Francois Carrillo the man behind Domaining.com and other sites in the domain industry just launched a new domain name registrar, DONA.com which is offering what its calling “UDRP Insurance” with every registration, plus is contributing 30% of all profits to the Internet Commerce Association (ICA).
Here is what Francois had to say about the new registrar:
“As you know each day, we are hit by more and more abusive UDRPs from people that try to steal our names.
“It costs a lot of money to defend our assets and I am afraid as more people become aware of this ugly method to get domains, this plague dramatically grows.”
“This is why I am pleased to announce that we’ll offer “UDRP INSURANCE” to everybody registering domains at DONA.com!”
“If you are hit by an UDRP:
– You will get free legal assistance to estimate your winning chances.
– A list of attorneys offering special rates to our members.
– And if you won the UDRP, we’ll reimburse you the legal fees spent to defend you!
This way you no longer have to be afraid about this plague. If you register your domain in good faith, you should no longer spend money defending against domain hijackers.
I am also proud to announce that 30% of the profit generated by DONA.com will be reversed to the Internet Commerce Association (ICA) who defend the domain industry interest at ICANN and Washington.
So when you register names at DONA.com, you are also indirectly contributing to have laws changes to our advantage.
We really need to have our voice heard to influence ICANN and governments to change rules and better defend our rights. It’s
critical and urgent that we unite and have a strong association to defend us. Without big changes things can only get worse, much worse…
Our rates are not the cheapest but are very competitive, watch here and compare with your registrar.””
The registrar is a Enom.com reseller, with .com rates of $11.15.
too high prices
The only Dona I know is Dona Summer and I love love her
Two things…
Not really insurance now is it.
Secondly if the average udrp is lost it is so nice of them to return your legal fee’s if you win.
Bottom line, it is a nice marketing ploy but nothing more in my opinion. I guess with age I just get grumpy …oh and smarter.
Does the insurance cover all names in my account including Facebook typos?
Josh
About 85% of all UDRP’s go in favor of the complainant, just like the Mann o war less than hilarious comment about facebook typo’s.
Over the years I have defended and won 6 UDRP at an average cost of $5K including fees for a three member panel.
So that’s $30K I paid to defend.
With that in mind what’s the downside?
MHB- did they send you flowers and boxes of chocolate, a big congratulatory card when you won…
Bull
Life is like a box of chocolate, sometimes its just empty
I think for an individual such as yourself it MAY prove useful but again is it cost affective?
So for a moment say someone such as yourself has several thousand names and knows they will receive a handful of udrp’s (deserved or not) just because of the size of the portfolio. What is the cost per name to insure multiplied by X or XX thousand? Does that cost come in UNDER your average payout in legal fee’s to defend each year?
Furthermore you would have to assume you won those future udrp’s to make the insurance worth buying…
All I am saying is for the avergae domainer it is not worth it since their portfolio size would not justify it. For the average typo owner which there are plenty, it is not worth it for obvious reasons and lastly for someone such as yourself the cost/affect may not be worth it either.
I can imagine the unavergae domain owner may want to buy it on 1-2-5 names just to buy peace of mind but you cannot build a rar on those numbers. jmo
Josh
Its a business decision the cost to register new a .com is $11.15
There are plenty of sites like networksolutions.com and register.com just to name 2 that you will pay more and not get this feature.
The rack rate at Godaddy is almost $13.
So depending on the registrar you use and the rate you pay this can really be a no cost benefit
– A list of attorneys offering special rates to our members.
– And if you won the UDRP, we’ll reimburse you the legal fees spent to defend you!
Just want to check if someone else can correct me but the way this reads is that they will provide you with a list of lawyers from you to choose from who work with them and will offer you a special rate. If the lawyer that works with them loses your case they will save money.
Is that right?
Back
Its not exactly clear if you have to use one of the recommended lawyers to get the legal fees back if you win, we are going to have to wait for Francois to comment, I sent him an email on it
So the cost may be a non factor, if that is the case a large portfolio own who hasn’t tried to take advantage of that fact to get a discount may find it works for them I suppose.
So at this point there is really no additional cost?
Josh
That’s what i’m saying there is no cost for the insurance if your paying $11.15 or more for registrations/renewals
If your paying $10 then its costing you $1.15 a domain
So for a large portfolio it may or may not be worth it based on potential existing bulk diuscount and avergae legal fee’s a year to defend etc. Again cost/affect.
