My new buddy from domaining.com, tells me that any post dealing with ICANN issues is DOA.
Domaining.com tells me that any post dealing with ICANN is largely ignored by the domain community.
Not read, no interest, done and over.
Posts having Jokes get more response.
Posts having cartoons get more response.
Really?
You guys realize that ICANN is the body which regulates domains and like the FCC which regulates television, is in control to a large degree of your destiny, don’t you?
I actually didn’t believe that readers in the domain business would have little interest in ICANN matters, so I have been publishing many stories about them this week, and unfortunately it appear so.
Our list of adult domains sales from Internext, has many more readers than our post of ICANN and an open dialogue with a representative of ICANN.
It’s not about out blog, its about what you read and what you consider important.
If you think all think all is well and going fine with ICANN, then you don’t need to read the post or respond.
If your happy with 500 new extensions, great.
If your happy with 1,000 new extension, even better.
But if you ever wanted to make your point or enter into a discussion with ICANN on the new domain extensions, this may be your one and only opportunity.
The bigger question is as a domainer, why do you not care about the group that regulates you?
In addition to be very annoying and complicate, it’s not exciting readings. I want to dream, read how people make money with domains how I can make more deals, make more cash, …
Francois
I learned a long time ago that a dollar earned is the same as a dollar saved.
So if domainers were more involved in ICANN matters the fees might be lower and domainers would be well ahead.
ICANN is probably the single most important thing to my business plans in the upcoming years. Literally. #1. The big “Dawgs”. I definitely read everything ICANN realted, so keep them coming! I can give some more info, but I’ll leave it at that. 😉 I’m hoping that I’ll free up a year where I just travel to different ICANN meetings around the world… possibly 2010!
Sammy
You seem to be the exception.
I can only go by domaining.com stats and my stats
Michael,
Its sad but there is no doubt that a claim of less interest in ICAAN articles is true.
More people visit gossip sites every day than vote, many would even vote for Will Ferrell as president.
Any article that does not cause immediate pain (as in we will charge you $500 tonight) or a story of a domain sale or something funny you can share with friends is sadly dismissed or delegated to the bottom by many.
ICAAN also has a pretty bad rap with most domainers I think. I would guess many domainers feel they have no power to control any ICAAN issues other than simply allow them to dictate what they think.
It is nice to see a member of ICAAN on your site and by all means continue to post as many of us do read the news but in order to get community interest ICAAN should really make more of an effort to promote discussion or at least a good PR agency to brand a new image for the group.
Its a hard call but ultimately unless they propose a direct financial hit thats more than a couple cents a year most domainers I believe will always hope people like you will continue the battle for them and just go on with daily business.
Even using the best result – more people will still want to read gossip, laugh or dream about selling a domain.
Maybe an open Q&A with ICAAN by phone would generate more interest by quality people in the industry than can be noticed by pageviews of articles.
Power is not always in quantity but more of us need to speak up for sure.
Well, that said, it seems a shame. What does that say for the demographics of this feed? More importantly what does it say for the future of our industry?
I guess we might as well start getting all our domain feed from Alltop.com so we don’t miss any pertinent articles on the industry. I like my news less filtered.
I would bet a majority of the people who invest in domain names knows less about ICANN than the FCC. I believe most people involved in our industry are part-timers and do it for a little extra income. It’s not a long term thing for most people, and they look one day or week ahead rather than 5 or 10 years down the road. There aren’t many of us who work in this business as domain investors full-time. It’s not a good thing, but it is something with which we have to contend. Unfortunately, the domain investment community isn’t nearly as active as other industries – even other online industries like SEO, web dev, tech dev, and others.
To help you in your discussion.
Of the thousnads registered members around 900 domainers have fully fill their contact information and few questions we ask.
This one can help you:
What is domaining for you?
13% … Something you are discovering
17% … Something related to your business
14% … A hobby
37% … A secondary business
19% … Your main business
Elliot is pretty much right about ICANN knowledge people have.
I bet 70 % think there domain is ruled by there registrar, because for those 70 % they dont realy get any further. Well maybe a name sale at ebay and learn how to push a domain. Thats about it for them.
