After the live domain auctions we always publish the results and we always get comments along the lines of “what a great deal” that was or “that domain was a steal”.
So after reading such comments on my blog and other the question I have for you guys is if the domain was such a great deal why didn’t you buy it?
Certainly the live domain auctions are well publicized, in advance.
I understand not everyone who reads this blog can afford a domain like shows.com into the six figures, but see that it was a good buy. The issue I have is with people who talk about domains like BreakfastBars.com being a steal at $1,300.
Maybe it was a steal, but if you thought, so why didn’t you bid on it?
I know you all don’t have $100K+ to spend on one domain, but you certainly have $1,500.
Personally I wasn’t real happy that one reader told me what a steal one of the domains I sold was, steakknives .com at $18K, especially after I got a notice from Moniker.com yesterday, telling me they sold the domain, under the reserve of $20K, including commission, and I would have to eat the difference.
Next week the silent auction for TRAFFIC will end, after which we will publish the list of all the domains that sold, and we will get the comments again, of what a great buy this one was and what a steal that one was.
So why don’t you take a couple of hours and go through the complete auction list or our selections from it and actually get one of these “steals” for yourself.
Many times we know a deal when we see it. But, not everyone has the money or interest in buying it today.
If I saw a 2009 corvette for sale for $ 29K, I know that is a deal but I’m not ready to buy it. I might have different priorities.
But, I still know it is a deal.
However, there is a problem that many domainers are sitting on the sideline for no logical reason.
And, next year we will hear what we heard 5 yrs ago –
“I could have bought ??.com for 1/10th of what it sold for today.”
The smart money is still quietly buying.
Talk is sooo cheap. People think there’s a better deal right around the corner, plus names like BreakfastBars.com just wouldn’t “call” to most domainers. Hoping for the 5K+ end-user sale for their own names maybe… that’s why “it went cheap”. Statements like that are just based in fantasy.
Curious, why was steakknives sold below the reserve? Did they do that per the terms of the agreement? Does the agreement, in other words, give them permission to sell below the reserve, if the difference is relatively small? At the end of the day, what matters is your ROI. If you bought it for, say, $3k you made a nice chunk. If you bought it for $15k you made a thin profit. About the subject of your post, a lot of people do window shopping with domains 😀
There are good deals to be had every single day. For example, I got a name yesterday for $20 that estibot values at $27K. I know you get plenty of these also. Domainer auctions are not a good place to get deals because of the intense competition and deep pockets. This is the same reason I stay away from Namejet for the most part.
I specifically have pointed out the bargains at RickL’s auction because I didn’t expect deals of that caliber at Traffic. It was noteworthy. However, I don’t believe there were any “steals” in Moniker’s live auction. SteakKnives.com is a fantastic domain but $18K is pretty fair value for it, IMHO.
After seeing these results, I will be prepared next time.
Tony
There are a lot of good values in the silent auction, with over 5,000 domains many can get lost.
Check out our post for some good ones.
Acro
I think although not in the contract, moniker takes it upon itself to sell domains close to reserve rather than let it pass.
We see this all the time, a name priced at $100K and gets to $85K and we all ask why didn’t the guy take the $85K?
So Moniker.com started this a couple of auctions back and although I’m not thrilled with the reduced reserve, I’d rather take a little less and see the domain sold.
Our cost was pretty low on it.
Here is the e-mail I got from Moniker.com:
Hello,
“””At auction when we get into the “paint” on prices and know that they will not go any higher, we do act on behalf of the seller and do sell the domain when it’s between your net take home and our commission reserve price. Our customers appreciate this and allow us this flexibility and would rather see a sale rather than a pass so we sell it. We do appreciate your support of this process and request that we also receive our full commission based on the actual sale price since it was within that range.
We will be sending you out agreements based on the actual sale prices above with our commissions taken from those prices.
