I’m sure you have all read the fine journalistic piece written by Andrew Allemann over at DomainNameWire.com, if not stop go read it and come back.
I have a slightly different take on this ramifications and effect of what Godaddy.com is doing.
Yes they are warehousing domains, in a tricky fashion, which Andrew’s outstanding research discovered.
But there activity much more serious in nature, than simply taking domains for their own benefit.
Godaddy.com action may wind up negatively effecting the entire domain industry and every domainer and here’s why.
To start lets be clear on what Godaddy.com is doing with their expired domains.
After a domain expires Godaddy puts up a landing page and tracks the number of visitors and revenue generated from the domain for a period of 21 days.
Then Godaddy.com sends the domains to its own online auction platform, TDNAM.com.
The minimum bid on most domains at TDNAM is $10.
However in the case of domains that have traffic and revenue (determined by Godaddy while the domain was parked after expiration), they price the domain according to a formulat taking into account the revenue the domain generated while parking. I was told a while back by a Godaddy rep that the number that winds up being the minimum bid, is one years of estimated parking revenue, based off the 3 weeks the domain was parked.
So lets look at an example.
AMISHRECIPES.NET now at auction at TDNAM.
Godaddy reports on TDNAM the estimated number of monthly visitors for each expired domain at auction.
In the case of amishrecipes.net, the domain expired on November 4, 2008.
Godaddy estimates the number of monthly visitors to be 13,099.
Alexa gives the domain a ranking of 1.2M and compete shows it receiving 14K visitors a month so godaddy estimates look bang on.
The opening bid for the domain is $510, taking account the domains estimated revenue (it also has a buy it now at $2,550.
Now here is the problem.
Trademarked domains.
You know the domains we have talked about in the past that are bang on, no brainier trademark domains.
People register these trademarked domains though Godaddy, (nothing Godaddy can do about that part) and when they expire Godaddy follows the same procedure as they do for all expired domains as outlined above.
So lets take a domain that is currently at auction at TDNAM.com, edhardyclothing.com.
Ed Hardy is a world famous designer of well, clothing and shoes.
So the domain, not surprisingly the domain has traffic. According to Godaddy.com the domain gets an estimated 7,226 visitors a month, all looking for Ed Hardy clothing. All the links on the landing page relate to Ed Hardy clothing, shirts, shoes, etc.
If any of us were holding the name we would have the C & D letter in the mail to us or a WIPO or lawsuit coming at us.
So Godaddy is making money as we speak off a trademarked domains.
The domain is parked, the domain is a trademark infringing domain serving up ads for the trademarked products and Godaddy will haul in all the revenue for the domain for the three weeks it was parked.
Now that the domain is at auction, one of three things will occur.
Someone will “but it now” for the $2,550. One or more bidder will bid on the item with an opening bid of $510, or according to Domainnamewire.com the domain will probably if no one bids on it, wind up at Godaddy.com holding company of Standard Tactics.
If the domain sells at auction, Godaddy.com keeps 100% of the proceeds.
So if this domain sells for either the minimum bid or a higher bid though a contested auction, or a buy it now, in essence Godaddy.com is getting paid, upfront for at least one year of traffic to a trademark infringing domain, serving up ads for the trademark product.
Eailer this week another one of these domains, dishnetwork.net sold at TDNAM when a bidder placed the minimum bid of $2,880, for another high traffic name, showing over 4,200 visitors a month, full of ads for Dish Network. (dishnetwork.com is the official site for the satellite company)
Godaddy put $2,880.00 in its pocket for anticipated earnings from the trademark domain, serving up ads on the trademarked terms and then hands the domain over to a new party who will presumably continue the practice.
So to summarize, Godaddy makes parking revenue from the trademark domain for three weeks sticks it in their pocket, then sells the domain at a premium for future earnings off of the trademarked traffic or retains the domain at its sister company if it doesn’t meet reserve at the higher price.
Last summer you may recall that eBay was fined 19.5 Million Euro’s for allowing the sale of fake Louis Vuitton handbags on its site. eBay was also convicted by a French court of selling counterfeit goods and ordered to pay 20,000 euros in damages to French luxury group Hermes.
