A bit of a new spin on the old appraisal scam, a reader sent us an email he received, for a law related domain, three word.com that makes sense, has value.
Hello!
I represent a big investor from UK. He needs personal*******.com for his new business project to be launched in September, 2015. Your domain name is at the top of his shortlist of names, and he would be prepared to pay up to US$10,000 to secure this domain name.
Time is of the essence as he needs to secure the domain name as soon as possible, so his Corporate Communications department can prepare the relevant logos and letterheads. I am available to discuss this transaction at your earliest convenience.I look forward to your reply.
If you have more domain names for sale, please email me the list. I may help you to find buyers for them.
Regards,
Micahel
Domain Lawyer
After our reader replied and recommended using Escrow.com, the reply was this:
Jack,
My client offers $10000. How can he send the money to you? My client usually uses an escrow service.
Before my client buys he will need two things from you:
1. Screenshot of your domain account. It will prove you are a legitimate owner.
2. Domain certification from Domain Tools. (Link removed – a website that sells digital certificates, not DomainTools.com)
This certificate includes two essential things: an appraisal of the market price and a trademark infringement verification.
My client is an experienced investor and he buys certified domains only to avoid potential risks with trademarks and overpriced/stolen domains. So simple certificates from GoDaddy or Sedo do not suit the needs of my client. Before he send the money he needs a complete certification with a valuation and a trademark infringement verification.
Please send the screenshot and the certificate to my email.
So now our reader replies:
The domain tools certificate costs $79 Euros. Your client should pay the upfront cost of this certificate as a good faith gesture – then I will discount the sale price of the domain by the same amount. I cannot be expected to pay this cost upfront with no legal guarantee of sale.
If you client has already offered and I agreed to a sale price, how will any speculative appraised value of the Domain Tools influence the process? As I am sure you know, the domain market has many different valuation sources and they routinely produce different appraised values. If this appraised value is important to your client, then that is another reason for you to purchase the certification on personal*******.com before proposing a sale price – it is ‘bad form’ to insist that a seller pay for an appraisal and then use the appraisal information to negotiate a lower price.
The Escrow service I and most people use is Escrow.com, they will obviously ensure that you receive the domain before transferring the money to me. This alleviates most concerns about legitimate ownership too. However, you must have found my contact information through a whois search which also reflects ownership. Screenshots can be manufactured/altered and are not reliable evidence of ownership.
I look forward to your reply,
The last reply which was expected from the prospect:
My client never sends any money upfront for non-certified names. Sorry.
Yes it is 2015 and this still goes on with different wrinkles, we know that most experienced investors see right through these. Unfortunately new people come into the business everyday and some don’t read domain blogs/forums everyday and get fooled. They see $10,000 in bright neon lights and look at the $79 as just an obstacle to get the big money.
If someone wants to buy your domain name, you sell it where you are protected and you never spend any money on any silly request. There is no validation or verification ever needed.
“If you have more domain names for sale, please email me the list” is the first warning sign. A prospect buyer with a specific need will not be interested in your portfolio of unrelated domain names.
Exactly
So i got this email as i have that car listings domain up for sale…..
as follows the email reads;
Hello!
I represent an investor from Europe who would like to buy premium-cars-malta.com for a new project.
My client is a co-owner of several Internet companies including Alibaba Group.
The new project is going to be started in 3 months but he would like to secure the domain right now.
Are you still interested in selling this domain?
If so, please reply back and we will negotiate the price and discuss the sale process.
I have regular meetings with many major domain investors and I’m using my experience and relations to help companies and individuals to buy and sell domains.
If you have other names for sale, please email me the list.
Best Regards,
Schlomo Havlin
Lawyer
94 Hanassi Avenue
Haifa
34642
Israel
———-=-==== My reply -==============—-
Hi there,
I am willing to sell the domain for 1,500EUR / INCLUDING the full auto CMS sytem installed on it already.
The stand-alone Domain ive had a bid for 750EUR but I am willing to sell for 500EUR if its a Quick sale.
Let me know which you are interested in, then i’ll arrange the name servers and permissions for the domain transfer.
Regards,
–==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- His reply –=-==-=-=-=-=-=–==–=-=-
Domain Broker
10:26 PM (15 hours ago)
to me
I’m not interested in transactions under 10,000. My client pays me 10%-15% on every sale.
May I suggest to change your price to $10,000? My rich client can afford this sum. In this case I will earn a better commission.
I hope you understand my business model better now.
hmmm? should i ask for 1 million or 2? =P
Got the same ‘Schlomo’ email today with variations. The address is a cafe in Haifa. Did you list a domain at Flippa a couple of days prior getting the email?
Haha. He just changes his last name. Got one from Schlomo Finklestein. Creative attempt at a last name if you ask me. An especially strange name for someone from Israel.
I actually had mine on Sedo.com
Hello!
I represent an investor from Europe who would like to buy ********************.com for a new project.
My client is a co-owner of several Internet companies.
Are you still interested in selling this domain?
If so, please reply back and we will negotiate the price and discuss the sale process.
I have regular meetings with many major domain investors.
If you have other names for sale, please email me the list.
Best Regards,
Shlomo Finkelstein
Lawyer
96 Hanassi Avenue
Haifa
34642
Israel
———————————————————
Hello Mr. Finklestein,
I apologize for the slow response. Yes, ***************.com is still available. I am asking 500 USD for it.
I also have three other domains available:
***.com
***.com
***.com
If you buy two, they are 450 USD each. If you buy more than two, they are 400 USD each.
