When Rick Schwartz announced that there would be a multiple auction format for the first time at TRAFFIC and that Rick Latona and Aftermarket would be holding competing auctions, a funny thing happened in the domain community.
Well actually not funny.
Actually really sad.
I read on numerous board and blogs that Moniker was going to get their “ass kicked”.
I read how the auction game had changed and someone new, was going to show Moniker how an auction should be run.
That the king was dead and they all hailed the new king.
The hype had begun.
Now before we get ahead of ourselves Rick Latona and Aftermarket did a fine job and their auctions did well for a first effort (you can read my full review in a post a few days ago). SO TO BE CLEAR THIS IS NOTHING AGAINST RICK LATONA OR AFTERMARKET).
What upsets me is how this community was so willing, and in some cases actual expressing joy, at the prospect of Moniker tanking and the new guys soaring past them.
Many threw Moniker right under the bus.
Cast them off as also-rans.
Moniker has held domain auctions for a few years, generating tens of millions in dollars in sales for the industry, putting a lot of money into domainers pockets and increasing the value of all our domains by proving the liquidity to the market.
You think proofing liquidity is not important?
Check out the stock market.
Despite the track record of Moniker, so many in this industry thought that a company that had never held an auction, never sold a dollar’s worth of domains at a auction, would beat the hell out of Moniker.
In a poll we ran for a week more than 1/2 the participants thought that one of the new auction would generate more sales than moniker.
In my world, I reward those who have performed.
I appreciate those who have moved the industry forward, increased the value of domains and thereby putting money in my pocket.
Past performance is important. Very Important.
Those who have succeeded and moved the industry forward deserve our thanks and our respect.
They have earned it.
They deserve enjoy the position they have earned.
I welcome all newcomers, and cheer for their success.
But I will not anoint them to the top of the pyramid until they have performed and proved themselves to be worthy of that position.
If the new guy proofs to be the best then, and only then, will we say “the king is dead all all hail the new king”.
Finally you should never hope, wish or even secretly be rooting for someones failure.
Someones failure will not help you, it will only hurt you and the industry.
Well said…
To be fair the quality Moniker offered in NY, IMHO, was significantly higher than in their other auctions this year and Rick did do one hell of a job for his first live auction.
That said I agree that it is juvenile at best to wish for someone’s failure especially those who have done so much to shine light on the value of domains and who do so consistently.
Perfectly Said…
My only comment on these auctions ” Domainers get Auction Reserve Sqweeze ” There is not an end user in sight at these auctions. TRUTH
Great post.
The downside of people is that they like to see their own kind suffer (especially the people that are good and do not deserve the pain).
The people in the Domain Name Business SHOULD have ONE Goal in common and that is to work together and get more people into the domain name Game.
Rick Schwartz, Monte C. and others you have done very well.
You have helped others get what they wanted and by doing so you have also gotten what you want.
The domain name game has ONLY just begun.
Well said, Michael.
“rooting for someone’s failure” always ends up backfiring.
Nice post!
Live domain auctions are not a necessity. They’re an organized event and an entertainment, but they are not a necessity.
There’s some irony to “live domain auctions”. The essence of domains/the Web is ubiquity, virtualization, automation and disintermediation. Everyone can “be” anywhere. Transaction costs or the cost of “the middle man” should be driven to near zero. Yet we debate people choosing sides.
The brouhaha about being pro- or con- Moniker is entertaining but doesn’t it miss the real point?
Why are transaction costs still so high? Is there value to the auctioneer other than entertainment value? You mean one of us couldn’t cajole the others?
And, other than liquidity, are live auctions no really helping the market at this point? Are the values helping to drive down enduser estimates or the impression of enduser value?
I’m not certain live auctions will be around much longer. The may help some folks deal with cash or liquidity issues in a down market, but – really – if liquidity is the principal “plus” isn’t Rick Latona already doing a good job of expanding that market force by simply emailing domain lists to known purchasers?
Something just seems a bit off.
I was hoping to see Bido get some legs. Maybe Sahar will stage a comeback. Maybe Rick Latona and Sahar can play nicely together?
Something just seems either a bit broken or a bit fogged up for us to be focused on the “whose side are ya on” issue when the real issue is “what’s next, ’cause this ain’t it”.
Or at least I hope it’s not it. Not that live domain auctions are bad. They’re just a bit of an oddity.
Okay, I give up. Their real value IS/WAS their entertainment value. So let’s dump the auctioneer and hire a stand-up comic to hawk them next time.
Maybe more people will stay in the room or watch live . . and maybe that will lead to more people bidding . . and maybe if it’s a really good comic then even non-domainers will login to “see the show” . . and . .
