When I won an auction a few weeks, which exceeded $5,000 (actually the domain exceeded $20K) I got an e-mail from NameJet.com with wiring instructions for payment and this stern warning:
“”If we do not receive your wire within 7 days we will put the domain up for re-auction and we will charge your account an administrative fee of $10″””
Well needless to say I was scared to hell. Should I risk a fee of $10 or should I just pay my $20k+ bill in full?
These are the difficult questions we have to face everyday.
This got me looking seriously into NameJet.com continuing problem with non-paying bidders and the ramifications that such non-payers have in the overall auction.
In the last few weeks I also got a few calls and e-mail from other domainers who have seen some issues they did not like arising from non-paying bidders at namejet.com
First let’s try to define what a non-paying bidder is.
When you establish a NameJet.com account you have to place a credit card on file.
It is unclear if NameJet just determines that its a real card and the zip code matches the billing record, or if any authorization is made to test the available limit on the card.
Any auction where the winning bid is priced at $4,999 or under, NameJet.com bills the credit card on file.
If the card does not take the charge, another attempts are made on other days to charge the card.
It is not clear how many days the charge is attempted before the domain is re-auctioned.
Any auction where the winning bid is $5,000 or more, the winning bidders is required to wire in the funds and the winner is given 7 days to get the funds wired in.
There are several issues that arise due to non-paying bidders and great unfairness that results to all other innocent bidders.
1. If a winning bidder does not pay for an auction at NameJet.com currently, the domain goes into a public re-auction where it is resold to the highest bidder. The re-auction is not limited to those who participated in the closed auction the first time, which was opened to only those who backordered the domain by the deadline. Instead the whole world is invited into the public auction caused by a non-paying bidder, potentially leading to a much higher sales price achieved in the first auction.
This is clearly unfair to all others that were in a closed auction, only to be beat by a non-paying bidder.
Godaddy.com in the case of a non-paying bidder, offers the domain to the second highest bidder, without regard to the non-paying bidders, bids. So if you bid $10 at Godaddy.com with a $110 proxy and the non-paying bidder, bids $120 and wins the auction, Godaddy will offer you the domain for $10 in the case of a non-payer in that example.
This seems to the fairest resolution to the issue.
However NameJet.com, does not offer the domain to the second highest bidder, nor do they re-auction the domain only amongst those who were involved in the closed auction, but instead opens the auction to all.
Let’s be clear here.
Qualifying bidders and monitoring them, including requiring cash deposits, prepaid credit card deposits or other measure to ensure payment, is one of the obligations of the auction house.
A non-paying bidder is not the fault of the other bidders.
Bidders need to know they are bidding against real people, who have an ability to pay and if someone fails to pays the auction house, it should be the auction house, not the other innocent bidders, that should suffer any loss.
So the domainer community needs to demand change.
In the case on a non-paying bidder, our first choice would be that the domain get automatically awarded to the second highest bidder, without regard to any bid placed by the non-paying bidder.
Our second choice, is that the domain get re-auctioned in the same closed auction as the first auction, with the starting bid on the re-auction to be the highest bid, without regard to the bids of the non-paying bidder.
Our third choice, there is no third choice.
There is no justification for inviting new bidders who could not bid in an closed action to now participate because the auction house did not screen and/or monitor bidders.
The auction house should not be allowed to profit additionally from a non-paying bidder.
Bottom line, end of story.
2. Namejet.com does not seem to have a set rule of when a bidder is disqualified from bidding, or what it takes to have his account suspended or shut down. It is not clear how many non-paying bids it takes to get your bidding account suspended or terminated. Clearly that number is more than 1.
To NameJet.com’s credit they have responded to domainers, on a case by case basis and has shut down accounts after domainers have complained about a certain non-paying bidders,
However NameJet.com should monitor there own non[paying bidders, follow establised rules and will shut down or suspend accounts on its own, without complaint.
The e-mail I received did not talk about, or even threaten that if I did not pay for the domain, that my bidding privileges would be suspended or revoked. If you account is not closed or suspended for failing to pay at $20K+ bid what does it take?
And why do we not know this?
