Well over the weekend it looks like I won an award from DomainNameMojo for having the “Most Overpriced Sale Of 2011″”
Well thanks
Where can I pick up the award?
The blogger goes on (and on) to state:
“As you may already know, WWMI sold BoatingIndustry.com for $25,000 on Afternic.”
“The domain is far overpriced. ”
“Afternic evaluates the price of domains to protect the integrity of their domain name sales platform. In no way, shape or form is this domain even worth 10% of the sales amount.”
“CampingWorld.com paid $25,000 to acquire BoatingIndustry.com. The domain stats are mediocre at best, especially when it was originally registered back in 2002. Afternic has notified me to reduce the price of several domains that are worth far more than the domain they allowed to sell at multiple times its worth.”
“Afternic claims they evaluate domain prices to protect the integrity of their sales platform.”
“What I don’t understand is how they let an overpriced domain such as BoatingIndustry.com to sell for $25,000. There is no way to justify the sale.”
“I consider BoatingIndustry.com the most overpriced sale of 2011.”
“In my opinion, WWMI and Afternic overprice their domains to take advantage of the end-user. End-users don’t stand a chance in the face of these companies. These companies have a used-car salesman mentality, which makes it hard for average domainers to function without experiencing conflict when contacting an end-user.”
“IMO, WWMI and Afternic seem to focus on maximizing every sale to the fullest instead of running a fair system. ”
“IMO, as an end-user, you can’t expect to buy a domain from these domain companies at a fair price. Be prepared to overspend to acquire a domain.”
“In my opinion, they will take advantage of the end-user until they get the price they want.”
“I respect TheDomains blog owner for maximizing his sales, but it does nothing to improve the quality of our lives.”
“The domain offers he rejects sometimes infuriates end-users to point in which they are unprofessional to average domainers. The WWMI owner already overcharges internal tourism bureaus on visit (city or country) dot com domains.”
So you got me.
I’m in business to make money.
Yet in my defense, I’m not one of those domainers that tell every end user that comes along that I will only consider offers into the six figures as some do and have done for years.
If we overpriced all the domain we had would we consistently sell seven figures of domains every year, year after year?
Would companies be able to buy a domain for chump change, or what the blogger would consider a small fortune and then move on to win the TechCrunch Disputer award and the $50K cash price or become a site that is seen on every TV program for several weeks.
So my contribution back to the domain community comes not from giving my property away for pennies on the dollars but by publishing TheDomains.com and giving all who want to read it some insight into the business of domaining, hopefully to improve their bottom lines.
To that end here’s a couple of more thoughts:
Has anyone you ever sold a domain too for too little come back to you and thanked you?
Offered you extra money, a bonus for giving them the chance to acquire a domain for a bargain basement price?
Has anyone in a overwhelming sense of guilt sent you more money after they hit it big on a domain you sold way to cheap?
I didn’t think so.
Are you still selling domains based on “The domain’s stats?
Really in 2011?
“The keywords are not even searched 1,000 times per month. ”
Who cares.
If you have a brandable and/or memorable domain, or one that covers an industry for chump change, then you’re a chump.
Now back to that award.
Feel free to engrave
I will proudly display it right next to the Domainer of the Year Award and the Domain Hall Of Fame plaque that sits proudly in my office.
please, share with us the tricks to sell overpriced domains, thanks 🙂
Did MHD do the hornjacker.com sale? (was it really $350,000???)
Teddy
Don’t know anything about the hornjacker.com “sale” other than a couple of comments posted here
Do You or anyone else have an independent verification of a transaction?
man this guy says “IMO” a shit load of times. Just about every paragraph starts with that.
Funny I just wrote that you gave away a $50K domain too cheap considering what the buyer can do with it
http://fragerfactor.blogspot.com/2011/07/mike-berkens-mug-shot.html
Cheap to cheap – one of the biggest industry in the world – BARGAIN –
Sometimes common sense doesn’t make sense for some. I mean. if its your domain, then you can do whatever you want to do with it – including pricing it YOUR WAY. I don’t see how other people can dictate how much you can sell your house for, your land, heck.. your domain. On a lighter note, I made a recent sale in the mid $x,xxx for a domain that most investors wouldn’t hand register. It’s all about research, identifying other companies needs, and selling for the right price. Had the DNMojo blogger sold the domain, would he mention anything about overpricing? Absolutely Not.
Mike, approximately what was the price range in which you sold GetAround.com?
LOL … its visitberlin Part Deux 😉
“Typical mindset of a domain elitist”
domainnamemojo.blogspot.com/search?q=visitberlin.com
I guess he doesn’t like to see someone else getting good sales unless it fits his exact match search criteria.
Congrats on your “Mojo Award” MHB….. but in all honesty I hope you don’t get to hang on to it for too long 🙂
3 years from now, this blogger will be eating his words…if he is still in the industry. Thanks Mike for moving this industry forward!
I read the whole article and its confusing at best. If he was on the other side of the aisle I would understand his position. I would not agree with it, but I would understand if he was a Cadna loving communist or socialist.
But he is looking to sell domains he is looking to sell them for more than he bought them for and make money.
The line about WWMI is trying to maximize profits, is really out there. Is that not the purpose of investing ? Maximizing return.
He then says he knows he can never sell writingindustry.com for a fair price. Why ? Not that its an exact science, but having a keywordindustry.com sale can only help promoting his own domain.
Lets not forget that a domain is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay. If someone pays 25k for a name, they obviously see a benefit of spending that kind of money, otherwise they would just move on. “IMO”, great job with the sale Mike. You guys have a consistent track record and have helped out domaining in becoming a more accepted industry. Cheers!
I don’t think BoatingIndustry.com deserves the award. MHB sold TheMeditator.com for $30000 and is far more overpriced. At the time all other tlds were available.
Yep totally awesome sale, here’s wishing you receive plenty more such awards for a long time to come!
WIG
Same price $25k
Congratulations on the award.
I hope you receive more in the future.
You might want to see if he also offers a ‘hall a fame’ award.
“please, share with us the tricks to sell overpriced domains, thanks”
I don’t think there are any tricks to this. You want to sell for high prices? Ask for them. That’s it.
If the buyer doesn’t want to, wait for until one does.
Oh, I forgot one thing: You better have a great portfolio of domains that will generate revenue or sales to be able to do that. That’s the dirty little secret.
The title of that site is “Find your Groove in Domaining – The Art of Buying and Flipping Domain Names for Profit”
LOL.
From what I see on his website, I think MHB should get this award practically every week!
ten years ago majority were thinking porno.com that Rick bought was overpriced back then. but now???
You’re ruthless MHB. I bet you also enjoy kicking puppies.
😉
I love this quote:
—
“I respect TheDomains blog owner for maximizing his sales, but it does nothing to improve the quality of our lives.”