Also, 9 times out of 10 you cant bring youre message across to someone explainig what domaining is all about and what this industry means.
I do think the ones in this business for good are interested in ICANN actions.
There just has not been a strong political comunity built between ” Domain Real Estate Agents”.
Elliot,
I think you hit the nail on the head here.
There re what, 10 people on the planet who own or control the most ‘important’ domains.
And the rest of the ‘domainers’ are just posers hoping to make a rent or car payment with their next flip.
So that leaves, Mike and 9 other people who actually give a rats-ass about ICANN … right?
– Richard
I’d say there are many more than 10 domain investors who care about ICANN, but even if 75% of those people speak out, you still have a small number.
When it comes to the vanity TLDs, I think the $$$ behind it will be heard MUCH louder than the few dozens domain investors who speak out. There’s a lot of money to be made if/when this moves forward.
Our best allies are the corporate brand owners who would be significantly impacted as well, but I don’t think they need or want to work with us.
Hopefully, you will continue to educate and write articles on all aspects of domaining whether or not they are “popular” or accepted on a “feed”.
Censorship in any business doesn’t help anyone.
My own body is the most important thing for me. Yet I do not read scientific journals about it. WHy ? Because I believe there are people they do that for me (doctors).
I usually discover important news from blogs or forums in which someone more involved has posted an important news item in regard to ICANN. Thankfully, there’s a lot of nuance that doesn’t require daily domainer attention.
However, once a major ICANN disaster has sprung the alarm bell, most of us do go into panic/crisis management mode to get the train back on the track. Ha!
I see a lot of confusion in domainer-land with regard to ICANN and it can be overwhelming to navigate so I’d bet most just give up. If you don’t know the history, stakeholders, or issues it’s even more of a nightmare.
I see the confusion all the time in posts and comments. Even the most simple of things confuse people such as those who don’t know the difference between a registrar and a registry.
If you enter in to these discussions you need to be prepared and know what you are talking about. I would guess most people are just like they are in normal life. Most people prefer hearing a joke over working or thinking out an issue any day. Some people aren’t debaters. Some aren’t good with words or logic. Many are just lazy or don’t care to be involved . . . just like most people are lazy about taking care of their bodies (as Denny points out so well 😉 One day it will cost you, but hey that cartoon was sure funny wasn’t it !
I think the general apathy towards ICANN posts is a result of the actions of ICANN itself.
In the beginning, ICANN’s mandate was a “botton up” approach. How many remember the (only) election to place someone on the ICANN board? When Karl was elected, the close knit “good old boys” were aghast… here was someone with real ideas and a sense of what was good for the world, the internet, and the people… not just what served ICANN and corporations. The result? Karl was hobbled and ICANN immediately took a new approach to self perpetuating cronyism for any/all board members.
Bottom up? Ever notice how ICANN will call for public comment on whatever nefarious, self serving proposal they may have and when people speak out against it, voluminously and in huge numbers… ICANN just spins it in whatever way they please and passes it anyway?
Bureaucracy at its worst. That is ICANN. They will propose a study of the feasibility of creating a committee to formulate a plan for creating a working group to initiate a draft… ok, you get the point.
New ccTLD’s? Do some research on WTF happened to .web and tell me ICANN isn’t the most corrupt political self serving organization on Earth.
So why the apathy? Because ICANN doesn’t care, doesn’t listen, and won’t change anything that isnt self serving to themselves. At least that is what they have demonstrated countless times over the years.
I don’t for a minute think that people do not care. I do, however, think that people have grown to believe that they are completely powerless and ignored as far as ICANN goes.
Cartoonz – you pretty much nailed it.
Elliot – Nice comparsion for ICANN vs SEC. Yes, people invest in stocks all the time but really have no idea what the SEC does – same with domain owners and ICANN.
MHB – I’m assuming this post is probably your most popular as far as ICANN posts go sadly enough :-))
Take 10 minutes and watch this… if you don’t already know the history, this is a great primer.
http://www.paradigm.nu/icann/icannstage3.html
Unfortunately, the part after the court hearing is fictional… but everything up to that is dead on accurate.
from wikipedia:
In the Memorandum of Understanding that set up the relationship between ICANN and the U.S. government, ICANN was given a mandate requiring that it operate “in a bottom up, consensus driven, democratic manner.” However, the attempts that ICANN have made to set up an organizational structure that would allow wide input from the global Internet community did not produce results amenable to the current Board. As a result, the At-Large constituency and direct election of board members by the global Internet community were soon abandoned.