NameJet.com needs to adopt and announce a straight forward policy’s on these issues. There needs to be clear policy that after 1,2 or 3 non-payments your bidding privileges are revoked until cash depoists are made on the account.
On eBay.com the number is 3. You don’t pay for 3 items on eBay.com and they shut your account down.
What is NameJets.com number?
3. A non-paying bidder is continued be allowed to bid in other auctions. This situation came to me from another domainer who tracked all the auctions he was involved in, whether he won or lost, and kept record who he was bidding against.
Here’s what he found.
A bidder let’s say who defaults in paying an auction he was high bidder on, continues to bid on other auctions. So the innocent domain bidder is saying to himself in a new auction, why should I bid against a guy who didn’t pay for his last domain. After all if your not going to pay, you can just push the domain price up and up, as there is no downside and no ability to pay.
Good point.
Lets say a guy bids on 20 domains during a 7 day period, wins 2, loses 18. He doesn’t pay for the 2 he won.
All other bidders in the other 18 auctions are bidding against this guy, increasing the eventual selling price of the domain. Increasing the amount they paid for the domain.
We would all be pissed off if we realized this was happening.
Well it is.
So using my example what Namejet.com will do, in the situation I described is re-auction off the 2 non-paid domains, in a public auction, open to all comers, and let stand in tack all the auctions where the non-bidder lost, even if he was the second high bidder.
Now if a guy is the high bidder on a $500 domain and can’t pay for it, because the credit card on file will not process, why is the guy continued to be allowed to bid on other auctions? And if that person winds up not paying for the domain at all why should any of his bids placed around the time of the non-paying bid, be honored?
Simply it should not.
Out of fairness to all bidders, if a bidder winds up not paying for an item, all bids placed by the guy within a reasonable period, say 7-10 days, should be voided and this should be done by NameJet.com under its own volition, and without the complaint of other bidders. NameJet should notify winning bidders that there was a disqualified bidder participating in the auction and the final auction price paid by the winner should be reduced down to the level it would have been disregarding all bids by the non-paying bidder.
In essence Namejet should notify its customers that he was bidding against a non-paying bidder which caused the price he paid to be more than it should and NameJet should credit its customers with the overpayment caused by the non-paying bidder. What a great way of building up Namejet’s credibility.
This is only fair for all bidders on Namejet.com
And above all, auctions have to be fair to all participants.
While most of the domain sold on NameJet.com, wind up getting paid for by the winning bidder, there has been almost every week, a few higher priced domains, that are put back for auction for non-payment.
Just this last week I noticed that several domains including, keywest.com (second re-auction), tvstation.com, bargainhunt.com, wantedads.com went back up for re-auction all having a four figure selling price the first time.
This is way too many.
Namejet.com needs to announce firm policies on all these issue to bolster confidence in the auction.
If Namejet.com fails to act they do so at their peril.
We have brought these issue to there attention, but its your turn.
Many of you arre active bidder at NameJet.com.
Some of you spend a lot of money there every month.
You need to let Namejet.com that these issues are important to you and vital to your continued participation.
I do believe they are willing to listen and if you make your voices heard we can get a lot of these problems solved.
If you stand in silence they will only escalate, which will only hurt the aftermarket, the domain industry and domainers who are forced into bidding against known non-payers or just walk away from the auctions.
Excellent post and long overdue, Mike.
Agree with all your points.
All of Namejet’s rules seem to be in the best of interests of Namejet and not their customers, the bidders.
Enjoyed the sarcasm regarding the $10 adm fee LOL – Ridiculous…
Hopefully, Namejet is as open to complaints as Godaddy and this post results in some policy changes.
I’m pretty sure they give some bidders a longer period to pay if they communicate with Namejet. I’m basing it on the delay in the change of ownership in whois.
I agree they should elliminate the defaulting bids from the re-auction of the domain.
I have noticed when a domain goes to public bidding, many bidders retract their initial bids.
If NJ continues with the practice of putting them into public bidding, they should drop the price down to the initial bidding level. $ 69.
But, you are overlooking Namejet’s primary goal, make as much profit (ROI) as possible from assets (domains) they don’t own.