Thank you for your interest.
Regards,
Max Cheney
———————————————————
I’m not interested in transactions under 10,000. My client pays me 10%-15% on every sale.
May I suggest to change your price to $10,000? My rich client can afford this sum. In this case I will earn a better commission.
I hope you understand my business model better now.
———————————————————
My client won’t proceed without the certificate.
I can help you with step by step instructions how to obtain a certificate. Please go to Domain Certification Tools
Enter your domain there and write in the comment field you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer so you need the valuation near this value.
It will take only 2 minutes to submit your domains. If they approve your request, they will send you payment instructions.
After your payment, they will send you the results within 24 hours. Simply resend me the certificate via email.
After we receive your certificate we will proceed with the sale. I may help you with the transfer process. Please don’t worry. I will be with you during the whole sale/transfer process. You can count on my help.
———————————————————
I haven’t replied yet. But now I know that all my red flags were not unwarranted.
Good to know for sure.
Same thing to me. thanks for telling your story.
I knew that didn’t sound right,
Great post.
I received the exact same type of email on Friday night, only Canada was the country of choice, the name of the “domain lawyer” was David Rotenberg, and the address he used on his email was in the UK. I ran a quick Google map search and found the address was for a government employment office in Manchester. LOL!
Danny,
yeah that’s the same address (UK employment agency) he used. same guy, he used a different name.
I suspect it’s the guy who owns the digital-certificates.net website, which he attempts to hide with a “Domain Tools” anchor textlink. Whois records ID the owner of that domain.
Greed makes for Gullibility.
Domainers are prone to both.
Great point Joseph, a lot of the most famous cons throughout history have worked off of the greed of the mark, If they were not greedy they would have never got conned.
This “tactic” was attempted on me at least 5 years ago. Just a way to get you down in price or some one with serious psychological problems.
Wow! Thanks for this post.
Today I received a similar letter. From Michael.
Michael Baginsky, Ph. D.
Vice President Investor Relations.
VP Space Cloud Hosting & Computing:
Sudquaistrasse 14
CH-4057 Basel
Switzerland
Phone: 061 259 49 603
I just received exactly same situation but in different name
Robert Baxter, Ph. D.
Vice President Investor Relations.
VP Space Cloud Hosting & Computing:
Sudquaistrasse 14
CH-4057 Basel
Switzerland
Phone: 061 259 49 603
i Recieved this one today :
My client offers a sum in $10,000 – $30,000 range. The exact figure will depend on the appraisal results (see below).
Before we go further we need only one thing from you:
My client is a professional investor and he buys certified domains only.
If your domain has been certified, please email me the certificate and we will proceed with the sale. If you don’t have a certificate it’s not a problem. I may send you a link where you can obtain it. Please don’t worry. It takes 1-2 minutes to order it. The results will be sent to you within 24 hours. Then you send me the certificate via email and we’ll proceed with the sale
The certification includes the following:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. It will show your domain name is not overpriced. On the other hand if the valuation comes higher we will increase the price accordingly.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems.
3. Verification of the owner. It proves you are a legitimate owner and your domain has no any obligations and restrictions. I’m sure that you are a legitimate owner so it will be only a formality.
As a broker I’m very interested in a good valuation part of this certificate because my client pays me a commission (10-15% of the sale price) on every domain purchase. So I’m not interested in a low price too.
You can read about the certificate agency at ,,,some link here….. which was fake(“Domain Broker” is my nickname).
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site and order a certificate. Just submit your domains and let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer and need a valuation near this value. After several hours you will get the results. If the price in your certificate comes higher we will increase our offer accordingly.
2. Then send these results via email and we’ll proceed with the deal.
If you are new to the certification process, I can help you with the step by step instructions.
Sincerely yours,
@Diana Bozarth,
You realize 100% of the people in this thread know you’re a scammer, right? You may as well walk straight into a police station with your pants around your ankles.
These frauds need to be stopped in their tracks. Even though these are obvious scans, inexperienced domainers fall for them all the time.
It seems these losers are permitted to act unethically to ripoff hard working people. Someone should set these people up, and then shutdown the website they are affiliated with for scamming and spamming.
These criminals only prey on the weak. They use your Whois or random contact info to contact you. Don’t feed their scams. Real buyers don’t set terms and conditions before discussing a domain sale. Remember that.
This is not a scam. These guys helped me to sell my domains.
Those who posted negative postings never ordered certificates and never tried to sell names this way.
I want to thank these guys for their great job!
So which domains did you sell through this? Thanking should be eponymous, don’t be shy now.
Yes, by all means:
“Thanks, [who?], for helping me sell [what?] last [when?] to [whom?] for [how much?]”
Here’s how that works:
“Thanks, John Daly, for helping me sell NicotinePatch(es).com last October to Braden Pollock for $14,000.”
That’s what reality looks like. Your, Mr. Moon.
Well-played, Joseph, nice sale(s).
But going back to Mr. Moon, I would like to see some samples – along with certificates issued for a fee – of domains that he sold. Otherwise, praising spammers seems like a demonstration of a relationship – if not, direct link – to the faux emails with names originating in Haifa and elsewhere.
I don’t know Mr. Moon but I can confirm his words.
These guys are not a scam. They really help people to sell domains. My friend from Greece sold several names using their services.
Moreover, their services are free for sellers.
Acro, did you order these certificates yourself? Did you try to sell domain via them? Looks like their competitors pay you to send fake and negative postings here.