The rulings were based on the fact that eBay, earns a commission on the sales of counterfeit merchandise and the plaintiff contended that eBay did not do enough to prevent the sale.
CADNA has been making a case in the media that the parking of trademarked domains is equivalent to the selling of counterfeit goods.
We wrote about CADNA’s “education forum” held in London back in June.
In this conference CADNA stated:
This forum brought together brands from across the globe to share collective knowledge, experiences and strategies for combating brand infringement, harmful diversion, phishing and other online abuses such as counterfeiting.
It seems this is the direction CADNA is moving on, and the next legislation, will attack from this angle.
And it seems that the biggest abuser may not be those “little guys” in Eastern Europe but the biggest domain registrar on earth.
Godaddy activities may jeopardize the entire domain industry and could be make CADNA case for new or additional legislation.
Let’s also not forget that a lot of deadon trademark domains are for sale all the time at Godaddy.
Although these domains are not expire or owned by Godaddy, they are for sale on its platform.
Actually one of our readers, listed several of these domains that were then for on TDNAM, in response to our above mentioned June post about CADNA. At that time the reader wrote:
A quick check (5 minutes) at GoDaddy’s TDNAM.com site reveals these for resale in the highest price categories:
AskMicrosoft.com 50K
DisneyStudio.com 50K
KinkosCommercialSolutions.com 50K
JeyBlue.tv 50K
BarclaysCapitalGroup.com 50K
MicrosoftGreen.com 50K
MicosoftAction.com 50K
SonyMobilePhone.com 39K
MTVMusicChannel.com 35K
PacificBell.mobi 29K
CBSnews.us 29k
In actuality what is the difference between eBay allowing the sale of fake trademark protected designer handbags and making a commission off it and godaddy allowing the sale of SonyMobilePhone.com for $39,000 and making a commission off the sale?
None
What is the difference between selling a fake Louis Vuitton handbag out of the back of a truck in Chinatown in New York and selling the domain dishnetwork.net, based on the revenue generated from PPC ads pointed to dishnetwork?
Not much
As you recall, I posted here about GoDaddy selling these same names (AskMicrosoft.com, DisneyStudio.com, etc) a while back.
My question now is why aren’t these trademark holders and their attorneys dragging GoDaddy into UDRP arbitration?
[“What is the difference between selling a fake Louis Vuitton handbag out of the back of a truck in Chinatown in New York and selling the domain dishnetwork.net, based on the revenue generated from PPC ads pointed to dishnetwork?”]
Nothing! GoDaddy is simply enriching themselves on a clever ‘angle’ they came up with, probably not thinking anyone would catch on to it!
Unfortunatly the companies that are being infringed on with these TM names, more than likely don’t even know it’s happening. Also for the ‘few dollars’ that are generated in those 3 weeks time, monetarily wise it may not be worth to them to make a fuss for. GD will gladly make all necessary consessions if they were called on it, and make it out to be just a small glitch in their system or somewhere. (I bet they even have a defense lined up ‘just in case’!) Until TM owners realize this angle is being exploited against them, and finally make a stand to speak out and in court!, GD, and others??, will milk it along!
Great read.
David
Yes I did recall and say a reader posted the domains but did not mention you by name in case you didn’t want me to
Kevin
The companies know that they are being infringed on and they are coming in the form of CADNA a group of large trademark holders
MHB, godaddy is bad… But how about domainers take some responsibility too — domainers are the ones who buy the domains… The dishnetwork and edhardyclothing and tons of others… And those that make risky plays on TM’s… well, there will be consequences.
If nobody would of bidded on this TM’s I am sure godaddy would of kept them, and this is the real reason for going through all the great lenghts of establishing seperate entities and trying to distance themselves… So, what to take from all of this?
GoDaddy = shady company
Domainers = well… even more so perceived as being shady and crooks as people continue to infringe on famous and obvious TM’s and abuse and game the system… GoDaddy is the middlemen and broker and can/should be held accountible but that case is to be argued on a much higher level as its a grey area
So to compare… GoDaddy = bad
domainers = bad x10
no matter how u look at it
and to call them out like this and make a big fuss over this seems logical…sure… but what if we compare some of the domainers with100’s or 1000’s of TM domains… why not?
and what this articles or findings did or will more than anything is further hurt the domain industry… you… and me… and the whole industry as it further shows the abuse and double standards
Mike
Yes and No
Godaddy is the middle man when it come to brokering domains that are owned by third parties.