There is one more choice for 1.: allow bids lower than current high bid., so I could bid for 3rd place under 2 top bidders (who might be same person knowing he will failt to pay for hte highest bid)
Very true. Found that thread at DNFORUM http://www.dnforum.com/f204/deadbeat-auctions-namejet-thread-345371.html
Thanks for bringing this to the surface Mike. There are some real problems with NameJet’s system for nonpaying bidders. To me I find it hard to differentiate between schill bidding. What is the difference really. Think about it, imagine half of the bids on a name you are trying to win never had an intention of paying? Makes you wonder why it is that NameJet seems to be the most successful lately in bringing bigger numbers.
Secondly, I did have a possible situation recently regarding a non-paying bidder. I was the 2nd highest bidder. The name would have sold to the high bidder for only about $5k had I not bid. I fought long and hard and ended up jacking the price up to a healthy $11,5k before I gave up, and the other guy won. I noticed it seemed the name was not paid for as it was still in NameJet’s whois (strangely it is still in NameJet’s whois today, so I wonder if they bought it back themselves or some other shinanigans) so I was getting concearned it was about to go back to auction with my last bid of $11k as the high bid. But why should it go back to public auction with $11k as the high bid. All the bids since $5k should be voided since they were all between me and someone who was never intending on paying. Thats price jacking. Anyway, I called NameJet, expressed my concearn and they told me if it did go back to auction I could call them right away and get all of that guy’s bids voided. Not sure why I have to call for this though.
I was in the auction for KeyWest.net and I did not know it went to re-auction.
Where do you find the re-auctioned names?
You posted many of the reasons I hardly bid at NameJet.com, Sedo.com, Pool.com and SnapNames.com
It’s all online auction services really.. eBay etc.
None of them have a Strong verification process and none of them award the REAL people that pay for all auctions they win!
Each time I bid in an online auction, I always have the fear the other “person” bidding against me is a FAKE, Computer, Kid or whatever!
As you said, it would (does) really piss a person off if you find out you “would” of won the domain auction for $100, but because some “fake” thought it would be fun to keep bidding, knowing they were not going to pay and you happen to be the high bidder at the end for $3,500 or whatever price and have to pay that amount!
This is one reason why I really hate Proxy bids. With so many hackers, who says they can’t hack into NameJet or whatever online auction system and see your proxy bid and just bid you up time after time…. makes you think!
I backorder very few names at NameJet.
Their system is flawed and not to be trusted.
I refuse to be taken for a ride.
They don’t get more than the initial/required bid for me.
If I get a great bargain that is lovely but if there is a bidding frenzy, I want nothing to do with it.. The way they do biz sucks.
Mike
We won several auctions by the Backorder date, where we were the only single bidder… the names never got transferred to our account, because Namejet support said it was Fabulous’ problem…after several weeks they fixed the issue, but we never received the names. Their customer support sucks
*
How do you spell s-h-i-l-l bidding?
*
“This situation came to me from another domainer who tracked all the auctions he was involved in, whether he won or lost, and kept record who he was bidding against.”
I started that thread at DNForum.com a while back – why don’t you post a link to the source? 😉
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A stupid question from someone that don’t play the drop game:
And why are not ALL these auctions simply public from the start?
Any non-paying bidder should be banned & account closed on the very first default.
MHB wrote “Godaddy.com in the case of a non-paying bidder, offers the domain to the second highest bidder”.
This is the only fair & correct way to run an auction. The supposed “high bidder” (once in default) should have ALL of his bids deleted and the domain sold to the second highest bidder.
All bids (along with bidder numbers or user names) should be plain for all to see and record.
Offering to the next highest bid in the event of a non-payer is NOT the answer because it is not as simple as that.
What if this was a shill bidder, a plant?
Actually, it does not matter if this rule is applied in the event of non-paying winner; disregard ALL bids placed by that bidder.
This certainly is not going to sit well with the auctioneers. It would cost them tens, or hundreds, or thousands of dollars.
Yes, it would be fair to offer the domain to the next highest bidder but NOT at the next highest bid price.
The offer should be made according to when the bidder and the next highest bidder actually went one-on-one.