—
Yeah, improve the quality of our lives, MHB! You selfish little… Anyway, I said it before, I think 25K was on the low side. But someone obviously thought it was at least on the “just right” side, because they paid it. There are tons of people who will try to buy your domains for $500 or $1,000, if you let them. I have a great domain from 1998 with the .com and additional tlds including the plural version of the name, that I couldn’t believe someone offered only $1K for. Try multiplying that by at least 300-400…. or at at the very least, don’t insult me too much, and offer $25K. That’s the lowest offer I usually get from any of my ’90s domains. Then I know you’re not just trying to rob me blind and then flip it (laughing to the bank) to someone else in a week for at least $100K. (And then they flip it for more… etc.)
I’m in business to make money.
Yet in my defense,
///////////
No need to defend, most us hope for outcomes like this, probably the guy who wrote that piece as well.
Lets not forget that a domain is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay.
///////////
C’mon that is fluff, something isn’t simply worth what someone pays, they may have way underpaid or way overpaid. If sex.com sold for 200k nobody would be saying it must be worth what the buyer paid.
I wish some of my domains were worth what I paid for them 🙂 There is some I’d sell in a heartbeat for what I paid.
Why should anyone give a fuck about the opinions of “DomainNameMojo”? Because he has a blog?
He appears to be someone who, fundamentally, ‘doesn’t get it’ on domain speculating or reselling; even more amusingly, is apt to write long-winded analysis in obliviously detailed demonstration of this.
If I recall correctly, this is the same guy who used to post comments on TheDomains.com, usually making similar lamentations, then talking about the ‘resume domains’ he hand-registered three days back and about how bright the future is…
PS. Very nice sale, tho.
If they started lower and worked up, unless they tipped their hand in some way, I don’t think I would’ve had the stones to hold out for $25K on that one.
The availability of the .nets confirms that boatingindustry and themeditator are pretty ordinary domains. Several reasons can be proposed for their prices:
1. People not wanting to be beaten and forced to change direction because of a speculator.
2. They’d rather not go with ‘second choice’ domain, even if really just as suited.
3. People are often over-optimistic about their ideas.
Buyers of goods normally have alternatives that will satisfy them almost as much. Therefore, sellers must sell at ‘market prices’ ie. Winning bidder pays only a little more than second highest bid.
But because of above, or eg. a business that cannot easily change name, domain sellers are often able to completely ignore what anyone else would pay. Whether or not this is reasonable seems to be a matter of opinion.
> Offered you extra money, a bonus for giving them the chance to acquire a domain for a bargain basement price?
Actually I think this has happened once or twice…
I just wanted to say congratulations.
Brad
First, I wondered is it the same guy who insulted you because you wouldn’t sell him, MotorcycleHelmets for $11,000. Now I realize it’s Jason. I like him. Hope he succeeds. The only sad part of the article is, $25,000 is not that huge a sum to be bitter about! If he has WritingIndustry, more power to him. Hope he develops it into something great! More and more online success is due to content. As companies like, Textbroker, crop up, there might be call for a directory of writing companies for online content.
As Warren Buffet says – “you only know if someone is swimming naked when the tide goes out”
Let me see the genius portfolio behind DomainNameMojo !!!
There are a lot of bottom feeding Paper Tiger geniuses in this “DomaininIndustry.com”
In my book – it is just a great sale – congrats Michael.
If he has WritingIndustry, more power to him. Hope he develops it into something great! More and more online success is due to content. As companies like, Textbroker, crop up, there might be call for a directory of writing companies for online content
////////////////
In my view the two names are world’s apart, “boating industry” sounds very much like an association type name to me, there is loads of companies using similar domains and there is a fairly big magazine on the dash version.
I don’t really see where “writing industry” would fit in, looking through google I couldn’t find a single site using a name similar to “writing industry” so I don’t see where the demand would come from in terms of a premium sale. As they say in domains “a miss is as good as a mile”.
Sad day – bought Broadscape.com for $1,000 two years ago; just agreed to sell for $4,500. Domaining isn’t for me.
Before people suggest Michael buy the next round
of drinks, don’t forget Michael had to pay 10-20%
commission to NameMedia.
(depending on what type of deal he has with them)
Incidentally, did the plaque show up today?
Overall feelings about this is the the blog writer does not know the difference between a good domain and a bad domain, he says he wants a “fair price” for worthless names like writingindustry.com and resumeindustry.com yet can’t understand the boatingindustry.com sale. I think the price was very high, but this is not a low quality name either, there is obvious buyers using variants of this name.
I think we see this a lot, people see a “good” or even high quality name sell, then compare it to something that might appear similar (eg different word, extra letter etc) and think that that name is comparable (eg worth 10%, 50% etc) when in reality usually the supposedly comparable name is worth nothing.
Sad day – bought Broadscape.com for $1,000 two years ago; just agreed to sell for $4,500. Domaining isn’t for me.
—–
Think you’re going to do any better in equities or bonds? If you could duplicate that 111% annualized return and relentlessly bootstrapped, starting with just that $4500, you’d be god rich in 15 years.
You don’t have to publish this. By way of contacting you, I’ll put a couple available hand reg’s in here:
BoatsforSale.tv
SyncSoftware.org
which I noticed. Appreciate you spend $$ on bandwidth for this site, and all you do!
🙂
HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!
I think you guys should take a closer look at the Admin Contact for boating-industry.com
🙂
“HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!
I think you guys should take a closer look at the Admin Contact for boating-industry.com”
That is a great observation.
In the original posting last week, I stated that Boating-Industry.com stats were probably why CampingWorld bought BoatingIndustry.com
However, I totally missed that the admin. ownership changed in Jan. 2011.
I kept looking at the registrant ownership.
That explains the nice selling price.
@Chris
I used IMO because I’m not going to make a concrete statement. Since you hang around domain blogs a lot, you know that IMO is to distance yourself from impacting a business. The post is my perception. It’s my belief that elite domain investors, including Mike, get prices that most cannot imagine. Close-minded people can think otherwise.
If you’re making consistent sales, then you have no problem believing in the overpriced domains. It doesn’t take experience to realize most will not pay that amount.
For example, one end-user paid $2k for a domain. I located the whois. I then offered him three domains that are just as good as the one he purchased. I received an immediate response requesting the price. I replied back with $1500 for the three domains. Two hours later, the buyer noted he will pass. I sent another e-mail to accommodate the buyer. He never responded again. This happened last week with my resume portfolio. A resume company requested the price, and then backed off soon after. The resume company needed at least 30 of the domains.
Price is a big factor. Most people sit on blogs and read about big sales as if they are easy. Selling good domains is not that easy. People will reject top generic keywords because the price is too high. I have proof to support that claim. One top 10 domainer rejected a top generic domains from 1996. He noted the price is too high.
Domain stats are important. An end-user will not pay top dollars for a domain with no stats and traffic. However, you can sell a domain that generates revenue to many companies. Even sex companies go after the high traffic sites to point to their website.
@Snoopy,
I never said those two industry domains compared to the overpriced boating domain. You’re one of those followers that go along with what you believe is the norm. Same people that are one-sided in discussions.
The boating industry is not as big as you think. I can see ifthe film industry, medical device industry, food industry, medical industry and other industries as competitive industry domains. If I sold the two industry domains, I would not even ask 5% of the sales price of the boating domain.