THAT is F*cked up!
Spot on with what Cartoonz said. Great words.
I also watch watch Verigisn has to say a majority of the time when checking a lot of what’s going on with ICANN. Let’s not forget them!
Wake UP People – Mike is correct 100% we all need to be fully aware of what Icann are doing.
I have heard people saying Icann are the enemy and lots of other bad things.
Im glad to see those stats from Francois – Im one the people who has said Domaining is my 2nd Business to be correct its actually my 4th Business but still a serious part of my income each and I for one is watching Icann very carefully.
Its good to see a great active discussion here on Icann and get some great thoughts from others.
Regards,
Robbie
Nevertheless, Domaining.com must continue to allow a wide variety of articles to pass through it’s feed to remain relevant, otherwise, what is the point?
I would prefer to censor my news myself, otherwise I might as well head to each individual website to make sure I am not missing out on other news that Domaining.com and other domainers don’t feel is “important”.
How many “great” domainers think anything other than one word generic domains are relevant? Should Francois eliminate Predictive Domaining articles on trends? Those trends usually encompass 2 0r 3 keyword rich domains? What about articles on call to action domains and advertising advances on that front? Apparently considered “spam” by enough readers that domainers are missing out on one of the biggest opportunities to make money in this economy.
How many more ideas are being filtered by those with different agendas or dated directions? I would like Domaining.com to be open to a wide range of possibilities. That’s how this industry will make itself known to the end user…not by censoring ideas that don’t make their readership quota.
How many people understand and read about string theory or nanotechnology? Exactly. Let’s not leave the world in charge of people who still see the world as flat.
Kelly,
I think you and Francois need to get a room and work out whatever issues you have. How many times have I come across a post from you complaining about Domaining.com.
If you want to run the site then buy it from him otherwise Francois will continue to build the site as it fits his future plans … not yours.
Just tired of seeing these posts. This article was about ICANN, not your continued beef with Domaining.com
Denny
In your example you are a doctor.
Your the guy being regulated by ICANN as a domain holder
Alan
You are correct, this is the most read post on ICANN we have had.
Cartoonz
This is the same argument that people have used for not voting.
Why should I vote when all politicians are corrupted?
Why should I vote, when the machines don’t record it properly.
What does my vote really mean in the scheme of things?
Sorry but that just doesn’t cut it.
You can just throw in the towel if your vested in an industry.
Did you submit your comments to ICANN on the new domain extensions when the comment period was opened?
How about last year when they were looking for comments regarding the new registrar agreement?
Hopefully you all commented.
If you didn’t comment however, just like the say if you don’t vote; you can’t complain about them not listening to you if you don’t voice your opinion.
Guys
There are way more than 10 people in the world with a vested stake in ICANN decisions.
There are 1,000 people that read this blog on average everyday.
SO there are many people interested, or involved in the domain space.
This is a business, not a passive investment.
Therefore the analogy to the SEC and shareholders is not valid.
I bet, brokerage companies, and public companies, that are regulated by the SEC, are well aware of SEC rulings and policies and comment and read about proposed changes.
I think Traffic is the place to promote ICANN. Domaining is a land of wannabes who won’t even belly up $25 for a membership. I venture it’s the NamePros crowd, under 18; net worth $100. It’s worthless traffic Mike- not a dollar to be made by you ever there. But you know that or you’d be the masthead advertiser.
Don’t sweat the banning of your posts.
Take your fight to the big boards. Adam Strong and Donna Mahoney and Rick Schwartz and Sahar and Robbie and Elliot (the BIG earners)- they ought to be giving back to the whole community and funding the lobbyist for ICANN.
“Don’t sweat the banning of your posts.”
I don’t think Mike’s posts have been banned. I think the point was that Mike’s important posts about ICANN are read less than joke or comic posts made by others. The point being that people don’t seem to care about the important issues.