But they are on the forefront in setting minimum bids on expired domains, trying to get paid for revenue they were never entitled to in the first place.
Because the worst offending domains are high priced, I think no one winds up bidding on most of these and they wind up the “other” godaddy holding company.
Besides who is always more responsible, the guy selling the bags on the streets, or the distributor of the bags?
I’m confused. Seriously, is everyone just figuring out right now that TDNAM lists domains with dead on traffic information for a reasonable price (ignoring TM issues)? I’ve bought a ton of names at GoDaddy w/ Traffic data that always turned out to be dead on. I just stay away from the TM names, as that is GoDaddy’s problem not mine, but as Mike points out I could be wrong, and this could be all of our problems.
I’m glad they have a system of selling us names with traffic data. Its much easier to justify a purchase if it comes with solid numbers. I just wish they could quit being such hippocrits (like I said at DNW) and just admit that they do what they say the don’t do, and for goodness sakes GoDaddy, stop selling those TM names, it is making you look like an idiot, and could cause trouble for everyone.
I’ve watched TDNAM auctions for a while now, and the names that sell for the most money are actually TM names w/ traffic. I think if they cut those out, then their sales revenue would be cut in at least half.
GoDaddy isn’t the only one that sells TM names though. I’ve seen some pretty bad ones go at NameJet too.
Mike
I would do the math in reverse.
Godaddy action do to its prominence in the domain world, speaks 1000X more one fools action.
Unless the “industry” big guys stop the abuse and do it now, the legislation is coming and all will be effected.
No one domainer or groups of domainers can equal the abuse that this one company is doing to the industry.
JP
I have bought somewhere over 7K names through TDNAM over the years.
The problem is not their system, or the stats they provide.
It’s the trademark stuff.
And although namejet.com sells all expired domains they get through their system, the minimum bid is always the same $69.
By having different minimum bids according to the revenue the domain is projected to make, Godaddy is the only one who does this, they are thereby getting paid for trademark PPC income.
The worst the trademark, the more traffic the domain gets and the higher the starting bid is.
Ok, so it is a few groups of well established and funded “companies” doing the most damage as a whole I do agree to a certain extent… But like i said it is a grey area… and it is for ICANN and the courts to decide as GoDaddy isn’t stupid and knows what they are doing is wrong but play odds in their favor most of the time and taking quiet a bit of the risk outta the whole operation… Their cinderella run is probably going to come to an end and I will make a prediciton that within 30 days or less they will implement some sort of filters to rid of some of the most obvious TM’s…
but like it or not, tm’s and domain abuse will always exist in our name space — there just isn’t one solution to solve this problem if there was it would of been done already… as for any progress to get this under control — I do not see any in any of the most recent years either
“godaddy is bad… But how about domainers take some responsibility too — domainers are the ones who buy the domains…”
Not everyone who registers trademark infringing domains
is a domainer.
Some are cybersquatters NOT domainers.
The two should not be confused.
They know better but don’t care.
Some are newbie domainer wannabes who don’t really
know any better.
GoDaddy certainly knows better.
@MHB
Very good point, GoDaddy is charging a markup for TM names and NameJet isn’t. That certainly doesn’t look good.
@Mike @ WannaDevelop
You are totally right too. TM names will always be out there, and people will always be making money on them, and good for those people. The thing is when a giant like GoDaddy is doing it I feel we can expect a major response from those that work to protect TMs in the domain space. Lets just hope the reprocussions fall only on GoDaddy, and not the rest of us.
I’m also sure as you are that GoDaddy isn’t stupid, and this was a calculated risk. They’ve been profiting off this for so long, I imagine no matter how much they could be fined for this, it won’t even come close to what they’ve made on it.
Mike
TM will always exist but the penalties and exposure for violation are going to go up, way up and when it does its going to be the fault of Godaddy more than 100 domainers.