Thank you for your support of the auction and in making T.R.A.F.F.I.C Silicon Valley 2009 a successful event! “””
Mike,
I was the one that said steakknives.com was a steal at 18k (no problem with you busting my chops for comments). We bring names up for auction all the time – some go much higher than expected, some go, some die to live another another – just part of the buying / selling process which you certainly know.
My point which I continue to harp on over and over – whether its steakknives.com or homeloans.net – is to try and connect with domainers who actually understand development which seem to be fewer and fewer as we move along in this industry.
Names like steakknives.com, homeloans.net – these are category and product defining names. Names that have brand appeal, industry reach, SEO magic, instant credibility – on and on and on.
You made an interesting comment “I know you all don’t have $100K+ to spend on one domain, but you certainly have $1,500”
That is where my math is always coming in to play to try understand the logic behind people. Dropping $1,500 – $2,000 or $3,000 on shitty names, names that have no value to end users or SEO value – nothing but age and maybe a few backlinks (which is a gamble in itself for the people bidding purely based on PPC traffic revenue) happens every day.
SOOO many people out there are spending lots of $$ on drops only to build inventories of domains which really have little value, no traffic and make absoltely no sense to end users. Now you put a name like the two mentioned above up for auction and there is not as much interest? Why – is it because another domainer owns it? Is it because 99% of people still buy for trafic only? Is it because 95% of domainers do not understand development? Have no idea but names like this should go higher and I have no answer.
One of my replies to a comment on the homeloans.net rant I posted was
“Remember, this sport has many teams. While many domainers were “domaining” back in 2002 there was a whole other team of people developing”
So in addition to endusers there is an entire group of people who were developing when Frank, Kevin and yourself were buying domains. I know because I was one of them so it strikes me as even odder that these people, these SEO wizards, these guys and girls are not bidding on names like this so is there a disconnect somewhere in either (a) the overload of auctions happening (b) marketing of domains (c) and “domainers” understanding of whats a good name.
Seems like a name registered in 1996 (no matter how dumb the name is) is worth more than a 2 word SEO rich domain registered last year.
Seriously, makes no sense.
I’m confused as much as anyone trying to find logic with prices in this industry. I do know anything under $5,000 never seems to be complained about – go over $10k and people say what a deal or I can’t believe somebody would pay that much. Is that extra 5k at all relevant when we are talking about a one time cost to own a domain name for life?
So in addition to our valuation methods to determine whether it’s a good deal or not we also look at the money spent – and there is lots of it as you well know but it seems like people would rather spend $18k on 18 useless names on NameJet then actually spend the money in one buy on names like steakknives.com
There is little logic in this industry but as acro said – for a seller, its all about ROI since the day of logic is not going to come any day soon.
I have to wonder then, if they did that to you, why are you pushing their extended inventory so much?
Mike
Like I said I’m not thrilled they took less, but all and all I’m glad they sold it for us even at the reduced price.
I think its important that these domain industry auctions are successful.
Regarding that notice from Moniker about selling the domain under the reserve.
BULL CRAP.
Unless there is some fine print in the contract, I don’t see how you are obligated to sell the domain and you are CERTAINLY not obligated to pay Moniker the full commission. If they can force you to take less without your permission you can force them to take less of a commission. If you allow them to cut your price yet they get full commission then they have every incentive to continue this unethical and possibly even illegal process of selling domains under the reserve.
Funny that you have to take a cut out of your price but they don’t?
“We do appreciate your support of this process and request that we also receive our full commission based on the actual sale price since it was within that range.”
BULL.
If they want to get your permission to offer it to the highest bidder at a reduced price AND you agree to give them full commission, that is 100% YOUR decision and no one else’s decision.
Again, unless there is some fine print or a handshake agreement for Moniker to make a sales decision on your behalf, they have NO authority to sell the domain for any less than the reserve and that type of behavior could lead to having their auctioneer’s license in California pulled because of such behavior.
While I’m commenting on the Moniker auction I would also like to publicly say that the behavior of the Moniker auction helper who was VERY intimidating to Divyank during the Ad.com bidding was repulsive to me and he should be fired.