You don’t need to own a top domain portfolio to state your opinion. I can name 5 domains owned by another domainer that end-users rejected at the same price as boating industry. These two domains are worth far more and have a larger online market. These end-users usually ask your company name. If you state your company is WWMI, they will probably shovel out the cash.
First and foremost, I doubt I could sell boatingindsutry.com unless I’m offering it to CampingWorld.com – Alexa 22,000 and deep pockets. Name a list of 10 end-users beyond Camping World who will pay $25,000 for the domain. Name 10 people beyond the Berlin Travel Bureau who would have paid $230K for VisitBerlin.com. Teh Berlin Travel agency put themselves in a position to pay that high price – they tun VisitBerlin.de. Now every person who owns a visit domain wants six figures.
For a company to pay $25,000 to acquire the .com when all extensions are available is not too smart. Immediately after I left a comment regarding the availability of the extensions, they were then registered. Google once turned down ADSense.com when they believed their AdSense.net was good enough. Eventually, Google acquired the domain in 2006.
Besides domain investors who own companies, name a domain and a price on a sale you believed was overpriced. I usually see xxx,xxx, or xx,xxx and some domain. I received offers and immediate replies. Price offends end-users. There is a need for the domain. My prices are fair. Once these end-users decline, you will never hear from them again. The secret to selling overpriced domains is to start a company.
In my opinion, WWMI sells high because they can. WWMI can reject offers that will make any ordinary domainer rich. One past WWMI buyer admitted getting ripped off. I have an e-mail to prove it. There is no need to post the e-mail or name the person because the overpriced site is essentially worthless to them. Furthermore, I don’t operate like blog – ie. listing the motorcycle helmet person who offended you. You wanted far more for this site.
Thanks for the traffic surge yesterday. I generated more traffic in one day than in the previous month. A few domainers here that have left good comments on my past blogs are negative toward my article.
The main reason I wrote the article is to demonstrate that not just any domainer can make an overpriced sale.
Does everyone who reads TheDomains truly believe that Mike sells his domains at the market price? Or does Mike sell high because the end-user becomes desperate to acquire the domain.
If BoatingIndustry.com was such a valuable industry, then every extension would have been taken. At the time of the sale, only the dot com was taken. Once I mentioned the available extensions, people then registered them.
Domain stats are important; end-users purchasing job domains prefer high searches. Business plans are also important as well (cityville.com). I would like to see an article supporting why boatingindustry.com deserved the $25,000 price tag.
@Jason
What is with ???ville.com domains – something with Farmville.com ? – in my case Townville.com and about 10 others including Carville.com for obvious other reasons as well.
IMO – Good job. 😉
Luke
I never said those two industry domains compared to the overpriced boating domain. You’re one of those followers that go along with what you believe is the norm. Same people that are one-sided in discussions.
/////////////
You were complaining about not getting a “fair price” for resumeindustry.com and rewitingindustry.com. I think what you are missing is that the fair price for those names is $0. You’ve written off a “good” name and hope to get a fair price for worthless names. In truth is someone bought those names for say $50 they’d be paying way too much.
I never said the 25k sale was market value for boatingindustry.com, I said it seemed very high, it is still a strong name though. You can’t understand that and I can see why, you are are trying to prop up your own worthless names while moaning about others sales, the issue is lack of knowledge you can’t spot a bad name (your own) and you can’t spot the good names of others, the end result is low sales.
@Snoopy,
Before you start judging my names, you should know exactly what I own. The two names don’t define my portfolio. The point is that the names can be developed bvause there is an online market.
$25K is steep. Without boating-industry.com doing the good deed, the sale would not have reached $25K. No random domainer is going to pull off that sale. I suppose WWMI has to pay overhead costs, so it makes sense to sell extremely high.
You judge my portfolio, not knowing I pulled off a 4 figure sale to a high traffic resume company (top service). I’ve sold 25 generic job sites. I do understand the value of domain. You don’t see me trying to get praise.
I don’t agree with the sale of boatingindustry.com when every extension was available at the time of the deal. That speaks volume about the value.
It’s easy for you to judge based on two names. I used them as a reference to show that not just any industry name commands attention.
The first thing people mention here is what I own, my sales and that I wouldn’t be complaining if it were my sale. If I sold a domain at that price, I wouldn’t mention it. It takes the attention away from covering more important news such as the sale of boatingindustry.com.
I never devalued Mike’s portfolio. I know he owns nearly 80,000 domains, some domains which can sell in the upper 6 figures or more.
Everyone here can accept that some domain sales don’t deserve criticism.
Am I wrong to acquire 15 California city job domains, or to put together 80 keyword resume and cover letter domains? What about finding good job domains and moving many of them.
I may not be an expert, but I know what a good domain name is, and one that deserves a $25K sale. If I owned a similar name in another category, it would be intereting to cold call or send out sales pitches to ask $30K. How many replies would I get back? 0.
A company such as WWMI commands respect, even though I don’t agree with several sales. I never challenged that every domain is overpriced.
The fun part of domaining is to communicate with the people you assume that made a good purchase. It ruins future sales for others.
“you should know exactly what I own”
Ok, post the names up then.
“The point is that the names can be developed bvause there is an online market.”
Nobody is likely to pay you anything for resumeindustry.com or writingindustry.com because there really is no such thing. There is some references on Google but that is it, no magazines, no industry bodies called that. There is no list of obvious buyers that would make a domain valuable. It is a bit like someone who sells desks saying “I am part of the desk industry”. Basically all we have here is random words with “industry” on the end. Now if it really was a term that people brand under that would be a different thing entirely.
“$25K is steep. Without boating-industry.com doing the good deed, the sale would not have reached $25K.”
The most obvious buyer was boating-industry.com and the price did reach 25k, deal with it in whatever way you can instead of thinking up “what if” scenarios.
@Brian,
The ville names seem to work well for Zynga. Moreover, the ville domains are good brandable names.
They fit the formula – memorable, short, and innovative. People seem to but when there is demand. You see it in the Hollywood collectible auctions. There is a moment of silence. Right before the item will pass, a phone bid comes in ane then everyone behins bidding.
Ville domains are catchy. One success story translates into demand. Thanks.
@Snoopy,
I admit that I should have kept out the two industry domains to maintain continuity regarding the high sale. However, there is writing industry – not a random name with industry placed at the end (resume writing, freelance writing, copy writing, film writing, medical writing, newsletter writing, and etc.)
I’ll post one name I own. I usually withhold a name because then people tend to miss the point.
1932Quarter dot com (registered after watching Pawn Stars episode on July 19)
The domain generated 17,000 unique and 300 ad clicks per month since January. After Google Panda hit the site a few months ago, the traffic evaporated (Google and WhyPark dilemma – while my eHow articles still remain indexed).
The 1932 Quarter is the first George Washington quarter to commemorate his 200th birthday. eBay auctions off thousands of 1932 quarters at any time. I also own the plural and the 1932 S quarter versions. Valuable domain with good links, quality articles and an ebay affiliate account. Coinflation.com owns every year after, but does not own the first year.