JP
When you say GD isn’t stupid, that’s one of those true and not true deals.
If this Wall Street meltdown has taught us anything is that some very smart, well financed people make some very stupid decisions which come back not just to haunt them but many others as well.
MHB, you make good points…
By bringing this issues up, GoDaddy will now be facing some tough decisions and will have to make them right away..the sooner the better…although they do have a track record of putting their own spin on things and ignoring the facts.
As for domainers and cybersquatters or typosquatters…. It’s all the same thing to the general public and blog community or if u go to any of the 1000s of other forums that exist… They all think of domainers and cybersquatters because the most damage was done along time ago and getting rid of this label is just not going to happen.
As for the first post, made by David Castello…
why arent the trademark holders such as disney, dish network, etc…. are taking them into udrp?? uhh, becuase they arent aware of the infringement and that this is actually happening… if they were, a UDRP wouldn’t even be required as all it would take a simple e-mail or phone call from their legal counsel and within 1 hour or less the domain would be handed over. This is how this stuff works.
Corporate america just doesn’t get domains… they dont get DOMAIN BRANDING and DOMAIN TYPE IN TRAFFIC… u expect them to understand what DOMAIN TYPOS ARE?? and what risks they pose and how much money losses they involve or damage is actually causing? ha……
Mike
“””As for domainers and cybersquatters or typosquatters…. It’s all the same thing to the general public””
Unfortunately you are correct.
That is the fact as we are perceived in the general public but I’m trying to separate out the good from the bad and maybe at some point the general public will notice the difference
MHB, collectively if we all try to make it work and get the message out we can build a much stronger and prosporeus industry which many of the key players and heavy domain investors already know and envisioned years ago… but what is the message that we need to get out there? i dont think there has ever been a good site or resource setup to even explain what good domains are all about and some of the advantages and what bad domains are as well… We need to showcase and provide examples with explanations and statistics as well as facts… We need to show domain success stories when good domains were put to good use online as well as when domains used improperly and what the consequences are… Risks… etc.
That should of been done years ago… better late than never tho and maybe one day there will be a “universal” resource that will actually make sense of domains and try to cover some of the most important information that has to do with them for both consumers and businesses
Mike
Agreed the industry could have used a good public relations firm a long time ago, but we barely have enough money to keep a industry representative group around.
Many of the blogs, highlight great uses of domain, including this blog, however the general public isn’t reading these stories and good stories are never as juicy as one’s filled with dirt
MHB, like i said it is never late…we’re still in early stages of the internet if you think about it and the domain boom is alive and well just not as hot as it used to be say 5 yrs ago… unfortunately the people and companies involved each have their own agenda and interests and joining forces and organizing anything productive just hasn’t happened yet… The only person who had success on a decent level is Rick Schwartz by organizing like 15 domain conferences for a few years now — now that is impressive!
Need to organize, and execute…..in order to get results.
When times get hard, this is forced upon people…no questions asked — not really an option so…when things get tough on domainers when domain parking is killed off by Google or domain valuations really decrease because of technological advances… only then I see any community efforts to solve some of the problems that exist… As for doing this now..the timing just isn’t right unfortunately and while the blogs do serve a purpose… good to raise awareness but It’s not the best way to call for action and rally an industry of 1000’s of professional domainers/investors and 10,000 or so of up and comers
*
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
GoDaddy sells you a TM domain for, say, $2,000.
The TM holder files a UDRP. The domain gets handed over to the TM holder.
GoDaddy says, “Too bad,” and pockets the money.
Is that how it works?
*
Ms
Exactly
The same way with the .me names which is the registry owned by godaddy.
porche.me sold by the godaddy owned registry for $7500 and lost in a WIPO action
Godaddy keeps the money
Domain goes to the trademark holder
http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2008/dme2008-0002.html
Mike @ WannaDevelop.com:
You’re telling me that Disney, one of the largest holders of generic domains (and I’m talking huge names like Movies.com), is not aware of the domain name industry?
And you also think that Disney is unaware of UDRP arbitration?
Read: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2001/d2001-0489.html
Of course they are. And that’s why it makes no sense to me that they aren’t going after GoDaddy.