Also, Moniker should publicly apologize to Divyank for that person’s unprofessional behavior and make sure that something like that never happens again.
MHB – we got the same later and it was only about a $300 difference between our submitted reserve and the ending. Much rather see a sale that was close than none at all.
Sorry to get off topic but watch this Moniker auction helper’s repulsive behavior here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVZuQiYCpAo
Watch his behavior when the bid reaches $800k. VERY unprofessional.
Anybody know the name of this guy?
“Unless there is some fine print in the contract, I don’t see how you are obligated to sell the domain and you are CERTAINLY not obligated to pay Moniker the full commission. If they can force you to take less without your permission you can force them to take less of a commission”
I’ve gotten this before, too. The way I read it is some what of a threat. Yes, they’ll eat the difference if they have to in their commission, but you may not have your domains selected for future auctions.
With Bido, namedrive, sedo, afternic, Latona, Aftermarket and snapnames as viable alternatives for domain auctions, I’m not sure Moniker has a lock on domain auctions.
Rob
Firstly I have now watched the video 3x solely because of your comments (didn’t watch it before) & I have no idea of what your talking about.
The caller sat in the seat in front of Div, giving him his full attention. I’ve had callers do that to me for a much lower priced domains. If your talking about encouraging bidding, I have no problem with that, its what makes a good auctioneer and team. Otherwise any fool can sit up there and in a monotone fashion ask for bids and have a guy in a suit point.
This auctioneer and his team, built excitement, energy and wound up getting a great price for a great domain.
This is their job and they did it well.
Secondly, I have seen people run up to the podium during an auction yelling at Monte to “take the bid”, “take the bid”, when the highest bid was just short of the reserve. So although (and I think I’ve said 5 times now), while I’m not thrilled, at the slight miss, I rather the domain sold then have it just miss and go home with no money.
Thirdly, None of the other services except for Rick Latona that you mentioned, run a live auction, with a live auctioneer, so you can’t compare them. They are all online auctions, computerized and if the minimum is not, hit the computer can’t and won’t accept a lower bid. How many people would be happy selling a domain for $19K that was priced at $20K vs having the auctioneer passing on the lot, I don’t know, but for me its OK.
Finally, I have much less of a problem with running the auction this way, then Rick Latona did at the end of his auction, calling domains back up with reserves reduced suddenly by 40% (and still not selling).
I had a similar situation with moniker in an online auction last year where they sold a domain below what my reserve was. They sold the name at a level where I would still receive the net of my agreed reserve. I was not aware they would be doing this and it left a bad impression of their services, needless to say I did not agree to cover the full 15% commission and they ended up eating this on their net commission, despite multiple emails asking me to reconsider and pay them a full comission. This appears to be a gray area in their contract and if you are wavering on listing a domain for sale, something to consider if you are using them…for most domain sellers I imagine their is plenty of built in profit margin, so they are probably ok with getting the name sold…
I would like to comment on few assumptions above. First of all, more than 95 percent of customers always told us that they would have paid us our full commission if we met the customers reserve at auction because the market spoke and the market value was recognized….so now we try to do our best to get the sale. In turn, now 99 percent appreciate our work and efforts and gladly pay the commission. Most have worked with us for years so we know when to sell and when not to most of the time.
Regarding the sale of ad.com and the video, we had a Left bid of $400k going into the auction and 4 other end users bidding on the name. One online, 2 on the phone and one live in the room. There was nothing that the auctioneer did to get the bids…if anything, it was our hard work and efforts getting end users excited about a great name.
Regarding systems that are online and live, I am the only one that makes the decision to let a sale go through if the bid is over reserve.
Regarding Rick Latona’s auction, he did a great job bringing back some of his own names to get sales and even sold some of his own names at a loss to try to get some action. But those were his own names…as most are at his auctions, not customers names. Shows.com was a good example where he took a loss to try to build some excitement…unfortunately we are not at liberty to lose customers money to build excitement, we do this by having the best names at the best prices and a professional and exciting event to do the same where ever we can.
