Google as an expert, you’re an expert from what I’ve read from your writings over the last two years, which almost always included the word “google” in your comments. So you have the last word here — except it’s MOOT for Whypark users who follow my same strategy with their domains — And that strategy is, again:
1) Parked domains NEVER get indexed, never will. If your domain is parked and it’s not a typein performer, then you don’t want it sitting there without content, without the smallest CHANCE to be indexed, and making no revenue while looking exactly like a million other landing pages. Whypark fixes that problem, and you can do it for free. It works for me, and I’m constantly moving domains to Whypark, but one by one, writing a few customs pages for each.
2) Whypark allows me to present my site usefully to a user to find relevant information. I own “Digital Mammogram dotcom” and it’s at least set up on Whypark to show an interested party that it’s a relevant site with plenty of original articles covering this new technology. Cost to me? Nothing. Does it look better than a landing page? Of course.
That’s my point again — if you want to build out a killer domain name (“natural”), then nobody at WhyPark says “you need us”. We all know there is NO magic bullet for creating websites that make Google happy. If there was, SEO services would be — well, “delisted”.
However, there is a “magic bullet” (WhyPark) that makes large portfolio holders with keyword longtail domains happy by giving them a “nice home” and a potential to make revenue, whereas parking them would never provide that opportunity.
Thank you, and good night all for this subject!
It’s called Google Webmaster Tools. You should look into it.
@ Netmeg,
😉
Perfect. You said it. Thanks for informing the uninformed. Keep up the good work.
great point made