I wonder to what extent GoDaddy are aware of the negative attention this is creating. Lots of news about this at the moment so it must be flashing bright on the radar. Damage control better kick in fast. Especially in reference to the ones Michael listed…
A quick check (5 minutes) at GoDaddy’s AskMicrosoft.com 50K
DisneyStudio.com 50K
KinkosCommercialSolutions.com 50K
JeyBlue.tv 50K
BarclaysCapitalGroup.com 50K
MicrosoftGreen.com 50K
MicosoftAction.com 50K
SonyMobilePhone.com 39K
MTVMusicChannel.com 35K
PacificBell.mobi 29K
CBSnews.us 29k
GoDaddy, remember iReit?
David J Castello — they are a huge company and I would hope that by now they know and act accordingly if need be with a UDRP and other measures…however most of the companies still have their heads up their ass and do not know all of the things I mentioned specifically things that have to do with internet advertising/marketing… which include domain and brand abuse via typo and cyber squatting, internet branding as a whole, search engine optimization and the list goes on.
As for dragging anybody into the UDRP…. why should they proceed with a complaint against GoDaddy and not the current owner of the domain who registered the domain or one who originally owned and sold it via an aftermarket site??
*
MHB,
Wow, what a sweet deal for GoDaddy!
I think I’d like to become a registrar!
😉
*
We are now seeing the long term strategy of registrars come to fruition. Their plan was and is, very similar to ranchers of the wild west. First put up barb wire fences on as much land as they possibly could and then wait for someone to claim their slice of the pie. Knowing full well that many forms of attrition would eventually make the land theirs.
In this particular scheme, that go daddy is using they have devised nothing more than a well publisized forum for BLACK MAIL. The barbarians at The gate ! WOW, MHB Thanks for the post !!
Like David Castello, I posted EXPLICIT examples of GoDaddy TM infringements in their TDNAM lists about seven weeks ago:
http://www.successclick.com/godaddy-trademark-infringement-watch_2008_10_16/
I really don’t understand why Microsoft, the main subject of my article, hasn’t lowered the boom legally on Godaddy for this BLATANT TM infringing attempt to capitalize on MS’s trademarks. I hate to say this… but does having MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR LEGAL FEES SCARE TM HOLDERS FROM SUING TM DOMAIN INFRINGERS? I’d say GoDaddy has plenty of cash to rep themselves in any TM legal issue. I’d hate to think that this fact makes TM holders hesitate…
Too bad most of us can’t say the same. However, GoDaddy, as usual, is not active in the Domain Industry community, so giving CADNA what they want by selling obvious TM infringing domains is really not their concern. They have the money for their defense, while making the rest of us look like we’re complacent or even fellow conspirators by participating in using TDNAM in buying domains, thereby supporting GoDaddy’s effort to cash in on TM domains.
DO NOT BUY TM DOMAINS FROM GODADDY, OR ANYONE.
What a colourfull post – this is interesting – HOT post for sure
From time to time, I’ll jump into a discussion like this with a brief post on trademarks. Newbies may hear about poor registration choices they have made, but rarely do I see simple rules that I believe would eliminate virtually all obvious TM issues. I am not a patent or trademark attorney and this information is not intended as legal advice, but it’s probably not a bad starting point when considering a domain name registration.
_________________________________________________
GENERAL RULE:
Any domain name registered that is intended to benefit from and/or derives its strength, value or desirability from a third party’s protected mark (registered or otherwise) could lead to legal problems if the domain name registered is similar or identical to that third party’s protected mark.
In other words, with few exceptions, if you are registering a domain name that meets the description above in order to ride the coattails of popularity generated by the investment, hard work and efforts of another party– DON’T!
_________________________________________________
Even generic domain name registrations can cause legal problems. Although registered trademark status is not generally extended by the USPTO* to generic descriptive names, the same generic word or term can be registered as a trademark for a product or service for which it is not generically descriptive.
Example:
“LAGER” as an exclusive trademark for a malt beverage product: USPTO registration unlikely.
“LAGER” as an exclusive trademark for bicycles and structural parts and fittings: USPTO registration granted reg. no. 3393468.