Sometimes you “let the other guy win” because maybe he wants or needs it more.
I came this >< close to joining the bidding for FloridaAttorney.com. I had my finger on the mouse button, thinking I might “retire” to Florida and it might be nice to have that calling card if I wanted to open a small practice.
Then I thought “What are you thinking?! The operative word is ‘retire’ . . and chances are it won’t be to Florida . . ”
Damned nice domain for $8,000.00. It’s a law practice in a box. If someone fresh out of law school was prescient enough to snag it they would be well on their way to a successful private practice.
Rob – I am trying to understand where you are coming from here…you must be upset that you did not get a name in the auction or something?
The spotter/ auctioneer’s assistant did exactly what he was supposed to do. Have you EVER attended a Jackson’s or Macum or Christies auction? do you know what they do to get bids and buyers? They will jump right in your face and call you names…that is what they are supposed to do at some of those events.
The auctioneer’s assistant was professional, ethical, and upstanding and did his Job. Div told me after the event that he had fun, was excited and happy they purchased the domain….although it was $500K more than they wanted to spend, they were still and are still happy with the end result. That is part of why auctions work – excitement, competition, the thrill of bidding and the big WIN!
Monte,
“you must be upset that you did not get a name in the auction or something”‘
No reason to be condescending to me. I am stating my opinion here. No need to get personal. For your information, I did not submit any domains for your auction.
I think it is unprofessional to intimidate and provoke a bidder as this auction helper clearly did several times. If you want to defend his actions then that’s fine but in my opinion it is not something that I expect from a Moniker auction or a TRAFFIC event.
I have never seen this type of intimidation in any domain auction and although I have not been to a Christie’s auction before, I reject your suggestion that this is how they operate. I have been going to auctions since I was very young and only a couple times in several decades have I ever seen anything so egregious as this auction helpers behavior.
So, then, why the intimidation at this auction when it has never been done before at a Moniker auction?
Can we expect more of the same behavior at the next Moniker auction since you are clearly defending or at least approving of his behavior?
(Again, sorry Mike for getting off topic but this is something I feel very passionate about.)
Intimidation is a strong and not an accurate word to use here Rob. You were not even there, you have no idea what was said or what was going on. You are only making assumptions….and as I stated, Div was happy, excited, thrilled and not intimidated. He is a big boy running a very profitable company. He made a decision based on his own feelings and his budget and his long term strategy for his company…not because the auctioneer’s son was sitting in front of him encouraging him to bid…like he was supposed to do – that is his job.
Have you ever attended one of our auctions Rob? Prior to last year, I had my own sales team doing the bidding assistance. I realized that we needed a more professional approach and to bring the auctions full circle and make them even closer to what other high end asset auctions are doing…so I hired auctioneers with teams….teams that increase sales which is good for sellers, good for the industry, and helps the buyers get a real high end live auction experience. Since we have made that move, the feedback has been even more positive than before, not less.
As you can see……I too am VERY passionate about our industry and what we created and I will defend our auctions if they were done right….and I will make improvements where they do not meet expectations.
I am sorry if you felt my comment was condescending – I did not mean it to be, just could not understand how you can make such a statement without being there and being part of the excitement. I never heard such a comment from anyone there live or watching.
In any case, I think the point Mike was making is that there are some great names that did not sell in the live and some great names in the extended that should sell and that many should look at.
Thanks
Monte,
1. You say I “have no idea what was said or what was going on”
I am making all my comments based on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVZuQiYCpAo so you’re right, anything that happened before or after this video, I have no idea but I saw the auctioneer’s helper’s behavior and I heard his words that, to me, were almost confrontational.
Since it sounds like you are proud of your choice of auctioneer and this person’s behavior, can bidders expect to see more of this type of behavior at the next Moniker auction at TRAFFIC?