So still seeing it more as a buy a very small domainer or non domainer may make. Not a bad thing at all, may help boost the rar’s numbers, all the best to him.
@Mann o War
Yes the assurance cover all your domains at DONA.com
Now if they are Facebook typos and Facebook is the complainant, there are big chances you do not win your UDRP.
@Josh
I own less than 500 domains and if you consider half are domain related names then we are speaking about around 200 names.
And I have been hit by an UDRP on a French generic term.
So as you seen, there is no need to own dozen of thousands domains to be at risk.
Trust me, it’s only the beginning, as people discover there is a small chance to get a good domain firing an UDRP the rate should explode and if the new cheaper version is adopted, be ready to live a nightmare!
@Back in the real World
First, an attorney should always prefer you defend the case because he will be paid that you win or lost.
Second, nobody want to hire attorneys who use to lost cases, so I don’t think attorneys will accept to lost any case for our interest, they will quickly burn their notoriety and future!
Third, these attorneys we will suggest are all well known attorneys having won many cases who simply accept to offer free UDRP legal advice to our members and agree to propose a special rate if hey are part of the suggested list.
And last, you have no obligation to get defended by any of the attorneys we will suggest you to get paid if your UDRP is won.
Simply to limit possible abuse we will cap to $5,000 the maximum amount paid per winning case. We will also need the owner had his domain registered with DONA at least 3 months before the UDRP case be fired for the same reason.
Good answers.
I think for people who are above board this service offers another layer of protection.
Good luck with it.
I guarantee that stop this “coverage” after the first “pay-out”. I sold EscrowDNS after I had to cover thousands of dollars in charge backs on credit cards even after I had took every single precaution to accept credit cards, and still, I was burned to the tune of about $10k total. I realize at the moment this seems like a good pitch to get new business for Francois, but he will not be able to sustain it. As we have seen, UDRPs are not being filed for fresh regs, its domain names that have been registered for the last decade. If we were to transfer these decade old domains to DONA.com, leave them there for 3 months, we will have coverage after that? Registrations prices are not too bad based on the “protection”, I pay $7.99 at GD and $8.49 at Dynadot.
I agree with Justin. UDRP’s only really occur on ‘valuable’ domains,
usually generic’s; the kind that co’s really really want.. and THOSE
domains were, for the most part, regged many years ago…
@Justin
We run ECOP.com for one year now so I understand your concerns as we also had our lot of hassles, but the service is still there, we simply improved it so past problems are now better managed. We will do the same with DONA.com
What may happen is that we made a bad estimation of the average percentage of domains that can be hit by an UDRP, or that it significantly grows. In this case the solution is simple and there is no other, raise the registration/renewal price so we are able to continue running the service. It’s the same model as insurance, everyone pay a very small fee to cover risk but if damages are bigger than expected then the next year quote is more expensive. If this may happen and you feel you are no longer interested then you are free to not renew names at DONA.com and transfer them to another registrar, there is no loss.
No need to pick on Francios. It’s an enom reseller so if it fails you end up at enom until you either want to transfer our or stay. Frankly sounds to me like he’s trying to do us all a favor, as I would not be surprised to see at least one other registrar follow suit with a similar concept.
And @ Justin & Ri.sk, lame domains get hit with UDRPS also, my dad got hit with one and the domain included my father’s name, and the domain contained a dash “-“. It was the domain my dad had used for his business (not a domainer) for 10 years already so it wasn’t a new domain, but I can tell you if it wasn’t registered by my dad it would still be available because it was that bad a domain. I don’t want to list the domain here because the complainant dropped the case after John Berryhill’s initial response. Still a UDRP & still cost my dad $.
Another excellent idea from one of the most creative minds in the biz.
That said, Francois, you should understand that at least here in the U.S., there are an entire set of laws, rules, regulations, and requirements required in order to even offer–much less to actually supply–“insurance.”
Some at the federal level, others at the individual state level. And some of the laws carry jail time if they’re broken/not followed.
It would be best if you spoke to an appropriate insurance specialist attorney before continuing to call what you (want to) offer as, “insurance.”
Simple.