For these reasons, I include the following language as a disclaimer in any sale of generic domain names:
DISCLAIMER: A generic or descriptive domain name that does not infringe on the rights of a third party may potentially do so if the Buyer and/or End User subsequently uses the domain name for a specific class of goods or services in which a third party had previously acquired trademark protection for a similar or identical name. Seller specifically disclaims any and all liability in the event of such subsequent domain name use by Buyer and/or End User. For issues or concerns relating to domain name usage subsequent to sale, Buyer and/or End User should first seek the advice of a trademark attorney before entering into this or any domain name purchase transaction.
So even if you register a generic domain name, if your intent is to benefit from the efforts of a third party that uses the generic name as a trademark in a generically non-descriptive manner, you run the risk of legal action. In addition, there are some trademarks that are so famous that use of these particular marks for any class of goods or services will result in a claim of infringement. This posting is not, in any way, intended to be a comprehensive or exhaustive treatment of domain and trademark law. If in doubt about domain and trademark legal issues, contact a trademark attorney.
Moving on…
There ought to be an automated TM red flag splash screen when a buyer is completing the purchase of a domain name that is clearly high risk. Based on my having listed domain names with GoDaddy’s premium domain name reseller service (not TDNAM), they already appear to have a database that flags (and removes) potential infringing domains. It seems to me this same database could be accessed for all Godaddy transactions.
Last comment: I think as an industry, we can sometimes help turn the tide as domainers by taking steps that clearly show our good faith. In the past, I have registered high profile TM domains with the express intention of immediately contacting the owner and transferring the name without any expectation of reimbursement. The last time I did this was when an author gave a radio interview to promote a new book. The listening audience numbered in the millions, so as a fan of the show, I made an unsolicited defensive registration of the book title. I sent an email that evening and talked with the author the next day. The domain name has since been transferred.
It doesn’t even require that a domain be bought or that money be expended. Sometimes when going over traffic stats I will discover a domain, that contains a TM, with a huge Wordtracker daily total. Dropping a brief email to the TM holder or its representative to let them know what was discovered is, IMO, good for everybody. Maybe we could collectively forward these kinds of notices to CADNA!
My point is, that without a great deal of extra effort, it wouldn’t be too difficult to show another side of the domaining community. Plus, this kind of activity could create a paper trail that might be prove helpful for determining intent someday. Who knows? – A few good deeds every now and then could have a positive cumulative impact.
*(United States Patent & Trademark Office – uspto.gov)
Great post ESLLC!
—–
I clearly didn’t read the DNW article properly when I skimmed over it and missed the whole part about trademark names… Definitely don’t agree with any registrar doing that, especially a registrar which claims to be taking the moral high ground on other unscrupulous behavior (eg. kiting).
If Godaddy is contacted by a company and is asked to remove their trademarked names from TDNAM they do it. The issue is, which has most likely already been stated, is that these companies have no idea Godaddy is selling their trademarked names. There are only a few companies that are ‘domain’ savvy. For example Yahoo would contact TDNAM on what seemed like a weekly basis and ask them to remove their trademarked domains. Godaddy would always comply and that was the end of it. Yahoo didnt try and sue Godaddy for it, as Yahoo thought that it was Godaddy’s customers who were listing the domain names on its auction platform, and most of the time it was.
Another issue for Godaddy is that even if somebody told them to stop selling TM’ed names, it would be pretty difficult to stop. They have tens of thousands of domain names that expire and are sent to be auctioned off every week. They would have to somehow implement filters that automatically remove any TM’ed names as it is definitely too much work for a human to do. The problem is, Godaddy couldn’t possibly add all possible trademarks into this filter. Think of how many businesses there are in the world that have their name trademarked. Millions.
Another issue is that Godaddy is not the only company selling trademarked domains and profiting from them. Go to any of the top aftermarket sites (sedo, namejet, afternic, snapnames, etc) and type in Yahoo and see what pops up. Granted I think Godaddy is the only one that is smart enough (or dumb enough) to profit from the traffic that the names get, then keep profiting from the traffic that they receive under the standard tactics alias.
How I see it, nothing will change anytime soon. This is just now an issue that is being raised and this has been happening since TDNAM’s inception in 2002. On the other hand all it would take is for somebody to sue TDNAM and change things…..