Yes, of course. I too have an unnamed friend who once sold many unspecified domains for lots of unreported money thanks to this totally legitimate and 10,000% real service. Give me your bank account details, and I will send you an autographed picture of my buddy and Big Foot lighting cigars with $100 bills. Signed by them both.
@Gioni Panagiotis
This must be the guy who helped your friend get rich:
@ Gioini Penisitis:
Prove that you, “Mr. Walter Moon” and all the fake names sending the scam emails are not the same Dbag. Namely, the same industrial-grade retard that performs a dis-service for his “client” by negotiating worse prices, yet insists on supporting “his client’s” requirement of a $79euro meaningless certificate. I bet you are all the same person listed under Whois for the website that sells the bogus certificates:
Domain Name: DIGITAL-CERTIFICATES.NET
Registry Domain ID: 1891678838_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2014-12-21T22:23:07Z
Creation Date: 2014-12-21T22:23:07Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-12-21T22:23:07Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: email@godaddy.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Thomas Smerdon
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 11 High Street
Registrant City: Stoke
Registrant State/Province: Hamdon
Registrant Postal Code: TA14 6PP
Registrant Country: United Kingdom
Registrant Phone: +44.1935824917
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: email@name-tools.net
Do something productive rather than trying to cheat people. Or identify yourself and the claims you make and I will sincerely apologize. puta.
Today I’ve recive this!
– – – –
Hello!
I represent an investor from Europe who would like to buy auctioncows.com for a new project.
My client is a co-owner of several Internet companies.
Are you still interested in selling this domain?
If so, please reply back and we will negotiate the price and discuss the sale process.
I have regular meetings with many major domain investors.
If you have other names for sale, please email me the list.
Best Regards,
David Schizer
Lawyer
84 Hanassi Avenue
Haifa
34642
Israel
Than
I answer him back telling that I’m still selling my domains
and
Daniel,
Thank you for responding!
My client can pay you a price in $18,000 – $20,000 range.
The exact figure will depend on the appraisal results (see below). Before we go further we need only one thing from you:
My client is a professional investor and he buys certified domains only.
If your domain has been certified, please email me the certificate and we will proceed with the sale. If you don’t have a certificate it’s not a problem. I may send you a link where you can obtain it. Please don’t worry. It takes 1-2 minutes to order it. The results will be sent to you within 24 hours. Then you send me the certificate via email and we’ll proceed with the sale
The certification includes the following:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. It will show your domain name is not overpriced. On the other hand if the valuation comes higher we will increase the price accordingly.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems.
3. Verification of the owner. It proves you are a legitimate owner and your domain has no any obligations and restrictions. I’m sure that you are a legitimate owner so it will be only a formality.
As a middleman I’m very interested in a good valuation part of this certificate because my client pays me a commission (10-15% of the sale price) on every domain purchase. So I’m not interested in a low price too.
You can read about the certificate agency at http://www.answers-google.org/answers/threadview/id/184829.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname).
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site and order a certificate. Just submit your domains and let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer and need a valuation near this value. After several hours you will get the results. If the price in your certificate comes higher we will increase our offer accordingly.
2. Then send these results via email and we’ll proceed with the deal.
If you are new to the certification process, I can help you with the step by step instructions.
– – – –
So The conversation are still going… his email ( ca.huji.ac.il@gmail.com)
Same address same text e-mail…
Shame on this people.
I need to sell this domains, and people are joking and making frauds.
Thank you for avoid me from this!
This charlatan has used 3 aliases in these comments – 1 of them twice in a row because he forgot to mix thing up! Same arguments from all 4. Same phrasing in all 4 cases. It’s practically a template!
Step 1. Next alias conspicuously distances himself from previous alias:
“I don’t know Mr. Moon but I can confirm his words.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“He also contacted me.” [Gioini Panagiotis 2]
“Why do you attack Mr. Gionis?” [Roger Smith]
Step 2. Fake customer denies the allegations:
“This is not a scam.” [Walter Moon]
“These guys are not a scam.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“This is not a scam.” [Gioini Panagiotis 2 says this twice]
“They are not a scam.” [Roger Smith]
Step 3. Pretend “these guys” (each alias says this, 5 times total) “help to sell” domains (3 of the aliases say some variation of this):
“These guys helped me to sell my domains.” [Walter Moon]
“They really help people to sell domains.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“My friend from Greece sold several names using their services.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“He really helped me to sell my domain.” [Gioini Panagiotis 2]
“I also sold names through these guys.” [Roger Smith]
Step 4. Challenge anybody who was NOT duped why they didn’t “order certificates” (said 4 times, once by each alias):
“Those who posted negative postings never ordered certificates and never tried to sell names this way.” [Walter Moon]
“did you order these certificates yourself?” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“I decided to try and ordered the certificate.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“you never tried to order the certification?” [Roger Smith]
Step 5. Complain about “negative postings” (a distinctly weird bit of English):
“Those who posted negative postings” [Walter Moon]
“Looks like their competitors pay you to send fake and negative postings here.” [Gioini Panagiotis 1]
“Don’t believe these postings.” [Gioini Panagiotis 2]
“How can you post this fake and negative information” [Roger Smith]
Step 6. The alias thanks the charlatan:
“I want to thank these guys for their great job!” [Walter Moon]
“I want to say thank you. Keep u the good work!” [Gioini Panagiotis 2]
This scam has been around for years. Plenty of people have wasted money on it, and some of them will attest to that. You can find plenty of warnings at NamePros and DNForum. But the mere fact that this charlatan is posting the same nonsense repeatedly using multiple aliases ought to remove all doubt.