The assumption MUST be made that if the winner will not pay the he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PAID at any price. Period.
Allow me to explain and illustrate the point.
Simply offering to the next highest bidder simply because of the bid amounts could potentially cost that bidder hundreds of thousands of dollars because in essence they were bidding only against themselves now that the phantom bidder has been removed.
If the winning bidder has entered 8 different bids on one auction and then backs out, all of his/her bids needs to be totally backed out of the equation.
I win an auction for $10,000 and you were second for $9,900.
I started bidding at the $5000 mark.
When we hit $8000, from that point on it was you and me, mano a mano, slugging it out.
I am a plant, a shill bidder, or just a bogus entity.
I don’t pay, never intended to pay, and I was nothing more than someone running up the bids.
You are notified that you won for $9,900.
You are excited to have the coveted name.
But look back at the bidding sequence.
If I am totally bogus, you actually won the name at $8000.
Because at that point, all other bidders were bested by you.
And if my winning bid does not count and is erased then ALL of my bids are erased.
It goes back to the point were it became one-on-one because you outbid all the legitimate bidders up to that point.
Award you the domain at $9900.00 just cost you $1900 above and beyond what you should have paid and made an additional commission based on NameJets structure.
In this case, it is a WIN-WIN for NameJet and a WIN-LOSE for the next bidder.
So no, this does not just impact NameJet and yes, domainers should be concerned if this is going on.
If you look at the bidding history of the specific auction and note where that winner was battling it out head-to-head then that is the starting point and the ending point of the auction.
All the other bidders involved are a non-factor as the assumption is you would have beat them.
If other legit bidders were involved from that 5000 point up to 8000, then even if the bogus bidder’s bids are erased, you still would have beaten the legit bidders in a head-to-head case.
At a glance I agree with Gerry, because you make a good point, and in most cases your solution would probably be good enough for me if I was the #2 bidder. But technically, when you get a non-paying bidder often times the auction should probably be completely restarted. If you look at all the times the fake bidder put in bids at various points in the auction, its really hard to speculate just what effect this bidder had on the outcome of the auction. Also, imagine the example you listed form 5000 to 8000. What if it was a 3 bidder merry-go-round of which 1 of the bidders was bogus. Its hard to say what the auction should have gone for if the bogus bidder wasn’t in the mix. I behave differently when I’m bidding against 1 person then when I’m bidding against 2. There is alot of psychology involved in these auctions whether we like to admit it or not.
Guys
All the re-auctioned domains are in the “public” tab of the auctions on NameJet.com
I know a lot of you compare this to ebay but actually ebay is better, because each person your bidding again on ebay has a ranking, which namejet does not (nor does any other domain auction house), and they do have a stated policy of 3 times and your out for non=payers
NameJet’s bidding rules are not clearly stated and it appears that they try to trick people into making a higher-than-minimum bid for “Pre-Release” names when it is never, as far as I can see, in your best interest to do so. They claim they will try harder if you bid higher-than-minimum on a “Pending Deletion” domain, but they already have the Pre-Release names so I think bidding higher there accomplishes nothing more than to eliminate any chance you would have won the auction for less.
GoDaddys system can be gamed:
Lets say the domain’s worth about $6,000
Bidder A bids $10,000
Domains auction price currently at $10
Bidder B quickly bids $10,500 to outbid A.
Domains auction price currently at $10,001 – well above its $6,000 valuation.
Nobody else bids because $10,001 is TOO HIGH.
Bidder B wins, but fails to pay.
According to GoDaddy Rules Bidder A gets the domain for $10, a veritable Bargain!!!
Bidder A and B split the profit between them.
Rinse and repeat.
Does Godaddy suspend non-payors? What’s their policy?
Jon
I understand what your saying but namejet.com clearly separates out the true pending delete domains from the pre-release domains.
This is not a new service, and people should have figured out a long time ago to not put a backorder on any pre-release domain for more than $69
Tony
Yes Godaddy does suspend your account if you don’t pay for an item. They do not let you bid until you pay for the item and the reinstatement fee.
Godaddy payment system is not automatic, you have to go into your account and pay for your auction wins.