“Do/(Say about) others as you will want others to do/(say about) you”
It is possible that people simply voiced a general frustration with one of the only shows in town. Moniker have not increased the value of domains unless I am out of touch and they now advertise outside the domainer circle. “deserve our thanks and our respect” I reserve that for individuals that do far more for a lot less in any number of social services.
Think your being overly righteous .
You know, I’ve been beaten like a mangy dog with the short sticks of many a wannabe domain investor for defending people in this industry. I can name one forum in particular, but I won’t. (They’ll see this comment anyway and start a thread, or maybe not).
Moniker has years of experience, has weathered their storms, and now have a powerhouse company behind them along with a sister company (Snapnames.com) to join forces with. If I thought that Moniker was going to “flatline” in this auction, I would have reported it way beforehand as news. However, no evidence proving this came to light. Aftermarket.com and Rick Latona’s auction did well, and there’s no reason why all can’t operate successfully in the same room.
Congrats to all, and I’m looking forward to future growth in this area, where the auction producers start to limit their domains to a certain category, then contact the industry publications to promote the auction domains to the end users of that category, along with some nice news releases.
Auctions are run at the mercy of many factors including the economy and the quality of the property being auctioned. In my opinion, Moniker is the best in the domain business. No domain has ever been stolen there. Customer service and pricing are excellent. They pioneered domain auctions. Now, with the Oversee merger, they offer a completely integrated solution. Nothing against anyone else, but Moniker has consistently performed at such a high level that they have earned my trust.
There has been little discussion of why the end sale values are dropping precipitously. The valuations of domains have a direct correlation to a concerted effort to beat down reserve prices. MANY fine names never saw their way to auction because their reserves were thought to be to high by the powers that be, Auction Reserve Sqweeze Play, and domainers wonder why valuations that are being manipulated in this fashion are coming down? ENOUGH!
Jeff
Except that none of the domains that made it into the auction above $1M sold.
None
And only a handful sold for over $100K.
The market determines the price.
Financialaid.com is a great example. It started with a reasonable reserve and was sold.
If it started at $2M it would have sat unsold with the rest.
What to get $1M for a domain, the 400 smartest and wealthest domainers think is only worth $100K, then get you butt out on the street and find and end user.
MHB – Whatever your cover
AUCTIONS are not open and free markets by definition. Any thought that the current auction market place is a free and open market, has little to do with reality.
Jeff
Why isn’t the moniker auction opened to all.
Remote bidding is available to all and open to the world, domainers and non-domainers alike.
Plus many of the domain did in fact sell remotely including the highest one financialaid.com
Yep never do.
Well said, someone should be at the Letterman show and talk about domains.
Acutally I had a bad experience with Rick Latona. I would never hire him to sell my names. The guy has a bad attitiude. Moniker is much more professional.
I would guess within a year Moniker and Rick will be on Par.
Moniker had a larger inventory and track record, but no one in the industry seems as forward thinking, agressive and entreprenurial as Rick.
He has done an awesome job with his newsletter and he actually is going out and trying to gather the attention of the end user with ads in webite magazine, internet retailer, etc.
I would bet my money, he will continue in this direction and bridging the gap to bring other folks into the market.
I think the one major issue these guys face is timing and pr. They wait to long to publish their lists, dont target specific audiences or niches and simply have too many domains being sold.
I would think if they could get more theme specific you would see better results and more end users step up to the plate.
That being said, the results were solid and I think you will continue to see domainers follow the development path and the dollars follow in this direction from an investment perspective
MHB – Who ever you are?
The Moniker auction decision to exclude from their auction, all names they deem to have too high reserve prices, by definition, is NOT OPEN TO ALL !
When you restrict the amount of good quality names from the auction how can they possibly be included in the market pricing dynamics. You nor I can fairly price something that is not available. Look I am trying to point out a structural flaw in excluding good quality names. Lets hope someone is listening so the next auction can have a higher mean value.
We all want to see higher market valuations dont we?
Jeff –
MHB is the admin al la Michael. Though I find it funny to watch the banter, I will help you save some face.
Jeff
We only see higher valuations when we see sales.
having an auction of 250 domains none of which sell because they are priced too high does not help
Seeing domains with no reserve sell for $100K does help
Knowones political position can change the truth in what I say. I will stand by my position based in market realities not spin. Marketing principles trump spin. Thank You for all being so open minded.
Jeff, the auctions themselves are open to all and thus provide free markets. You are confusing the selection process with the auction process. Sucky names don’t get picked – even good names don’t get picked. I submitted 10 for the latest auction and 1 made it… expohalls.com with a $1500 reserve. Even that may be overvalued, the market will determine if it sells. BUT, if it does sell, the validity of its worth on the day it sold is accurate. You can take your 4 P’s and try to use Promotion to up the Price, but the Product remains set as does the Place which is open to all.