Move your domain names to Dona.com. Have a friend file a frivolous UDRP complaint against one of your generic domain names. Defend and win the UDRP. Get reimbursed. Meet up and split the reimbursement later.
@JP
I also will not surprised to see another registrars pick the idea and honestly if this happen it will be a success, what I just would like is they make the favor to share a small percentage of their profit with the Internet Commerce Association (ICA) because it’s really critical we improve UDRP so domain owner rights are better defended. It’s only united behind a large and strong association our voice can be heard.
@Steve M
I read in many blogs that in USA the “insurance” term cannot be used freely. I just remind you we are a French corporation. Now I am not against use another term if anyone can find one with a similar meaning that can be understand by most people.
@John Berryhill
It’s nice to also read you here John. I had this trick in mind, even if I doubt a lawyer will take such risk for a so low amount. A possible way to limit this risk is limit payment to $3,000 maximum when the attorney is not part of the list of suggested attorneys. It has the double advantage to better reward the attorneys that have accepted to cooperate with DONA offering free advice to those hit by an UDRP.
In a side note I also have in mind on how we can publicly expose authors of frivolous UDRP or domain hijackers, first to refrain such practices and second to maybe recover part of our money spent on assist domain owners. Reputation worth more than few thousands dollars…
————————————————————
” About 85% of all UDRP’s go in favor of the complainant, ”
————————————————————
There’s the big picture.
The system is flawed and is increasingly being Abused and misused.
There is always hope that someday, it may become a Fair system.
But …that’s gonna take a Whole Lot of Money and a Whole Lot of Power.
Re: the ‘frivolous UDRP complaint’ scenario
Agree with Francois it is highly unlikely a “lawyer will take such risk for a so low amount”. I doubt it even necessary to consider a reduced payout (e.g. $3,000) for ‘non-suggested attorneys’ since the maximum $5,000 reimbursement only translates to a paltry $1,750 payout for each coconspirator.
Using WIPO costs:
complainant requested 1-member panel: $1,500 (100% complainant) ***
complainant requested 3-member panel: $4,000 (100% complainant)
respondent requested 3-member panel: $4,000 (50% complainant / 50% respondent)
So, assuming Dona.com reimburses the maximum $5,000 for ‘winning’ the UDRP, and the least expensive 1-member panel is used ($1,500 cost paid by complainant) that leaves only $3,500 (or, $1,750 each).
Seems an awfully small monetary gain for committing an act of fraud, especially for a lawyer.
Lawyers do not like stability, they like confusion thus fear, that how they make money!!
LOL
This Francois Cardildo plays loose & fast…
Like his UNLICENSED & UNBONDED “escrow” company, eCop.com…
You people should know that any escrow company that is unlicensed in any juridiction in the world is illegal.
REAL Escrow cos also need to be BONDED
And even licensed escrow cos need to be licensed to accept customers who reside in certain states in the US
FACT: for the record eCop.com is UNLICENSED (and UNBONDED)….therefore TRADING ILLEGALLY
@berryhill
Simple yea but does my friend get to file the udrp for free? If not what are we splitting?
I have nothing against Francois, I just wonder if the small amount he’s making from being an Enom seller on top of the 30% of profits he states he is donating to the ICA is going to be enough to cover 3-5k. He’s going to need a lot of transfers and registrations just to cover one successful UDRP.
Justin
I have the same concerns as I stated above.
Assuming you collect 100% of the revenue you expect its a numbers game if the $2-3 he will make per domain will cover the UDRP costs.
As I said yesterday I think it does make the registrar an attractive alternative to the norm and certainly hope he is very successful with it.
ggro
I believe ecop uses a licensed US attorney who acts as escrow agent who is licensed but Francois would need to address your comment directly.
Thanks Francois ,
Just to come up with such an idea to defend our rights should be appreciated . This is the first steps of many to come , and as log as you have good intention , you will overcome all obstacles
I wish that you come up with a newsletter of how to defend against domain hijackers,
Good Luck
I don’t see any registrar accreditation, though. Is it pending or so?
@Dave,
They are an Enom reseller, as such, they fall under that accreditation.
I mentioned in the original post that they are a Enom domain reseller like namecheap.com
UPDATE
This project has been cancelled
http://www.domainware.com/2012/05/the-udrp-insurance-project-has-been-cancelled/
Not a big surprise; too many hurdles to overcome.