I can confirm the IP address for Roger Smith and Gionis Panagiotis are the same
95.72.204.129
Both comments have been removed so that no reader thinks it was a legitimate discussion between two separate people.
Same scam with new alias:
David Ben Shimol.
I replied:
Yes! I would like $23,000 for my domain. My advisor says that you should pay for whatever certifications you need to make the sale and take it out of the settled amount. We will be using escrow.com and when I am assured that the money is there, then I will transfer the domain info. I look forward to hearing from you!
Here’s another one, same template received this week:
First email:
Hello!
I represent an investor from Europe who would like to buy xxxxxxxx.com for a new project.
My client is an owner of several businesses. He is a profesional investor.
Are you still interested in selling this domain?
If so, please reply back and we will negotiate the price and discuss the sale process.
I have regular meetings with many major domain investors.
If you have other names for sale, please email me the list.
Best Regards,
David Ben Shimol
Lawyer
15-A Palyam St.
Haifa
33095
Israel
2nd email:
My client offers a sum in $21,000 – $23,000 range.
He is also interested in
xxxxxxx.com
xxxxxxxx.com
xxxxxxxxx.com
Of course, the final figure will depend on the appraised value.
If your domain has been certified and appraised, please email me an appraisal certificate and we will proceed with the sale. If you don’t have a certificate it’s not a problem. I may send you instructions how to obtain it.
Please note, my client does not accept auto-generated appraisals and appraisals without trademark infringement verification.
The certification must include the following:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. It will show your domain name is not overpriced. On the other hand if the valuation comes higher we will increase the price accordingly.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems.
3. Verification of the owner. It proves you are a legitimate owner and your domain has no any obligations and restrictions. I’m sure that you are a legitimate owner so it will be only a formality.
You can read about certification agencies that can be accepted by my client at http://archive.answers-google.org/answers/threadview/id/189853.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname).
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site and order a certificate. Just submit your domains and let them know you have a buyer with $21,000 offer and need a valuation near this value. After several hours you will get the results. If the price in your certificate comes higher we will increase our offer accordingly.
2. Then send the certificate via email and we’ll start the sale process.
If you are new to the certification process, I can help you with step by step instructions.
Any genuine buyer would not offer more than it’s worth and then ask for a certificate.
Don’t fall for it!
My partner got that exact email verbatim today 5/8/15. Never come across this particular scam before but it just smelt fishy so we did a search and found this blog. No surprises here then.
Yesterday I received same email, from support@23-reg.co.uk. He presented as director of a hosting company. Today I tried to make the payment in any of the convenience stores in my town, but I was lucky that none of those businesses accept payments by Paysafecard or Telepay systems. I suggested to make payment by paypal but he said no because he received many requests for reimbursement, that’s where I was suspicious and I searched online until I found this page, I was saved from falling into the trap. Thanks!
here’s another one sent from info@123-reg-support.info
the buyer offers $15,000 but he needs an additional security. He does not want to overpay or buy a domain with some restrictions.
Do you have a certificate?
He needs this for accounting/tax purposes.
If you don’t have it’s not a problem. You can order it online.
He needs it from a source he knows and trusts.
The certificate must include the following:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. It will show your domain name is not overpriced. On the other hand if the valuation comes higher, he will increase the price accordingly. In the domain name industry, there are many appraisal tools that people use to estimate the value of a domain name. My client does not want to risk and doesn’t accept services that use scripts. If you are unsure about some service feel free to ask me.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems. He would like this verification to be included in the appraisal report. It’s not a problem because some companies include the TM verification for free.
I’m also interested in a good estimate of the market price because he pays me % on each sale.
You can read about certification agencies at http://archive.answers-google.org/answers/threadview/id/9521064.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname).
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site and order a certificate. Just submit your domains and let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer and need a valuation near this value. Please ask them in the comment field if it’s possible. If everything is ok with your domain, they will send you the payment instructions. If your domain has low value or some restrictions, they will not approve your request and you won’t pay for the certification. So there is no risk for you.
2. After you get the certification via email, please send it to me and we will start the sale process. The buyer will purchase your domain via an escrow service. I may recommend a very reliable escrow service that supports Payoneer, Paypal, Wire, check and many other payment methods, so you can get your payment fast and easy.
We need to use the escrow because he wants to ensure the safe delivery of the funds to you. Furthermore, since this is our first time conducting any business, I believe that using a third-party escrow service can provide a safe, well defined process.
If you are new to certifications, I can send you step by step instructions.
OMG, I just paid them USD568 for their services last night and yes the broker has not responded yet about the sale after I hv forwarded him the appraisal.
Well it’s a good lesson for me and wish I saw this post earlier. All the contents listed are the same as mine. What a tragedy for a startup like me!
Sorry to hear that, Nina.
There are a lot of unethical people lying in wait for newbies in the domain industry. Fortunately, there are many free resources for people to learn about domains. The best thing to do is search for answers first. This appraisal scam is widely discussed online and has been for years.
Hi Joseph
I requested to cancel the order and my other 51 domains are not ready and this is their reply:-
Our name is Domain Services. We are based in Germany. It’s listed on our site. We have issued thousands certificates and you are the firs who sent such complaint.
No refund will be given. We have your order on file with the credit card picture. It will be sent to your bank. We have already paid to our experts and they are working on your certificates. We have you signature under the non refundable agreement.
Looks like you are trying to use our services for free.