I plan to move several sites off WhyPark, especially since many of my keyword domains there are getting de indexed. Even with quality content, (imo) it seems that Google dislikes WhyPark (imo, WhyPark works with Yahoo and Bing)
I can deal with the sale. The $21,000 after commission will not be reach my bank account to better my life. Despite earning a few AA degrees, one BA, and Master’s degree, the education hasn’t amounted to many opportunities beyond my ability to write.
I shouldn’t be viewed as a domainer with no knowledge. I guess you have to sell 5-7 figure domains to command any respect in the domain industry.
@Brian,
The ville names seem to work well for Zynga. Moreover, the ville domains are good brandable names.
They fit the formula – memorable, short, and innovative. People seem to but when there is demand. You see it in the Hollywood collectible auctions. There is a moment of silence. Right before the item will pass, a phone bid comes in and then everyone begins bidding.
Ville domains are catchy. One success story translates into demand. Thanks.
@Snoopy,
I sold a builder name to a resume company in the 4 figure range. I registered 80 resume domains between Sept and Dec. I registered the builder domain three prior to the sale, knowing which company already depended on the service.
I don’t register any random domains. I purchased BoxOfficeWeekend dot com last summer. My friend designed the logo and the site reached 3,500 unique two months ago based on my movie reviews.
I acquired CoverLetterService dot com on the cheap in a GoDaddy auction in January. I’m confident I can sell the domain. I recently picked up AlternativeMesotheliomaTreatment dot com very cheap. I sold CoverLetterWriters dot com to a cover letter service company back in January.
While I don’t purchase top domains and make major sales like most of you, I have an idea of which domains can sell. I don’t make a living domaining. I don’t think any random domainer can write consistently about domains without having some knowledge of the domain industry.
“However, there is writing industry – not a random name with industry placed at the end (resume writing, freelance writing, copy writing, film writing, medical writing, newsletter writing, and etc.)”
/////////////
Show me an example of anyone branding under that term?
It doesn’t really mean anything much, it might be used by some in Google but there is really no such thing as the “writing industry”. Searching in Google it is obvious that nobody uses the term as an organisation name (eg there is no “writing industry association” and if nobody does name themselves with the term then who is the name going to be sold to?
The domain name says it all BloatingIndustry.com ..The buyer might have been jacked on crack and hallucinated he hit a gold mine, or an insider bought it just to make a new blog..either way, the way i see it, there are buyers and sellers, and that’s what makes the economy circulate. But I would have sold him one worth buying for $25.000 . I guess he had the extra cash and was tired of carrying it around..that’s the kind of friends I need right now…lol
@snoopy
“Searching in Google ”
I am pretty sure we might agree of this – as I do not play by the rules set forth by the court appointed monoplies.
When you own an intuitive .com – who cares about the yahoo, bing, google SEO wankers who buy you a sandwich on Thankgiving just to park your domains on their platform as if that is what the Internet and advertising is all about ????
@Snoopy
I never planned to invest time into selling WritingIndustry. Whereas there is no obvious writing industry, it wouldn’t be hard to build the domain.
Academic writing is popular. Resume writing is in demand. I suppose I can add examples and samples to build traffic.
I’m not banking on the two domains. If boating industry was such a popular term online, shouldn’t it be searched more? I know a few buyers that will not purchase a domain with low searches.
A small business with little revenue would have purchased the dot net for $8. At the time of the sale, every extension was available. That’s hard to believe for a $25k dot com sale. Most cloud domains of all types and extensions are registered.
Probably just be a vanity purchase!
If boating industry was such a popular term online, shouldn’t it be searched more? I know a few buyers that will not purchase a domain with low searches.
//////////////////
It is not a very popular term, it mainly functions as a name ie “boating industry magazine”, “boating industry association”. Not everyone buys a name because of search popularity, some people buy a name because it is the name of their company, their product. There is one really obvious buyer and lots of other potential buyers for the name.
Compare that with “writingindustry.com”.
Honk Honk ..A domain is worth what the buyer buys it for , and that include BoatingIndustry.com ..at least to the buyer anyways, it’s like the old saying , beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I want to sell my domains to the beholding, that is those who have the capacity to THINK BIG and see BIG. If you want a Krystal burger go to crystals. If you want world action, well that’s another game.
Wall mart and Kmart domain sales sites won’t be selling my domains, because I am not going to play by the rules of the self appointed monopolies. It’s a very BIG WORLD and the markets are huge, and a unique breed of men are beholding the domains I hold.. So I say super size your order..or go to wall mart domains, and buy a tinker toy domain..lol
@Snoopy,
Using your domain formula, then my OnlineGamingCompany dot com should attract future attention. Forget about the writingindustry dot com discussion.
I never thought the writing industry domain was worth any money or even attempted to sell the domain. I realize there is a bigger market for the boating industry; however, there are several industry domains that are more deserving of a $25K sale.
As for onlinegamingcompany and onlinegamingcompanies dot com, I believe there is a huge market for online gaming domains. Zynga and Bwin.Party and other online gaming companies use “online gaming company” to describe their company. According to the Wall Street Journal, the online gaming company Zynga filed for an IPO.
For the most part, asking high prices offends some end-users. On several occasions, I lost sales based on the asking price. These end-users usually pass on the price after showing initial interest. Most of the time, they will never make contact again. It is an uphill battle to build interest in the domain again.
Many domainers can’t afford to pay renewal costs for 1,000 domains. Parking companies are paying out little revenue because they figure that domain owners have no clue about the actual revenue agreement established between the sponsor and the domain parking company. Education ad clicks are not as lucrative.
These domainers may not receive consistent offers as another who owns 80,000, 240,000 and or 380,000 domains in many niches. They are not in a position to negotiate or reject offers, especially when there is a financial need. Prices must be set accordingly to prevent losing a sale. You can’t just ask any price on any domain. You must first establish an obvious need.
“Using your domain formula, then my OnlineGamingCompany dot com should attract future attention.”
///////////
Makes no sense to me, why would anyone brand with a term like that?
It is nothing like “boating industry” when many organisations currently use the name as their brand (or variants of it like “boating industry association”).
Like debating a wall.
@Snoopy
Why would anyone brand with many domain names don’t make sense? Companies brand domains based on name they make up. The quality of the content is what counts most. OnlineGamingCompany has potential. You will see soon enough.
BoatingWorld.com has more branding appeal than BoatingIndustry.com. People view Boating Industry as a macro term instead of as a micro name such as the world name mentioned above.
I would like to see another name with less than 1,000 searches sell for $25,000, excluding a 4 character dot com. You noted that boating industry is not a common searched term. With only the dot com registered as recent as last week, the $25,000 price tag is too steep.
Someone mentioned that I would oppose the sale if I owned the domain. However, I would have never asked for such high price. How many more end-users would have competed to secure the domain? Would Frank have sold the name for $25,000? What about Sedo?
WWMI has sold several domains too cheap. Nonetheless, they overprice domains to get what they think a domain is worth. Would Rick put his reputation on the line to determine the boatingindustry.com sale is worth $25,000 or more?