Gary
As I said Godaddy blocks accounts that do not pay,
I don’t know if they match up e-mail addresses when new accounts are applied for, so i don’t know how much repeating you would do.
Moreover, in your example your also assuming that no one else places a bid on this $6,000 domain between $10 and $10,000.
Michael
Yes, and no one should criticize me for selling snake oil as I’ve been doing it for quite some time and they should have figured out by now that it’s worthless.
(Except snake oil probably has some value…)
I’m against many of the ridiculous restrictions that so-called consumer activists seek to place on businesses, but I’d consider voting for a law that would make it illegal to sell something which has absolutely no value for anyone in any circumstance, which appears to be the case here.
Jon schultz your post has to be one of the dumbest posts in the history of the internet
Perhaps, Hugh, but I’ll never know how unless you explain it to me.
Comments like that are about as valuable as the bid-entry box on Pre-Release domains at NameJet.
We appreciate all the feedback. This seems to be the most consistent concern of our customers and an area that we need to improve. We will be making changes to this policy in the very near future to address these concerns.
Good comment Jamie (#7). When you place a proxy bid at any online auction house that receives a percentage of the winning bid, you are trusting that they are not going to shill-bid the auction up at least somewhat higher than it otherwise would have gone.
The higher a percentage of the winning the bid that the auction house takes, the more temptation there is for them and the more trusting you have to be.
And when they offer proxy bids and extend the auction closing time when a bid is placed in the last few minutes (to prevent “sniping,” which is perfectly legitimate), you really have to think they’re nice guys…
This is a parasitic industry, and you are all parasites.
By which I mean:
you add no value, no services to the internet. You prey on lucrative domain names and then stuff them full of junk adverts, or charge the person or organisation who genuinely wants that domain an outrageously inflated price.
The spirit of the internet is open source. You are all talentless money-grabbing parasites.
Are any of you web designers? Or content providers (content of value)? I doubt it.
You take advantage of the biggest swindle in the history of the intenet, clogging servers full of pointless files, sucking up energy that needn’t be used, and ripping off honest, talented people like myself who are trying to make a genuine living by designing websites.
Job satisfaction people? Know about that? You get it when you do something positive in the world.
Parasites.
Quote –
“charge the person or organisation who genuinely wants that domain an outrageously inflated price.”
I said the same thing about the grocery store, car dealer, bank and credit card company.
For example, I wanted to rent an ocean front beach house last summer for my family. I told them they were asking too much. I pointed out how little it cost to build the building. And, I also said that the owner didn’t need any more money. He has enough.
I hate those parasites that own something I want. And, they want to make a profit off of me.
Ali, thanks for telling it like it is.
Incidently, I want to buy a website.
I assume you work for the same minimum wage as in China or India.
Poor Boy
The grocery store, the car dealer, the bank and credit card company – these are all service providers. They work an honest sweat to produce their service (well, maybe not the banks!), and get paid an honest wage (again, maybe not the banks).
Your industry is not creative. Domain names should be free: they don’t exist anywhere until someone wants them. If I want to register myname.com, why should I have to pay you? I shouldn’t. What work have you done to deserve my money? None.
Parasite:
dictionary.com
1: The domain name industry.
2: You.
If you want a website I charge £20 per hour. I charge this price because what I produce are skilfully-made bespoke products. I’ve spent five years learning my craft, and am selling that talent.
Anyone with a trust fund or a rich Daddy could do what you do. You contribute nothing to society, except a sense of disgust in people like me. Or did you spend five years learning how to click ‘place bid’?
Got a come-back Poor Boy?
Anyone? Seriously, I’d love to hear how you people justify your existence.
Cheers,
Ali
I don’t need to justify my existence to a person who is obsessed with seeing himself as one of the good guys, and needs to create bad guys in order to do so.
What we do is legal and ought to be legal. The situation with domain names is all supply and demand. Domain names are no different than real estate. Either we have a free market or we let people like you decide what everyone may and may not do.
God forbid.
Fair enough guys. I just got bid up in an auction for the domain name of my new design agency, and it’s money I haven’t got (despite charging £20 per hour!). I let the rage get the better of me, and took it out here.