In case of chargeback we will send your signed agreement to your bank to contest it, so you will also pay the chargeback fees. We will also send your personal details to all Internet merchants to black list you, so you won’t be able to make purchases online.
What should I do now?
I have contacted my bank to stop my credit card in case they create further charges as they have pictures of my credit card.
Could you advise what I could do now?
I complained because their appraisal certificate looks like it’s home made with just a company name called “Domain Services” and no other contact information like address or contact number nor a website. I searched on the registered domain appraisal service and they are not included in the list then I searched for thei website and there was just one landing page.
@Nina,
Honestly, I’m not sure what will happen if you initiate a charge back in this case. Perhaps you should talk to your bank first, explain where things stand, and reference online reports of the appraisal scam – both here and elsewhere. Maybe your bank or credit card company will be able to tell you whether the charge back is likely to be decided in your favor or whether you’re obliged to pay for the service despite this outfit’s well documented fraudulent claims.
Ok noted, thank you Joseaph! The credit card security department will call me tmr then I will tell them the whole story again. USD568 is ok for a good lesson like this but I just don’t want to encourage their behaviour as they always succeed in making money like u said that they or these people have been in the market for quite some time!
Nina,
definitely initiate a dispute (“chargeback”) with your credit card. Credit cards (Visa , AMEX, MasterCard, Discover) all have slightly different procedures for disputes/chargebacks but they are designed to protect card holders from scams like this. (I am very familiar with these procedures). Thankfully, you used a credit card and not a checking account (outside of credit cards, banks are useless for disputes).
Print out key portions of comments on this blog showing this scam and connecting it to your correspondence with the scammer. Use highlighter to emphasize the key excerpts. (Do not send the credit card too much because a lazy person might get assigned the claim and not read through it.) Talk to one of the credit card reps on the phone and have them put notes in your claim to direct the examiner. you can definitely beat this, but it will be a bit of a process.
Thank you Joseph!
Guess I really just want to make my first sale for our newly launched website! The price was ok for a not-a-very-popular City dot com. He offered me $15,000 and we thought we will take it because we have just launched on 4 days ago. And I thought to spend USD160 or something for one appraisal was too expensive but if I ordered bulk it would be cheaper. So I ordered 52 certificates then it was down to $9 each. I didn’t mind to pay for the certificates if they were all real and can prove the value as I thought I could provide this to my clients as an extra service for free! I’d also paid $99 for signing up their wanted ads so I could market our website through these buyers which I thought again is very reasonable as marketing expense. But I guess it is all a setup now. So sad and dis encouraging but I will wake up tomorrow to a brand new start and will look on the bright side.
I would like to share and hope others won’t fall into the setup like me. So for everyone’s info, the broker’s email address was the same as above info@123-reg-support.info and the website where I got my certificate was from http://smartdomainsales.net. I will not post the contents because it is very similar to the above.
Have a great day everyone and don’t get fooled like me!
*wink*
Just to make this clear for everybody:
Real buyers do NOT ask sellers to pay for appraisals. If a buyer wants the domain appraised or cleansed of evil spirits, let the buyer pay for the appraisal / exorcism.
Domainers should spend a LOT of time studying market prices. You don’t learn to fish by buying fish at the grocery store.
Personally, I’m sometimes paid to perform domain appraisals. None of you reading TheDomains are going to hire me to do this, nor should you. I’m not canvassing for customers here. My point is that new domainers misunderstand what paid appraisals are for. They’re for people who have no time to pay attention to the domain market and no long-term interest in this industry.
For example, a company recently heard that a domain like theirs sold for big bucks; so they wanted to know if they could sell their domain out from underneath their website and get a similar return. I assembled the evidence and talked them out of it.
Another company – a startup this time – was looking at half a dozen domain names. For each domain, they wanted to compare the seller’s asking price against market resale value. It was a factor in their decision, and they wanted everybody to have the same data to look at.
But let me repeat: Real buyers do NOT ask sellers to pay for appraisals. If they want them, they pay for them on their own.
Hi Joseph
I will remember ” real buyers do not ask sellers to pay for appraisals!! ” ….of course I will remember !
Thank you!
I do not mind the process and it will be good to blacklist them to avoid further damages to the innocence. I will put my case forward to the card Center tmr and will work on it!
Thanks for your suggestion, Tyler!
yes, and I am sure they DO have previous disputes logged. the quotes from the scammer you posted suggest that he/she has tried to defend disputes before. For example, the alleged image of your “checkout” sig, etc. That crap only applies to non-scam transactions but you may have to press lazy card reps to escalate investigation and verbally assert that this is a scam, not an ordinary “return”.
I am glad you are motivated to fight this – the credit card companies log this info and will eventually ban this MFer.
I just got this email today. They even went as far as creating a fake Google Answers thread to make themselves seem legit. I hope this can help out those newbies out there:
“Hello!
Our buyer is interested in purchasing *****.com for a new project.
The buyer is a private investor from Saudi Arabia. He has $250,000 budget for 50-60 names.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
I work for a hosting company based in UK.
I help our clients to buy and sell intellectual properties.
Do you have more names? Can you send a list?
Are you an experienced seller?
Best Regards,
Anthony Cronenberg
Vice President
123REG”
I went ahead and responded that yes, I still was accepting offers then he emailed me right back with this reply:
“The buyer will pay you the appraised value. It will be fair.
Based on my experience, I think your name is in $18,000 – $19,000 range and my client has enough funds to pay you this sum.
Do you have a certificate of the appraised value?