The two most overpriced names are BoatingIndustry.com and VisitBerlin.com. With no VisitStockholm.com sale and with VisitBerlin.de declining to up their offer on a name they made popular, would the domain have fetched $230K? Travel agencies have more funds available than most end-users and private collectors. For the most part, domainers will never pay end-user price.
I can support the elite domainer price claim with a simple e-mail. The boating industry does not have that big of an online market besides boating-industry.com. I can see if the domain is a movie, film, medical, medical device, food, and other lucrative industries.
I admit that sales influence the domain industry. These sales set the bar to increase a domain’s price based on a previous sale. You can say, “I can’t let this domain go for anything less because VisitBerlin.com sold for $230K. My VisitTurkey.com is much more valuable because it represents a nation.” Now every person who owns a visit domain is asking 6 figures.
Where do you draw the line on the price? Why would anyone think BoatingIndustry.com is worth $25,000 (only the buyer that operates in the vertical believes in that name). I can accept the Berlin domain now that VisitCuba.com and others are fetching high prices. VisitFlorida.com is much more valuable due to the state having greater tourism value.
While you think OnlineGamingCompany dot com may not make sense to you, the media identifies an online gaming company as either a cityville-type gaming company or an online gambling company. It would make sense for a company operating several online gaming companies to brand the domain.
I used the writing industry as an example, but never mentioned the domains would attract attention. You think the domain is worth $0. I highly doubt the domain has no market value. If people search for the term, then it has some value. All it takes is for one company to introduce a magazine or coin a term.
End-users have overpaid for domains far less valuable. What doesn’t sense to one person manages to spark interest for another (i.e. boatingindustry.com, camroulette.com, etc.).
The boatingindustry discussed actually influenced a few people to register the remaining extensions.
@LOL,
Walls are like close-minded people who are one-sided in every debate. They’ll never change their position no matter what evidence one provides to support the claim. What I see is most common is that people will praise every sale instead of challenging it.
@Snoopy
Why would anyone brand with many domain names that don’t make sense? Companies brand domains based on names they make up. The quality of the content is what counts most. OnlineGamingCompany has potential. You will see soon enough.
BoatingWorld.com has more branding appeal than BoatingIndustry.com. People view Boating Industry as a macro term instead of as a micro name such as the world name mentioned above.
I would like to see another name with less than 1,000 searches sell for $25,000, excluding a 4 character dot com. You noted that boating industry is not a common searched term. With only the dot com registered as recent as last week, the $25,000 price tag is too steep.
Someone mentioned that I would support the sale if I owned the domain. However, I would have never asked for such a high price. How many more end-users would have competed to secure the domain? Would Frank have sold the name for $25,000? What about Sedo?
WWMI has sold several domains too cheap. Nonetheless, they overprice domains to get what they think a domain is worth. Would Rick put his reputation on the line to support the boatingindustry.com sale as being worth $25,000 or more? Would a domainer have paid $5,000 for the domain before the sale, not knowing a potential buyer ahead of time?
The two most overpriced names are BoatingIndustry.com and VisitBerlin.com. With no VisitStockholm.com sale and with VisitBerlin.de declining to up their offer on a name they made popular, would the domain have fetched $230K? Travel agencies have more funds available than most end-users and private collectors. For the most part, domainers will never pay end-user price.
I can support the elite domainer price claim with a simple e-mail. The boating industry does not have that big of an online market besides boating-industry.com. I can see if the domain is a movie, film, medical, medical device, food, and other lucrative industries.
I admit that sales influence the domain industry. These sales set the bar to increase a domain’s price based on a previous sale. You can say, “I can’t let this domain go for anything less because VisitBerlin.com sold for $230K. My VisitTurkey.com is much more valuable because it represents a nation.” Now every person who owns a visit domain is asking 6 figures.
Where do you draw the line on the price? Why would anyone think BoatingIndustry.com is worth $25,000 (only the buyer that operates in the vertical believes in that name). I can accept the Berlin domain now that VisitCuba.com and others are fetching high prices. VisitFlorida.com is much more valuable due to the state having greater tourism value.
While you think OnlineGamingCompany dot com may not make sense to you, the media identifies an online gaming company as either a cityville-type gaming company or an online gambling company. It would make sense for a company operating several online gaming companies to brand the domain.
I used the writing industry as an example, but never mentioned the domain would attract attention. You think the domain is worth $0. I highly doubt the domain has no market value. If people search for the term, then it has some value. I received a few searches for the term. I will post them on my site. All it takes is for one company to introduce a magazine or coin a term to build value.
End-users have overpaid for domains far less valuable. What doesn’t sense to one person manages to spark interest for another (i.e. boatingindustry.com, camroulette.com, etc.).
The boatingindustry discussion actually influenced a few people to register the remaining extensions.
@LOL,
Walls are like close-minded people who are one-sided in every debate. They’ll never change their position no matter what evidence one provides to support the claim. What I see is most common is that people will praise every sale instead of challenging it.
What a bloody waste of time & keystrokes.
Jason,
Remove my name and your statement about me from your article. Not only do I disagree with the substance of your entire article, your reference to my opinion is absolutely wrong. I believe every domain owner is entitled to price his or her domain name assets at his or her discretion. Also, writing that “Afternic overprices many of their domains” is just stupid because Afternic is a sales venue and doesn’t own domain names. Its sister company owns domain names and can price them however it chooses.
After reading your long rants, I don’t think there’s much of anything we would ever agree about when it comes to domain investing.
Just FYI, I am traveling and posting on an iPad so I probably won’t return to this post, so save your long commentary and just remove my name and reference from your article ASAP.
@Elliot,
I have nothing to comment on. Everything is on the blog. I never said Afternic prices their domains. Domain owners overprice their domains, and then receive an e-mail telling them to reduce the price.
IMO, domain owners overprice their domains on Afternic and then the domain platform receives attention for selling bad domains (I’ll give them credit for a few good sales) That sums it up.
I removed your name from the article and your link from the blog. You won’t be mentioned again.
You have need agreed with me on domain investing? Visit links below. Check comment section.
http://www.elliotsblog.com/afternic-sells-close-to-a-half-million-in-domain-names-last-week-9902
http://www.elliotsblog.com/how-do-i-reply-to-a-domain-offer-4476
@Elliot,
I have nothing to comment on. Everything is on the blog. I never said Afternic prices their domains. Domain owners overprice their domains, and then receive an e-mail telling them to reduce the price.
IMO, domain owners overprice their domains on Afternic and then the domain platform receives attention for selling bad domains (I’ll give them credit for a few good sales) That sums it up.
I removed your name from the article and your link from the blog. You won’t be mentioned again.
You have need agreed with me on domain investing? At least I have a good memory on past posts (check the blog) Thanks for your constructive comment. Travel safely.
Sellers are entitled to price at their discretion. But it is perhaps a pity that there is no mechanism to stop a seller taking advantage of a buyer’s prior investment in a name or idea.
“Sellers are entitled to price at their discretion. But it is perhaps a pity that there is no mechanism to stop a seller taking advantage of a buyer’s prior investment in a name or idea.”