===
“Take your fight to the big boards. Adam Strong and Donna Mahoney and Rick Schwartz and Sahar and Robbie and Elliot (the BIG earners)- they ought to be giving back to the whole community and funding the lobbyist for ICANN.”
I don’t think I’ve ever shared my P&L or my tax returns with you (unless you happen to be my accountant posing as someone else), so I don’t think you should be qualifying me or anyone else in this manner. I think that every domain investor has some risk, but depending on the amount of names, quality of names, and other factors, some have more risk than others. If you feel your portfolio is more at risk, than you should take whatever steps are necessary to mitigate the risk.
Are you the same JavierM who is active on the.mobi forum? I would think .mobi and other vanity extensions would be at more risk than .com domain investors, and owners who are heavily invested in those extensions have MUCH more risk than domain owners who own a few dozen generic .com domain names.
Mike,
Your comment “I bet, brokerage companies, and public companies, that are regulated by the SEC, are well aware of SEC rulings and policies and comment and read about proposed changes” is right but remember most domain investors are single people, or small groups without a team of legal on staff who can afford to spend time shuffling through all of the SEC’s news.
In a perfect world yes but that’s where we need groups like ICA to offer more information on a regular basis because most who do consider domaining as a full time job still have limited research abilities – watching all of ICAAN’s news and weeding through the pages of information is something most domainers will get bored with. Maybe due to the nature of the legalese it is sometimes written in or just the inability to see a great affect on their own portfolio or a misguided assumption that ICANN must do whats right (like the SEC and all the organizations who consistently give the public reasons not to trust them)
Elliot wrote “Our best allies are the corporate brand owners who would be significantly impacted as well, but I don’t think they need or want to work with us”
He is probably right.
I guess I don’t mind admitting that I don’t care much about ICANN and maybe other’s feel the same way.
1. I figure there are smarter people than me who know what to look for, where to look, what to say and what to do when it comes to ICANN policy.
2. I don’t know much about policy and politics and don’t understand the jargon.
3. I don’t care much about the FCC, SEC, FAA or other government organizations for the same reasons as above.
For these similar reasons I hire an accountant, a lawyer, a web designer. I don’t know about their world so I let them handle it. With ICANN I let the Mike Berken’s and ICA’s of the world address the issues and I thank you all for watching out for us but from what I have seen, I have not been all that unhappy with ICANN.
So long as ICANN is transparent and open for input then I am comfortable letting people with more talent and interest than me work on ICANN issues.
So, that’s why I don’t care much about ICANN.
Just thought you might like to know.
The point of the original post is that people who regularly read domain blogs, have little interest in even reading about what ICANN is doing.
I still don’t understand the lack of interest.
Taking action, going to meetings, giving money and all the rest is are different issues.
Regarding the new extensions, Elliot is right.
The Fortune 500 companies are to have much more pull than domainers.
However, this post was not about the new extensions (you can read that one separately).
I’m discussing the fact that any post written by anyone, about anything with ICANN in the title, has many less readers than the typical post according to domaining.com which tracks this.
Rob,
Well said.
Alan,
FYI.. I don’t have any problems with Domaining.com. I have used Francois’ services very recently as he will attest to…Now I am wondering why you are getting personal?
Kelly,
It was not personal – it was just a comment regarding how tired I am of reading comments criticizing any filters Francois decides to place on domaining.com. Why you? Its not the first time you posted about this across the blogs or tried to promote Alltop and one or two comments are ok but consistent complaining should be discussed offline between you and the other party.
Mike’s article was about ICANN and why people seem less interested in news from an organization that has the power to make critical decisions which affect the domaining industry and not a suggestion of why Alltop’s feed may be better than Domaining.com’s which you were eluding … again.
At the end of the day these blogs are all privately owned. Top level generic domain names such as domaining.com have no obligation to provide or even relate to the industry which they define – it is up to the owner and only the owner. Many owners welcome crtiques and suggestions as Francois does – however you seem to continually complain why he does not follow your vision of what domaining.com should be.
It was not personal and Mike can edit or delete all our comments relating to this if he so desires. Censorship is fine with me – we all live in a censored world more than we want to admit.
Mike, I never said the apathy was the right move… just answering the question why it is likely there in the first place.