If you don’t have it’s not a problem. You can order it online.
He needs it from a source he knows and trusts.
I’m also interested in a good estimate of the market price because he pays me % on each sale.
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site (see instructions below) and submit your domain for the certification. Please let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer. It will help you to get a better valuation. In the comment field please ask them to guarantee that the appraised value will be higher than the appraisal service fee. In this case you will not risk to pay and get a low appraisal. I suggest you this company because they protect you as the seller from getting a low appraised value. They will send you the payment instruction only if your domain is worth $1000 or higher. Otherwise your request will be declined and you will not pay hem anything. Other companies does not offer this option.
2. If your request will be approved, please pay them the fee and wait for 24 hours. Then send me the results via email and we will start the sale process. As soon as he receives your certificate, he will buy your domain via an escrow service. Any escrow service will be able to pay you via Paypal, Wire, Western Union or any other method you prefer.
He wants to ensure the safe delivery of the funds to you. Furthermore, since this is our first time conducting any business, I believe that using a third-party escrow service can provide a safe, well defined sale process.
The certificate must include only 2 things to be accepted by my buyer:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. Only manual valuation is accepted. No valuations generated by scripts.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems. He would like this verification to be included in the appraisal report. It’s not a problem because some companies include the TM verification for free.
You can read about the recommended certification agency at Google Answers: http://archive.answers-google.org/answers/threadview/id/7518604.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname there).
If you are new to certifications, I can send you step by step instructions.
”
As Joseph above said, a real buyer will never ask the seller to pay for a domain appraisal, they will pay for it themselves.
I hope this helps.
Anyone have a screen of these fake certificates? URL?
I’m puzzled over this scam a bit! For a scam to work the scammer has to make money. If all that happens is you get a valuation on your domain independently, then how does the scammer benefit?
Its a bit like someone doing a run from the local takeaway, but after ordering the food running before they get it! LOL
Did you read the earlier posts? If you read the thread you will see that the scammer only pretends to be independent from the certificate seller — they are actually the same person.
I am puzzled by your not-LOL analogy.
I received a similar letter just few days ago…right away it seemed suspitious! Watch out for scams like this…
Hello!
I represent an investor from Canada who needs trumpsky.com for his project.
He is a professional investor with 15 years of experience.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Walter Zendelman
Customer Support
Domain Names Department
123 REG UK
yeah, this is still going on, and they are getting even smarter than they used to be… now they have made up a fake conversation on google answer’s page… 🙂
Here is mine from today.
“The buyer will pay you the appraised value. It will be fair since he does not want to pay something over the real market value.
Based on my experience, I think your name is in $15,000 – $20,000 range.
Do you have a certificate of the appraised value?
If you don’t have it’s not a problem. You can order it online.
He needs it from a source he knows and trusts.
I’m also interested in a good estimate of the market price because he pays me % on each sale.
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site (see instructions below) and submit your domain for the certification. Please let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer. It will help you to get a better valuation. In the comment field please ask them to guarantee that the appraised value will be higher than the appraisal service fee. In this case you will not risk to pay and get a low appraisal. I suggest you this company because they protect you as the seller from getting a low appraised value. They will send you the payment instruction only if your domain is worth $1000 or higher. Otherwise your request will be declined and you will not pay hem anything. Other companies does not offer this option.
2. If your request will be approved, please pay them the fee and wait for 24 hours. Then send me the results via email and we will start the sale process. As soon as he receives your certificate, he will buy your domain via an escrow service. Any escrow service will be able to pay you via Paypal, Wire, Western Union or any other method you prefer.
He wants to ensure the safe delivery of the funds to you. Furthermore, since this is our first time conducting any business, I believe that using a third-party escrow service can provide a safe, well defined sale process.
The certificate must include only 2 things to be accepted by my buyer:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. Only manual valuation is accepted. No valuations generated by scripts.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems. He would like this verification to be included in the appraisal report. It’s not a problem because some companies include the TM verification for free.
You can read about the recommended certification agency at Google Answers: http://archive.answers-google.org/answers/threadview/id/70529361.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname there).
If you are new to certifications, I can send you step by step instructions.
“
I got this: 🙁
Hello!
I represent a professional investor from Ireland who wants to buy xxxxxx.com for a new project.
He is a professional investor with 15 years of experience.
Are you still interested in selling?
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Steven Perelman
Vice President
1-2-3 Reg
The buyer will pay you the appraised value. It will be fair since he does not want to pay something over the real market value.
Based on my experience, I think your name is in $15,000 – $20,000 range.
Do you have a certificate of the appraised value?
If you don’t have it’s not a problem. You can order it online.
He needs it from a source he knows and trusts.
I’m also interested in a good estimate of the market price because he pays me % on each sale.
The process is very easy:
1. Go to the certificate agency site (see instructions below) and submit your domain for the certification. Please let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer. It will help you to get a better valuation. In the comment field please ask them to guarantee that the appraised value will be higher than the appraisal service fee. In this case you will not risk to pay and get a low appraisal. I suggest you this company because they protect you as the seller from getting a low appraised value. They will send you the payment instruction only if your domain is worth $1000 or higher. Otherwise your request will be declined and you will not pay hem anything. Other companies does not offer this option.
2. If your request will be approved, please pay them the fee and wait for 24 hours. Then send me the results via email and we will start the sale process. As soon as he receives your certificate, he will buy your domain via an escrow service. Any escrow service will be able to pay you via Paypal, Wire, Western Union or any other method you prefer.