Please accept my apologies.
We’ve all got to make money!
Sounds like you should raise your prices. I really don’t know your industry that well so perhaps I’m wrong, but I feel like a design firm could charge more than £20 p/h.
At one point I owned a web design company and charged $65 p/h and that was 6 years ago. I ended up selling that company.
Cheers jp – I’m planning on it.
Reading this back: I was really mean, I’m so sorry. If I could delete it I really would.
Peace and love to all.
I want to know how everyone thinks of the following situation:
After backordering a domain at Namejet, I entered an auction and won it. The wining bid was slightly above 250 USD, there was no need for any verified account. They successfully received the money from my credit card. It took namejet 3 days then they send me an email stating that they were unable to verify my account and thus they refunded the money and are going to re-auction my domain.
Just like that. They didn’t ever ask me to verify my account otherwise they will have to offer it for re-auction or suspend it. They just decided that although i won the auction, and they received the money, they are going to re-auction it for public. I called to ask if this is true! how come they already got the money but refused to give me the service?!! This is completely unfair. The support person kept repeating one single sentence during the whole call: “I am sorry but this is the way our system works”.
Any suggestions?
Ahmed
What was the domain name?
it is interdesigns.com
Since they plan for public auction, it needn’t to be a secret any more.
Ahmed
I would write to the GM of NameJet.com
His name is Steve Brown and his e-mail address is
Steve.Brown@namejet.com
Thank you for your advice, i sent an email explaining the situation to Mr. Steve Brown, I will keep you updated on the details
Good news, i have to tell everyone about 🙂
I have to say first that i was desperate with almost no hope.
Thanks to Michael H. Berkens (MHD) who didn’t only direct me to NameJet CEO but also took the initiative to contact him on my behalf. I was surprised to receive an email from NameJet CEO only 2 hours after my post here.
During the last 24 hours Steve Brown worked hand-on-hand with us to solve our problem. We verified the account and got the domain back.
I really can’t thank both Michael or Steve enough. Wishing you all the best and success.
Ahmed
Glad things worked out for you.
I too am in the same situation as Ahmed. Its really frustrating to win an auction, get a notification that the credit card was billedd successfully and then all of the sudden you get an email saying your account is disabled and that the domain will be auctioned again… In my case too they did not try to make contact before just closing the account. I hope it will be solved, but so far this is a very disappointing first meet with namejet…
Try dropping an email to Steve.Brown@namejet.com, In my case he was very friendly and understanding. THe case was solved in less than 48 hours.
Thanx for the tip. I too got some really good assistance from Mr Brown and things are being resolved for my case now.
Hi recently I started a bidd with namejet.com for a florwership related domain name.
I was the only bidder during the barkorder status, starting the bid an “appear” 4 bidders.
The bidd begins today and the prices only high 20 box.
My strategy is simply: dont play the Namejet game to push and push the price.
In the last 30 mins of finish the bid i push for my highgest bid that i can pay and thats all.
If I dont win, accept lost the domain, if the higher bidder dont pay and the domain y re auctioned I simply not pay anymore.
In the proccess if I see something illegal or dirty of the side of namejet y will post the results and my opinion. Including if “their system” rejects my credit card for any cause.
I will document my case, including the using a video.
I dont see what the problem is. People win an auction, they are sent the invoice – pay the damn invoice! A $10 fee isnt a deterrent in the least… Either pay the $20,000 or pay a $10 fee? Please. A DETERRENT would be a 10% penalty plus the non-payer’s name being placed on a public website for everyone to see. What part of “violation” of terms do people just not get?
Sounds more like a problem with people feeling they can do whatever they wish, nothing more.
Want to ask why namejet don’t offer domain to 2nd highest bidder whereas all other companies like godaddy or snapnames do so .
Its strange that they start re-auction inviting more people apart from people who earlier participated within auction .
Its really now fair.
Want to ask why namejet don’t offer domain to 2nd highest bidder whereas all other companies like godaddy or snapnames do so .
Its strange that they start re-auction inviting more people apart from people who earlier participated within auction .
Its really now fair.