What happens when their idea is not what you had in mind for YOUR domain?
Say I owned a domain like campingworld.com and a guy wanted me to sell it for $2,500 because he wants to set up 10 tents on his land in Ohio and call it Camping World.
I want to wait until a buyer comes along who wants to set up an online shop that sells the whole range of camping gear on the internet and ships on an international level ?
Who’s right?
@Gazzip
Yankee dollars is what is right – yes
@varez
“”Sellers are entitled to price at their discretion. But it is perhaps a pity that there is no mechanism to stop a seller taking advantage of a buyer’s prior investment in a name or idea.””
Big Big Big Big Government is what you are after – best of luck
‘by pricing a name far above what it’s likely to be worth to anyone else’ I should have added, which would overcome your example.
@brian yes difficult to enforce in practice I agree.
Afternic will send an email to a domain owner who overprices a domain. I receive two of them, and adjusted the price accordingly.
I believe domain name platforms use pricing limits (sedo $10,000) to force domain owners to order custom appraisals. Are domain appraisals accurate? Probably not. Every company comes up with a different price.
VisitBerlin.de snoozed. IMO, they made VisitBerlin.com valuable because they didn’t stop upping their offer. Their traffic decline shows it. Name one domainer in the top 10 that would have paid $100k for that name without forecasting the $240K sale.
@jason,
“Are domain appraisals accurate? ”
Stepped in What ???
4 character dot com sell at high prices. Some have low searches. I support those sales because they are likely used as new sites or as a shorter version to their existing site.
This sale puzzles me. I’m not complaining because I know Im unlikely to make a sale like
that.
@Brian,
Domain appraisals are not accurate. GoDaddy charges $15 to tell you that a dot info is worth $40K. You order the more expensive appraisal, and then the value is far less.
In my opinion, domain valuation systems follow the sale price. IMO, epik’s platform throws out high appraisal, but people would rather throw stones at Estibot. I encountered conflict that producing a few articles on how to use domain
valuation.
The best appraisal is probably having a dozen domain experts who have experience weigh in on the appraisals.
I don’t have a problem with domains like optimize.com selling or even redwine.com. I know there are more overpriced domain sales, but at least they make some sense.
The two sales in question sell because the end-user discovers they need the domains and or feel they must have it at all costs.
How many of you would have paid 50% of the price without projecting the future. Wouldn’t a 50% profit be nice? I wouldn’t have risked $12500 on the domain.
Would Sedo’s custom appraisal have stamped a $25K value on the domain? Maybe the hyphenated have value based on sites linking in, traffic, Alexa and backlinks. Domain stats matter because you want to improve your traffic. If you made the hyphenated name valuable and then had to pay an absurd amount to acquire the unhyphenated without any links, sites linking in, then that sucks.
If it were my sale, I would have never reached that price. I wouldn’t think the domain would be worth that amount. I know because I’ve been rejected on presenting domains that don’t deserve the asking price.
I would take $25K for my entire portfolio right now. However, I would have not traded my portfolio for the boating domain. If I could predict the sale, then I would have traded my portfolio to produce that sale. My situtation would be much better. That’s life.
@Jason,
When someone provides unsolicited comps, appraisals and other valuations in an attempt to buy a domain from me – I simply tell them to “why are you contacting us – buy a comp then”.
@ Brian
That makes sense. Better to focus on the domain sale without excess baggage. Congrats on the Minus.com sale. Great domain name and sale.
@Jason,
If your potfolio and revenue stream does not rely on domain sales then…
as Rick says – you cannot piss off the right buyer – and you are not forced to sell a domain you really do not want to sell – and at a price you really do not want to sell it.
And that is why comps, appraisals and other nonsense have no relevance to portfoloio owner who diversify their revenue sources.
Unfortunately many of the posts from other folks suggest they rely on sales – which is a guaranteed recipie for failure
@Brian
It puzzles me when a buyer shows interest and then will refuse to make contact once you reply back with a price. It would make sense at least negotiate.
If I want to buy a BMW, and knew the price was a certain amount, I wouldn’t refuse to buy the car. Essentially, these buyers assumed I was asking a fixed price. You would never hear from then again no matter what you say.
It doesn’t always go this way. I attempted to sell a valuable service domain for another domainer owner. I got into a few heated discussions based on the $20K price tag. The domain is from 1999, has over 5 million average keyword results and is searched 41K exact times a
month.
It’s who you know. I wasted a lot of time talking to people who don’t understand the value. These people assume they can buy a newly registered domain to outperform the 99 version.
When things are not going right, nothing works. You’re right that you can’t depend on domain sales. You should retain a domain to sell at the right price. Make money developing the domains and or through a primary job.
My younger brother lives in Denver. Cool place.
@Jason,
5 Blooks from Coors Field & 5 Blocks from 16th Street Mall in Downtown Denver
Off to the banks noe, then the Tilted Kilt and Earls – for those who know what those fanchises are all about !!!
@Brian
My brother mentioned those places. The Titled Kilt seems like a cool Pub. His family lives near Inglewood. Enjoy the party.
Hogwash on Afternic…I had a bank try to buy BankAlliance.com $250.000 and and they went up even more, I could not sell it on Afternic…According to Afternic who just just monopolized my Domain BankAlliance.com and said I could not sell it for more than $20.000…( Buy Now )or it would not be listed on there site…V3d.com and I know at bottom of the barrel it is worth $150.000. According to Afternic $20.000 was the buy now price the most I could sell it for ….Just like 911 its an inside job.
I thought Afternic was a free market domain sales platform! But it is not. The market and the buyer should be the final determining factor as to what a domain is worth, Its been proven again and again insiders buy domains.
Ill bet you that there are many insiders domains that have sold for millions on Afternic…but if an average Jo puts the same domain up for sale, its probably worth about $20.000 at the tops..I smell a rat and it has a very long tail.
A free-market economy is one within which all markets are unregulated by any parties other than market participants…A completely free market is an idealized form of a market economy where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely (i.e. buy/sell/trade) based on a mutual agreement on price without intervention..
And that’s what gives every man the opportunity to grow. Whenever companies start regulating the markets, and products that opens a whole new paradigm of very negative insider possibilities.
You could have the worlds best domain and sell it for nothing, or you could have the worlds worst domain and sell it for a great profit…because in the end, its the end buyer the visionary who can turn crap to gold, or gold to crap..there are many stupid domains I would not have given $5 dollars for..but some of those domains in the right hands turned those worthless domains to millions.
And to make matters much more worse for domainers..It looks like Sedo is going to join the monopoly bandwagon and tighten the noose around domainers neck. they will decide what your domains are worth, not the end buyer. Or then again, maybe they are the end buyer…till they resale it.
@Ivan
Sedo will not allow one to price a domain above $10,000. You have to order a custom appraisal.
I put a copy of an email on my blog showing that Afternic evaluates a domain on several factors to maintain integrity. Hence, your domain will not be listed unless you reduce your price. I was told to reduce two prices below $30k or Afternic would reject them.