He wants to ensure the safe delivery of the funds to you. Furthermore, since this is our first time conducting any business, I believe that using a third-party escrow service can provide a safe, well defined sale process.
The certificate must include only 2 things to be accepted by my buyer:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. Only manual valuation is accepted. No valuations generated by scripts.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems. He would like this verification to be included in the appraisal report. It’s not a problem because some companies include the TM verification for free.
If you are new to certifications, I can send you step by step instructions.
___________________________________
(there is no such thing as easy money…)
hi I received this too yesterday, what I don’t understand is how they can keep their website up and going they list bbb certification and escrow.com seems those companies could shut them down! smartdomainsales.net is the site and they list 50,000 plus domain sales last month for over 14000 each. I know this is part of the scam because they charge if you want to see the domains wanted!!! If I was buying domains I would everyone to see what I wanted!!!!!!!!!!
Total scam
50K domains at an avg of 14K each for January 2016 = $700 million in domain sales. I that in pesos?
These malignant retards report more sales than even remotely plausible. They would be a blue chip Wall Street darling with those numbers.
BBB cert is a freaking joke — it is probably false, but the BBB frequently removes cert and still leaves the previous letter grade icon prominent on their site (meaning delisted fraudsters still show “A” rating icons even after their cert is revoked). BBB only marginally competent on their birthday.
Don’t we have any UK readers who could track the locations of these fuckers in the whois records? An old-fashioned beatdown is in order.
I’m in the UK and got exactly the same email but his ‘client’ was a Kuwaiti businessman. The email almost looked legit: sales@[myregistrar.co.uk].info – the only thing that alerted me was the content/writing style. Very ‘Nigerian Prince’ (a similar scam from the 90’s).
I just received an email very similar to this. I’ve never sold a domain before and thought it was kinda phishy to contact me outside of the auction site.
Email as follows:
greg@123-reg-uk.co
Hello!
I represent an investor from Oxford, UK who wants to buy bay****.com for a new project.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Greg Galan
Vice President
Intellectual Property Sales
123 REG UK
=========================
My Reply:
Hello Greg,
Yes, I am still interested in selling bay****.com. I do also have another domain that I am looking to sell as well, Mi****.co. I’ve had both domains appraised and attached are the screenshots of their appraisals.
If you’re interested in making an offer on either one or both domains, please respond to this email with your offer and we can go from there.
Best regards,
================================
His reply:
The certification service of GoDaddy does not include appraisal and TM infringement verification. My client cannot accept it.
================================
After that I started googling and found this forum. Thanks for the heads up!
Hello to all,
Please all file a Complaint on the IC3 website: http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
The IC3 means INTERNET CRIME COMPLAINT CENTER and its from the FBI ( Federal Bureau of Investigation).
I have been robbed by this fraudulent website too, I paid for fake “certifivates or appraisals” and paid for the “premium showcase” to “sell” my domains in the same website too!! The fraudulent website is Smartdomainsales.net and I received the same email from the “domain broker” too!!
Lets all make a team against the person that owns that scam website, so the FBI can put in jail this scammer soon, take his website down as soon as posible and hopefully we can all get our money back!
Thanks and dont forget to file a Complaint on the IC3 website, its very easy and fast, and doesnt matter in what country you live, the FBI will investigate all the complaints against this fraudulent website.
Best regards,
Hi,
I’ve got a similar email today. In this case the email came from info@hostgator-web-host.info and the “representative” was:
Fred Goldberg
Vice President
Intellectual Property Specialist
Hostgator UK HOSTING
Exact email than the examples posted above.
Cheers
Just got a mail like the following from info@hostgator-web-host.info
Sub: Offer to purchase 3dprinterx.com
Hello!
Our client is interested in buying 3dprinterx.com.
The buyer is an investor from Canada.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Fred Goldberg
Lawyer
Intellectual Property Specialist
Hostgator UK HOSTING
I got same mail today. Thank you for sharing this good form.
Best Regards,
Helen Andreson
Domain Name Broker
123 REG
Well, I just received mine ! It was sent by someone using the name of Helen Anderson. I thought it sounded a bit fishy or a scam, so I did some fishing of my own and found this site, pity it is not higher up in Google’s rankings !
Hello!
I represent an investor from Canada who wants to buy ****************.com for a new online project.
The buyer is a professional investor in Real Estate.
Investing in web names is a new direction for him.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
I work for a hosting company.
I help our clients to buy and sell intellectual properties.
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Helen Anderson
Domain Name Broker
123 REG
Her e-mail address is helen@123-reg-uk-support.info
If you put the domain name ‘123-reg-uk-support.info’ into Domaintools whois you get
Registrant ID: CR210606785
Registrant Name: 123 REG
Registrant Organization: 123 REG
Registrant Street: 5 Roundwood Avenue
Registrant City: UXBRIDGE
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code: UB11 1FF
Registrant Country: GB
Registrant Phone: +44.02034027582
If you’re curious you can then go to Google maps and look at 5 Roundwood Avenue, Uxbridge (London) ! No houses just a leisure centre and some businesses
Thanks for this site guys – saved me a lot of messing about – I didn’t answer her e-mail by the way.
I think that scammer from domain appraisal website, because usually they ask me to get an appraisal from a site that cost $60-$100. And guess what, lot of appraisal website closed after a year, and maybe make a new one with same dirty business technique.
IMO automatic or manual domain appraisal is a scam and useless.
E.g. I was tested manual domain appraisal from BIG website that cost $100, it made me laugh so hard, my 3 letter domain just got $2000, and they’ll bought it. They think I’m an idiot.