I am sure we would all have a nice chuckle at some valuations we owners put on our “gold”. In the end, there are only 3 things that matter…1) type in traffic, 2) brandable, or 3) use it for SEO. Otherwise, just go out at get any domain at reg fee – marketing principles only matters after the fact if your domain fails to meet any of these 3 (NO, I did not say all of these 3). If I missed any, please add commentors…
No, I think those three pretty much have all the bases covered. Although I do think that #2 is often overlooked or undervalued because of the intense focus on #’s 1 & 3.
Jeff, I personally love your passion and desire to jump in and start fighting for domain values! But dude, Greg did you a HUGE favor by pointing out that you’re arguing with one of the most respected domainers in our industry, MHB. That’s cool, he is buff enuff to handle the heat, but try and find out the ID’s of people who are at least near the top before asking them “whoever you are”. 😉
I already put my two cents in… basically, domain auctions have to become theme-oriented and pound the end user industries through publications and market-specific advertising to really be fair to the domain SELLERS.
Otherwise, domainers like myself and many others who have mid-range domains are going to be forced to sell to other domainers for way less than the domains are worth. This is a “market yield” fact, but that “market” is controlled by the top domain producers, including Moniker, Snapnames, Aftermarket.com, Afternic and Sedo, to name a few. That’s not to disparage any of the above mentioned auction producers, it’s just point out a logical marketing fact:
“If you don’t use a Duck Call, you aren’t getting any webbed feet and feathers at your pond”
So, my request again to the auction producers is:
THEME AUCTIONS, MARKETING, AND SOME EFFORT TO BRING REAL VALUE TO MID-RANGE DOMAINS WITH INFORMATION IN NEWS RELEASES
Invest a few bucks, people.
I have taken into consideration all of your comments. I also want to thank you MHB for not censoring my opinions, I respect you for that.
I still believe that low or no reserve auctions attract low or no value domains and therefore attract low valuations. Economics never listen to politics. My last position is Auction reserve sqweeze plays= low or no reserve names which ultimately yield low auction values= Lower mean values, which means we all lose, unless you happen to be a buyer?
Jeff and others…the one thing we all forget (or maybe not) is that each domain is truly unique. You do not have to sell yours. The reason some sell for “undervalue” is because you, teh seller, the buyer, and other bidders and non-bidders all valued differently.
We all check DNjournal each week and I know we say “what the heck” at some of the names and “what a deal” at others. It is that “what the heck” time and again that makes us all think we have gold – me included.
Greg
You make a great point about the subjective and highly unpredictable art of valuing domains that the marketplace or autions exclude from being eligible for auction.
Take Ireport.com , just imagine if Rick Schwartz a year ago , before big sale, entered it on an auction format with a reserve price of 200k and auction Pooh Bahs rejected it , and by the way in my opinion they would have, how in the world would it sell when it is witheld from the marketplace.
How many fine names never reach the gavel? This cherry picking goes on constantly. I contend that an open and free marketing system for names would be far superior in establishing true market values of our cyber assets(domain Addresses)
Until an open and free marketplace exists, we are all blowing in the wind.
Jeff –
An open free market where no restrictions exists on acceptance is unrealistic for many reasons but the 2 most obvious reasons being…1) massive supply of domains (in fact, there are still unreg’d domains that are much much better than some people’s “gems”) and 2) the unwillingness of the seller to list at the prices that this supply create.
Unless your domain has type-in traffic or you have developed a traffic source and hopefully add monetization, there is no verifiable or accountable economic/financial numbers in which to create a value. In such case, the name relies on brandability or future development – hard work.
Additionally, there are only so many companies who will ever create a mega-brand. Even Digg, twitter, etc are not mega-brands.
The sale of ireport.com and all others is a game of patience and brilliance and art. Had I owned that name, it would have sold for probably $25,000 even knowing it was used at CNN. Why? because Rick is a better seller of premium domains – guaranteed.
Gotta close. Need to work.
Greg-
An open and free market place, where no exclusions exist is exactly what we all need to happen to fairly price domain names. Your insistence that it is impossible, doesnt smell right. This sounds like an argument the ole boys club would make, dont get me wrong I am not accusing you of being one.
Until the current auction system opens up and really solicits and encourages madison avenue and all others to participate. We as domain owners will suffer manipulatively low valuations that the current club members are now enjoying.
I also understand that because you believe in your stated convictions above, that an open and free market place is folly, and it is follyto believe that the current auction system comes close to being a fair pricing system. You probably would have been forced into selling Ireport.com for 25,000$. That is a shame, and what does that tell us all about the current system in place?
I am not sure how you can value unique assets for which there are just 1 exact of each yet numerous variations on a truly open high supply marketplace with limited dollars in the current market.
Regarding ireport.com – I would argue $750k was Ricks price, $25k was Greg’s price. The only thing to determine these values was the buyer and seller and the willingness of each to walk away. Some have a much greater walk-away threshhold.