2. You said “Have you EVER attended a Jackson’s or Macum or Christies auction? do you know what they do to get bids and buyers? They will jump right in your face and call you names”
Here’s a couple videos from Christies. I don’t see anyone getting in people’s faces and calling them names. I don’t know those other auction houses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBNOfJNphpo
I don’t think that the guy in tux is going over the top. He’s not talking down on the bidder and if someone gets intimidated by a 2 second look LOL good luck with success in any sort of business. I think that themed auctions e.g. Latona’s cowboy hat auction bring fun to the auction and if Div had not problem with the antics of the Moniker rep in tux then why create an issue from nothing?
Personally, I think that ad.com went for a decent amount of money; the asset is now in the hands of a competent industry leader. Great stuff, good luck to everyone involved. Let’s work together for a future success as well, the least we need is “friendly fire” 😀
I don’t like the way Moniker treats their customers, but from what I could tell in the video, Monte seems to be right. The intimidation didn’t look that bad.
We purchased SteakKnives.com and Shows.com. We felt that for the most part they were the only good domains at the auctions that sold for reasonable prices to a buyer who has no immediate plans to develop them. There were a few other domains that were ok if the buyer has plans for them.
Were the two that we pruchased cheap? That depends on who you ask. Some of the comments above say yes. We believe they sold for what they were worth. There were many well off domainers who could have bid more but did not. It is dillifcult, time consuming and expensive these days to develop a domain into a full blown profitable site.
Auctions bring true values of the items sold. It is rare that any item at any auction is a steal.
That only happens when the auction is poorly advertised who a buyer knows something about the item that no one else does. We buy collectibles, land and other things and there are good deals but rarely steals.
The auctions were the same as before. Many good domains that are over priced and a large group of mediocre domains that sell for 5-100K.
We were shocked on the price of AD.com. We would have no interest unless we owned Ads.com. Time will tell on this one.
Look at the prices from all the sites for dropped domains etc. They are a joke. I ask myself what are the buyers going to do with these domains? These absurd buying of junk has to eventually slow down. This list was in the newsletter where I found this blog. What junk.
The first one is om if that is your companies initials.
ACTIVE AUCTIONS CLOSING TODAY
(28) eyq.com 3,666 USD
(24) live2nite.com 505 USD
(19) 830.org 510 USD
(18) trifold.com 496 USD
(16) 7oh.com 170 USD
(13) v7o.com 150 USD
(13) 862.net 610 USD
(12) freepreviewcamscom 180 USD
(8) klu.eu 190 EUR
(7) americanetworkscom 260 USD
(7) aymi.com 120 USD
(6) mrstep.com 110 USD
(4) rjn.eu 140 EUR
(4) drfeel.com 4,000 USD
(3) winkyou.com 270 USD
(2) dxu.eu 110 EUR
(2) foxwhois.com 70 USD
(2) cravethemusic.com 250 USD
(2) gopa.net 70 USD
(2) tshirtmania.com 210 USD
(2) buzzbuster.com 1,200 USD
Rick L, not everyone can afford to pay a premium price for a domain. They have to start somewhere. Maybe, that is why the person is paying $210. for TShirtMania.com .
Trifold – maybe a brochure/printing site.
MrStep.com might be bought by a stair manufacturer.
Not everyone is in your position to buy Printing.com, TShirt.com or Stairs.com (hypothetical examples). Assuming they are available for purchase.
As for your purchase of SteakKnives.com, someone might say it is a waste of money. They would only want to own Knives.com .
(I won’t agree with them.)
Lets say I originally owned the domains – Twitter.com and FaceBook.com
Would I have known the potential value of these domains? NO.
As for Ad/Ads, do you know if Ian already made a deal to sell Ads?
I have given up trying to second guess why someone is buying a domain.
Not sure what the big deal is for steakknives.com. wordtracker gives it only 39/daily. Im sure its more, but still are you really going to open up a store selling only steak knives. My Opinion, you got yourself a great deal. BTW, I was the one bidding on campingsupplies.com
It can be still be an advantage to have have these domain but in most markets a branded competitor also does very well and can be more memorable.