I’m one of those that does read the “boring ICANN posts”
One step that might help (even if it may initially sound “silly”) would be for those providing blogs to our industry to be sure to indicate clearly in their article headlines any actual risks, dangers, and opportunities present with changes in any of their policies, etc.; i.e. “New ICANN Rule to Cripple Domain(ers’) …,” “ICANN Set to Delute …”, “Could Your Comment Turn the Tide?, etc.
It is like a bottom feeder, suck up the our money and do nothing.
Doing less for more!! just like the UN
Alan,
For the record, I think you have me confused with someone else. I don’t post across blogs in general, and certainly not negatively about domaining. In fact, this is the first post that I have ever mentioned Alltop. I love the fact that you can access all kinds of domain related news on Francois’ feed and get a broad picture of the industry.
I am voicing my opinion that I hope it stays that way. Interestingly, so far there are 37 posts on an ICANN related post and counting. If the article and subsequent conversation is interesting and open minded this tends to be the results.
Francois has every right to do whatever he chooses, and I fully support him. Blogs and posts are the venue to give and get feedback and I am sur he appreciates and values all responses.
ok – have a good weekend – this is not the place to further discuss this.
Mike,
I’ll state this again, and I don’t think you can disagree with me …
“And the rest of the ‘domainers’ are just posers hoping to make a rent or car payment with their next flip.”
The reason why most ‘domainers’ don’t care about ICANN is the same reason the house flippers don’t care about the community their next house flip is located – they are in it for the short term, for a fast buck. They’re not interested in community building, laying the foundation for long term growth or ‘giving back’. They just want to make a few bucks and move on.
– Richard
I read many of the threads about Icann, time permitting.
However, one of the problems with Icann is that I feel I have “zero” influence in what happens.
1. Icann doesn’t need my vote. They appoint their own successors.
2. It has been demostrated many times, they don’t listen to what domainers have to say.
3. I have no control over the process when they take my money.
4. It scares the h*ll out of me what would happen if they are not accountable to anyone.
One sign of good hope, is that, it was mentioned today that the Obama staff are planning for a major cyber attack by terroist.
Hopefully they might be less agreeable about signing off on Icann moving to Switzerland.
I am very interested in what ICANN is doing. I follow their blog and read every ICANN article on this blog.
I follow it not because of the few domains I own, but because of their power for driving the direction of the Internet over the next 5, 10, 20 years. To understand what the Internet is to become, we must pay attention to those with power over Internet decision-making. And hopefully, we can provide feedback they can use in their decision making.
Michael, please continue to post on ICANN and I will gratiously read each one.
Conor Neu
Michael – In reading the comments here, I did not see the official ICANN blog listed as a resource for readers. I just discovered it myself and commented there in response to “The Applicant Guidebook” posting made by Kieren McCarthy.
She expresses that community participation around the issue of gTLD’s was significant, and she validated the importance of the public comment time period which allowed stakeholders to share important concerns on the new gTLD’s.
The ICANN blog seems to be another valuable opportunity for domainers to address big issues …
http://blog.icann.org/2009/01/applicant-guidebook-update/
http://blog.icann.org
Max
Thanks for pointing that out
Max,
Pretty sure Kieren is a HE 🙂
Michael,
I don’t read your blog regularly (maybe once every couple weeks and read all the posts at once) unless linked to something important. I do think one of the issues is where we find ourselves getting our news and what we find remarkable. I read a couple forums like a hawk each and every day. I rely on a few key people to provide updates about different topics, when it comes to what ICANN is doing that can affect me I will say George Kirikos probably keeps me the most up to date with what he is writing and posting publicly in the forums about ICANN. Perhaps you could do the same (maybe you do — are you at DomainState?) It would bring more awareness to the issues and maybe a broader set of people.
Kevin Ohashi
Kevin
The point is about my blog. The point was according to domaining.com any post that contains the word “ICANN” written by anyone, get many less clicks and views that any other posts.
I don’t do any of the forums.
Michael,
I understand the point. However, if your goal is to make domainers more aware of the issues and ultimately try and get more participation, perhaps doing some of the forums would be helpful if that is your goal.
Kevin Ohashi