Mike,
I’ll throw this idea out on a saturday morning….. what if GoDaddy or any registrar had a mandatory TM screen for all primary doman registrations, (and i’ll conceed that is a big TBD definition) but lets also conceed that a domain like askmiscrosoft.com or disneystudio.com would be flagged by even the most rudimentary review.
I have never understood how a registrar is able to throw up its hands and say it has no control over what domains are registered via their system. That’s completely laughable. Controls are implemented for the sale of beer, cigarettes, cold medicine (here in LA b/c of crytsal meth), spray paint (here in LA b/c of taging) why not TM domains?
Let’s continue on that analogy and look at undrage drinking as an example of a parallel problem. Does it seem fair to only penalize the 17 year old who tries to buy beer for his friday night out? No, the liquor store owner, who looks the other way… and doesn’t ask for ID because he wants the sale, is the gatekeeper and should be MORE (or at least mutually) responsible for the problem in this example.
The same holds true with registrars. create some controls around domain registration, akin to a liquor store asking for ID on that sixer of Bud.
We could deal with this problem by moving upsteam to stem the flow of TM domains at the primary registration (registrar) level. Anyone attempting to purchase a domain with a pre-determined list of MSFT/Disney/Dell product names (subject to review) must supply a security key to complete the transaction, or some similar safeguards. The registrar must be held responsible at that point.
If the primary TM registrations don’t occur in the first place, the drop stream profiteering goes away.
Now back to my weekend….
I wonder how much of a problem false positives would be in an automated screening process. That would certainly be an irritating new problem.
GoDaddy already has an automatic TM filter integrated into its “Premium Listings” aftermarket sales program:
http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/premium/landing.asp?ci=9621
“Only available for .COM, .NET and .ORG domain names.
Names that promote gambling or other vices, are adult-themed, trademarked (or misspelled trademarks) or use words or abbreviations not found in the English dictionary will not be accepted.”
Given the above definition. the filter is over-inclusive and paints with a very broad stroke. Nevertheless, as I indicated above, this database already exists, so it’s difficult to understand how a domain name can be summarily rejected here for possible TM issues but accepted within TDNAM.
Chris
Its seems like a reasonable idea which I have floated on this board.
Godaddy seems to have interest in dealing in any fashion to prevent trademarked domains.
In case you missed it a few month ago we found them actually doing a certified appraisal on a trademarked domain, cnnnews.tv
I mean if they don’t even have a clue to the point where someone is sitting on Godaddy’s payroll doing the manual work it takes to do a certified appraisal, then publish it and send it to the holder of the domain and can’t figure out somewhere along the way that it maybe a trademark violation, how can we hope that they will ever wake up.
http://www.thedomains.com/2008/09/06/tdnam-trademarks-godaddy-hits-a-new-low-and-action-must-be-taken/
MHB,
You are exactly right. And to take it one step further, for argument’s sake, let’s go ahead and allow the certified appraisal for non-generic domain names:
For anyone other than the actual TM holder, the certified appraised value should technically be $0.00!
Mike @ WannaDevelop.com
The reason that Disney, Microsoft, etc should go after GoDaddy is simple.
GoDaddy is currently doing more than anyone I know to spread the word to the ignorant and greedy that these TM violations are worth big money.
Moniker and every other auction house wouldn’t touch these with a ten foot pole, but when you have someone with the name recognition of GoDaddy openly promoting these names with a value of 50K it leads the ignorant and greedy to think that it is perfectly ethical to acquire these names.
Remember, to kill a snake you cut off its head…
David Is correct.
This is the world’s largest domain registrar.
This is the domain registrar whose clients average just over 1 domain a person.
This is the registrar who advertises on the SuperBowl (announced this week they will do so again this week.) to get business from the general public who is uninformed about trademark laws.
When the average Joe see’s the Superbowl ad, goes to the site and see’s 20 infringing domain listed for sale for $50K, guess what, they think its OK and they register some of their own and list them for sale.