If you use the make offer option on Sedo, most people will aleays make you a $100 offer. One time, a bidder actually lowered their offer but the seller could only decrease theur offer. Sedo will charge $50 commission on a $100 sale. You have to park your domain onthe platform and set at a fixed price to get the 10% commission rate.
The premium accounts offer more exposure. I doubt one can get good offers without paying to advertise the domain. ChowCow dot com offers free domain name listings. ShowcaseManager dot com has a one-time fee and no commission.
Many controlled platforms intervene. One domainer claims Afternic does not set prices. Hoeever, tgry fsil to consider a domainer cannot judtvdet any price without Afternic’s approval. Essentially, the marketplace is regulated to ensure integrity. Thrn, you see many mediocre domains sellimg at astronomical amounts.
I would rather forget about overpriced domains and shady platforms (imo).
@Ivan
Sedo will not allow one to price their domain above $10,000. You have to order a custom appraisal to bypass the price limit.
I put a copy of an email on my blog showing that Afternic evaluates a domain on several factors to maintain integrity. Hence, your domain will not be listed unless you reduce your price. I was told to reduce two prices below $30k or Afternic would reject them.
If you use the make offer option on Sedo, most people will always make you a $100 offer. One time, a bidder actually lowered their offer but the seller could only decrease their offer in $10 increments. The buyer could increase their offer in $5 increments. Sedo will charge $50 commission on a $100 sale. You have to park your domain on the platform and set at a fixed price to get the 10% commission rate.
The premium accounts offer more exposure. I doubt one can get good offers without paying to advertise the domain. ChowCow dot com offers free domain name listings. ShowcaseManager dot com has a one-time fee and no commission.
Many controlled platforms intervene with the price. One domain investor claims that Afternic does not set prices. However, they fail to consider a domainer cannot just set any price without Afternic’s approval. Essentially, the marketplace is regulated to ensure integrity. Then, you see many mediocre domains selling at astronomical amounts.
I would rather forget about overpriced domains and shady platforms (imo). Top domainers will always sell high and oppose those who realize their sales are not as worthy of the price as many think. The most common way to discredit a domainer is to challenge their domain portfolio. I don’t that should have anything to do with one having a perception.
Not much one can do to change anything. Domaining is domaining and life is life. In the domain industry, Porter’s Five Forces suggests you need ample resources to climb up the ladder. It is not an industry that rewards those who don’t fit the traditional paradigm.
Correction: I don’t (that) think that should have anything to do with one having a perception.
I admit that BigGoverment dot com was under priced. The domain could have fetched much more. The domain will probably average over 1.5-2 million unique visits per month come election time.
Does a domain auction have integrity? Individuals bid on domains, the highest bidder gets the domain. True integrity is defined only , and I repeat only by the markets, the sellers domain is as valuable as the end buyer deems he is willing to pay, based on his experienced judgment as to how he will use the domain and what his return on investment will be, how can a company like Afternic, Sedo or any other middleman determine or accurately evaluate, and or rightfully judge the value of a domain, they don’t have the gift of discernment, nor can they predict or see what the specific buyer or entrepreneur has in mind, only the end user can accurately make that decision, only he can accurately speculate as to his vision and end goals, and his return on investment, and he will only pay in accordance to his ability to visualize the end product and results. Whenever a middle man steps in and regulates what he cannot visualize or determine, he is in fact presuming to have God like abilities with the capacity to read minds, see the future and predetermine through supernatural powers that he is going to be the integrity that will save the stupid buyer from his own pitiful lack of judgment …lol ..Skunk fart, if a man can afford to pay a high price it’s because he is intelligent, experienced and has the ability to see the value in the price and end product, that’s why he has the money to pay the high price or he wouldn’t if he thought it would not return his investment and much more. And to make a long story short, the buyer doesn’t make his money by being stupid, or lacking in judgment, so he does not get where he is because some middleman injected himself in his life and stifled the free market to make sure that integrity was there to save that poor dumb rich guy who is going to get much richer because he will gladly pay to have the tools to create more companies. So let’s put it all into its proper perspective, middle man stifles seller, and limits his ability to sell his product/domain in a free unrestrained way, he gives it a beautiful name ( integrity), sounds like a nice gesture, but it is in fact a controlled theft program, the free markets will always regulate the product/domain seller, because if there is no value in the perception of entrepreneurs/ buyers there will be no sale, till the price comes to a point where the market will absorb the product.
So what’s really happening is that many of these BIG DOMAIN companies made their fortune in the open free market without limited domain sales prices, and (Integrity angels). Integrity Angels are nothing more than a mechanism of extortion to keep the little guy little, by unnaturally limiting their domain sales prices, if they target a domain of high value they can keep control of that asset by limiting your access to the free markets or limiting your sell on their platform to a price they will buy it for through backroom deals buddy system… Welcome to the New World Order
@Ivan,
That’s the reason I’m struggling to survive. It seems that I’m overqualified to take lesser positions, but under qualified to do higher positions. I think domainers would criticize domaining if they endured my domain experiences. I know what domains are going to produce a sale. I only used examples in the article. I never attempted to sell the domains. I never said they were great sites.
I could post hundreds of e-mails where an end-user responds with interest. Nevertheless, these sales end up failing to materialize. I’m confident my entire portfolio is worth several times more than the boating domain. I guarantee it. I would trade my portfolio to have made that sale.
Moreover, you would not hear bragging about the big sale on my blog. I’ve made a nice sale several months ago, but never even mentioned the name or the price of the domain. This domain could have sold for double or even triple the price. I was going to ask 70% less than the final price. I took a chance to ask more and the company accepted. You have to go with your instinct. Asking high prices doesn’t always work. End-users get offended and refuse to make contact again.
However, the boating domain sells at a price that is absurd. I would congratulate any other person that sold the domain. However, I’ve talked to one particular end-user that purchased a domain from WWMI that was price at far more than its value. Just say, the end-user was not happy about the sale. I believe it’s good to see great sales.
The drawback is that you see a company making many overpriced sales while others take a lot of heat and are treated like dirt for asking a reasonable price. It comes done to owning a business and developing a reputation among the domain and online community. People don’t mind to deal with you. They would rather spend more because they know what to expect.
Thus, you begin to question whether having a company is the reason you can make such high sales. I took a lot of criticism from service companies regarding a very valuable domain they could purchase at $15,000 (owned by another). The online domain valuation platforms value the domain at over $100K. I made 200 calls across the U.S. to all relevant companies, sent e-mails and use other strategies to sell this domain. No such luck.
But then I see the boating domain sell at $25K. There is nowhere near the interest on several generic domains from the 90’s. If I could find the right end-user that understands the value, then I would close the deal. It has worked several times. Nonetheless, you need to own thousands of domains and have a reputation as a company with premium domains. In my case, I can’t afford to turn down any offers during these struggling times.
One blog owner, in particular, will say they never agree with me. They’re saying that to avoid negative attention. They have agreed with me in the past, even on the topic in discussion. People can visit the link to see for themselves. IMO, Afternic sells many overpriced domains. It doesn’t matter whether the domain owner prices the domain.