I received same email, from julia@netfirms-ca.info
1st mail
Hello!
I represent an investor from Canada who wants to buy ArtMotion.com for a new online project.
The buyer is a professional investor.
I located your contact information in a domain name whois lookup and understand that you own the domain name.
Are you still interested in selling?
I help clients of our hosting company to buy and sell intellectual properties.
If you have more names I can help you to sell them.
Best Regards,
Julia Krein
Domain Name Broker
NetFirms
Toronto, Canada
After my answer 2nd mail
Our commission is 5% only. You will pay it after receiving the funds from the buyer. In order to earn a better commission I will do my best to sell your domain at the highest price possible.
My buyer invests money in online projects. He buys 10-12 domains for each project to get the maximum traffic possible.
The buyer will pay you the appraised value stated in an official certificate. He needs an independent expertise because you and me are interested in a high sale price and my buyer does not want to overpay. He also needs it for accounting and tax purposes. The buyer guarantees to pay you the price stated in your certificate.
Based on my experience, I think your name is in $15,000 – $20,000 range.
Do you have a certificate of the appraised value from an independent authority (not your broker or auction site)?
If you don’t have it’s not a problem. You can order it online. I will suggest the best source when we can get a good valuation.
The certificate will increase the value of your domain. It’s a must do if you wish to sell your domain to a professional investor with a good budget.
The certificate must include only 2 things to be accepted by my buyer:
1. Independent valuation of the market price. Only manual valuation is accepted. No valuations generated by scripts.
2. Trademark infringement verification. It proves your domain has no trademark problems. He would like this verification to be included in the appraisal report. It’s not a problem because some companies include the TM verification for free.
You can read about the recommended certification agency at Google Answers: http://answers-google.online/answers/threadview/id/01824603.html (“Domain Broker” is my nickname there).
The process is very easy and will take only two minutes of your time:
1. Go to the certificate agency site and submit your domain for the certification. Please let them know you have a buyer with $XX,XXX offer. It will help you to get a better valuation. In the comment field please ask them to guarantee that the appraised value will be higher than the appraisal service fee. In this case you will not risk to pay and get a low appraisal. I suggest you this company because they protect you as the seller from getting a low appraised value. They will send you the payment instruction only if your domain is worth appraising. Otherwise your request will be declined and you will not pay them anything. Other companies does not offer this option.
2. If your request will be approved, please pay them the fee and wait for 24 hours. Then send me the results via email and we will start the sale process. As soon as he receives your certificate, he will buy your domain via an escrow service. Any escrow service will be able to pay you via Paypal, Wire, Western Union or any other method you prefer.
He wants to ensure the safe delivery of the funds to you. Furthermore, since this is our first time conducting any business, I believe that using a third-party escrow service can provide a safe, well defined sale process.
If you are new to certifications or domain sales, I can send you step by step instructions. I will also help you during the whole sale process. You will be able to contact me at any time.
I haven’t gotten any of these e-mails yet. I wonder how these scammers get domainers emails.
I have listed domain for sale on flippa. They got my email address from whois record.
Here is email:
Hello!
I represent an investor who is going to buy ****.com for a new online project.
Are you still interested in selling?
The buyer offers a price in $15,000 – $25,000 range (based on your certified appraisal).
Please get back to me and I will help you to finish the deal.
Best Regards,
Victoria Aronowicz
Lawyer
NetFirms CA
6952 Derry Rd Building B 40051 Derry Heights PO
Milton
ON
L9T 7W4
haifa.attorney.1973@gmail.com
Victoria Aronowicz
Lawyer
Hello We received an Email also 🙁 LOL
Can anyone knows it’s a true or fake ?
Hello!
I represent a domain buyer who is going to acquire classifiedclick.com for his brand new web site.
The buyer offers a price in $ 10 000 – $ 15 000 range (depends on your certificate of price).
Is it your first sale or perhaps you have an experience?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Sinerely yours,
Alice Woodman
Lawyer
Email: lawyer@zurich-law-attorney.info
Holbeinstrasse 31. Zurich 8034
Switzerland
This is not fake. I sold my domain this way.
Appraisal Service gives buyer confidence to proceed. This is a normal practice.
My agent did not disappear after I ordered the certificate.
Thanks for connecting the dots in the scam for everyone “James Wilkinson”, you fake yelper.
This Dbag is part of the scam. The broker is a fake-front to sell meaningless certificates.
The fake buyer, the fake broker and your real money all disappear… but you get an beautifully-scripted, meaningless opinion that you can print and frame… as a reminder that you’re an idiot.
They have been scamming for many years now using different websites but SAME method. Once you decided to pay, they will take a copy of your credit card front and back so you cannot apply for charge back in the future when you know the buyer was not real! And you cannot charge back because they did provide you with some sort of certificate (which no one approves) but from banks point of view is the product you purchased have been delivered so you won’t be able to get your money back. So be careful!
Thank you Joseph, I was out and did not see this comment it has been removed as that type of nonsense will not be tolerated.
hi, plz help me I got same mail from the broker like this but including all details of broker n company (Onamae Hosting LLC, Tokyo, Japan) its real or scam. I am totally confused.
You got the same email? Essentially the same language? Essentially the same req to pay an alleged 3rd party some fee for a meaningless opinion on a valuation that is ESSENTIALLY subjective?
Mine was a clear scam but I am sure the variation they sent you is totally legit.
kidding — block those F-heads and move on.