It’s a never ending cycle, all at the door of Godaddy
What a weekend… 😉
Well, the PR for the domain industry isn’t going to happen…like ever…there is just too much bad and things really need to be sorted out before such an effort could be seriously deployed…but I got another idea as I was talking to one of my colleagues;
Domain Watchdog Group
or it can be called
Domain Watch Group
or… something else catchy and to the point
It can be setup in a form of a blog… Individuals who are against registrar abuse and everything else that hurts the domain industry as a whole can point this out.
As for getting results… All domain registrars have staffed customer service support centers and the abuse department is one that is closely monitored by higher up managements and superiors with key rolls — a simple e-mail with some of the abuses that could be outlined in a blog post would be enough to get some sort of action.
As for individuals who abuse disney, msft, yahoo TM’s and infringe on this very famous and obvious marks time and time over and over again… Another blog post about this, and another e-mail to the legal counsel and that should get the ball rolling.
This is really the best and only option I could of come up with. If somebody is interested in actually pursuing something like this… Please e-mail me with subject “watchdog”
Mike
“”””””It can be setup in a form of a blog… Individuals who are against registrar abuse and everything else that hurts the domain industry as a whole can point this out.”””””
This is what I’m doing on this blog
MHB, there needs to be more people involved with this effort — you do a great job and it’s one of the best blogs when it comes to domains…but… many individuals and companies who got much more to lose than gain need to be involved too…and they are not
if anybody is interested in setting up a “domain watchdog group” and layout rules or guidelines and so on…
http://www.domainwatchers.org
@ D. Castello – “…when you have someone with the name recognition of GoDaddy openly promoting these names with a value of 50K it leads the ignorant and greedy to think that it is perfectly ethical to acquire these names.”
Very good point. There is a standard of decent behavior in place, and all upstanding business is against TM infringement …as they should be. GoDaddy, nor any reputable registrar, should risk riding the fence on this issue. One is either on the right side or wrong side of it – no in between.
It’s inevitable that GoDaddy will cease reselling/auctioning off TM domains. There is no other correct decision here except to stop doing it. Their reputation will suffer, and they will become the focus of lawsuits and overwhelmingly negative media attention very shortly unless they eliminate the practice. They are operating somewhat as a fence for stolen goods (figuratively speaking). They’re not stealing, but furthering the crime.
UPDATE
The domain edhardyclothing.com now has one bid on it at $6,880 at TDNAM
*MHB
MINDBOGGLING. (edhardyclothing.com bid at $6,880 on TDNAM)
And very destructive to legit domainers to clean up our industry. Where is ICANN on this? Hell, where are Ed Hardy’s attorney’s on this? Somebody should make a phone call!!
You know what is REALLY SICK?
GoDaddy is placing ringers to post on this blog and “innocently” offer discount coupons to try and lure customers from this thread DOGGING THEM!
How do I know? Because Michael deletes them, (smartly), but his feed pushes them to my email address before they’re deleted from his blogsite. So anyone on THEDOMAINS.COM feed can see what comments are coming in and accepted or not accepted.
The sickening, blatant exploitation by Godaddy of NEGATIVE PRESS is genius. Just place a few comments within the blog that entices readers to GO RIGHT TO THE REGISTRAR WE’RE COMPLAINING ABOUT AND REGISTER DOMAINS USING DISCOUNT COUPONS!
I don’t know about you guys, but this just cements it in my mind that Godaddy uses sick f*ck tactics to take advantage of anyone wanting to buy domains…
It’s beyond disgusting.
Since you are bringing up go daddy, I’ll also share my recent findings for Godaddy.com coupons. I am a Marketing Strategy Consultant, and these discounts come in very handy when purchasing or renewing an internet domain name. Use Godaddy promo code ZINE3 for $7.49 .com domains and renewals. I save about $15 every time I pick up a group of domains. When I buy at least five domains, I also get free private registration when I use ZINE3. For other Godaddy coupons, use ZINE1 for 10% off, ZINE2 for $5 off any $30+ purchase, and ZINE25 for $25 off any purchase of $100 or greater, like hosting plans. These promo codes are current, working, and do not expire. Hope these Godaddy.com promo codes save as much dough for the other blog subscribers as they have for me. So long! -Regine from McBrides, MI.