Afternic will contact those who overprice their domains to protect the integrity of their platform. If you refuse to lower your price, they will not list the domain. An end-user is not going to start off high unless they have an idea of the owner. An inexperienced may think the domain is worth $100 or even $500 to them.
The boating price probably occurred during the negotiation process. I don’t see how the domain would be accepted on the buy-it-now price option. Some domainers actually think the domain is worth the sale amount.
BigGovernment dot com is worth the sale price, plus more. The site is ranked 7,000 on Alexa, and scores nearly 1 million unique visits per month. I congratulate Mike on that sale. That sale is deserving of praise.
As previously mentioned with an end-user being unhappy about their sale, this resulted in their inability to actually use the domain to make revenue. They purchased this domain based on revenue projections. The site is not working as they planned. It is essentially worthless. They admitted WWMI wanted much more for this domain. What does that tell you? The end-user had nothing against WWMI and actually respects the company. They know that WWMI is all about negotiating the right price. The asking price in the negotiation process could have been more reasonable to a private domainer with no business.
How in the world does WWMI determine the price on this particular domain? Using their pricing formula, my domain portfolio would fetch $200K. There are many WWMI sales that are understandable and even priced far less than their value. However, there are some domains that are way overpriced. It is possible they sense an end-users desperation to acquire the domain. It’s similar to an auction, but arranged in a two party process (buyer+ seller).
I’m not bitter about domainers who sell domains. It puzzles me that some sales are over the top. Then, various domainers will claim the deal is good and it should have sold more. If you were selling the best hot dogs in Times Square, and they are priced to sell, I’m sure you would you get frustrated if customers purchase hot dogs across the street at double and triple the price because the business owner had a better name, sign and system.
In this society, people step on people who have a perception. I see many domainers that will always agree with a blog. They say what is popular to avoid criticism. I’m open to criticism. I welcome any debate on domains. I may not sell the top domains, but I have an idea which domains are deserving and which are overpriced. Many claim that another $350K sale is the most overpriced. However, I look more at the quality of a domain from several factors. Some think there is a line wrapped around the block to acquire the domain in discussion.
That’s an interesting assessment, especially when these people know the domain is overpriced. If the domain sold at $5-10K, there would be no discussion. I heard a few say they got lost in the article. The bottom line is that an end-user will top dollars to acquire a domain they need. If the end-user depends on the traffic, and it bottoms out, then they know realize they need the dot com. Most realize they waited too long, or they know it will cost them a ton of money. It really depends who owns the domain.
After the weekend, I will probably forget about this sale. I didn’t see any domain sale that frustrated me on this week’s DNJournal report. If the new owner of the boating domain can duplicate the BigGovernment traffic stats, then the sale will be acceptable. Domainers shouldn’t expect compensation or praise when they sell a domain to another who turns it into a popular site.
The former owner didn’t build the domain or put the work in to get it noticed. In the domain industry, you sell a domain and move on. Having a short-term memory is the best way to survive in this industry. If you sell high to avoid making a mistake, then that shows you’re looking too much at the end-user flipping the domain for a hefty profit. I understand domains enough to write 10 articles a day without running out of material. It is an interesting field, but some sales do puzzle me. I realize the value of domains. I’m confident there will be many more overpriced domain sales.
Jason
As you can tell I stayed mostly out of this discussion but I just wanted to wrap up a few loose ends now that I’m back from traveling.
“”Moreover, you would not hear bragging about the big sale on my blog.””
1st of all I almost never publish info about my sales on TheDomains.com and just report sales in general. If we happen to have say the highest sale for the week on afternic or sedo we will say that when we publish their weekly sales.
In any case I don’t you think you will find a post where I “brag” about a sale.
Now over on On wwmi.com we report the sales once a month but again we don’t use any language in the report that could be considered bragging, we just post the domains and the price.
“”However, I’ve talked to one particular end-user that purchased a domain from WWMI that was price at far more than its value. Just say, the end-user was not happy about the sale.””
I see this as a continuing theme not only in your comments here but on your blog as well.
Mostwanteddomains.com start in 1999 and we have sold somewhere around 200 domains a year since, so lets call that 11 years or 2200 domains more or less.
You found 1 guys that though he overpaid for a domain he purchased from us.
what does that indicate?
1 unhappy customer out of 2,200?
I’ll take that any day of the week.
BTW you think I never overpaid for a domain?
I overpaid for plenty of domains, but you know what, I don’t blame the seller I blame myself
Just like I blame myself for not buying a domain I thought at the time was too much and now think it was a bargain.
Its the guy making the decision that is too blame.
“”Afternic sells many overpriced domains. It doesn’t matter whether the domain owner prices the domain. Afternic will contact those who overprice their domains to protect the integrity of their platform. If you refuse to lower your price, they will not list the domain. An end-user is not going to start off high unless they have an idea of the owner. An inexperienced may think the domain is worth $100 or even $500 to them.””
You seemed to be pissed off at people who sell domains for more than you think they are worth
You know who you should be pissed off at?
Those who sell domains for less than there worth.
You think the owner of visitcuba.com would have gotten 6 figs for his domain if not for my visit……com sales?
No
All reported sales go to set the market and value for all other domains, including your’s.
The more I sell domains for the more your domains are worth, so if your going to hate, hate the guy who sold a domain worth $25K for $2,500 thereby reducing the value of your domains, not the guy who sold a $2,500 domain for $25K.
“BigGovernment dot com is worth the sale price, plus more. The site is ranked 7,000 on Alexa, and scores nearly 1 million unique visits per month.””
“I congratulate Mike on that sale. That sale is deserving of praise.””””
Jason when this domain was purchased from us, it has no traffic and no Alexa rank.
Its the buyer that took the domain and made it into a successful site.
If you would have known about that sale at the time you would have said it was overpriced too.
The domain has NO traffic, No links, no Alexa rank and no monthly searches.
Understand.
A great domain + put to a great use= success
boatingindustry.com can be just as successful depending on what the new owner does with the domain or it could sit doing nothing.
That is up to the owner not to the seller.
Well said, @ MHB!
$25,000 will not break the bank for many companies – it’s chicken feed. Look at these Los Angeles retail spaces:
http://www.loopnet.com/California/Los-Angeles_Retail-Properties-For-Lease
A domain name is like your address. A better address costs more, because of traffic potential. But you have to develop it right. Only, domains are still cheap, because you pay the high rent only one time, then after that, it’s renewal fee. So @ MHB is doing well, setting the bar a little higher. But there is room to go higher still.
@Jason
hope you do read all the events correctly
the key to sales MHB, FS, MM, RS have – is to be contacted, not to contact
@MHB – thanks for pushing the prices higher
Accuracy or precision in a domain name is equivalent to building any type of structure less or shorter are not necessarily valuable, if my name were (Adam Senior Smith) a short domain like Ass.com would not be far less valuable than a domain that spelled the name with accuracy, that being said a true brand is an exact name not a short in-descriptive domain. As far as I’m concerned and as far as a keyword domain there is only one proper way to describe a world center like WorldCommerceCenter.com it requires its full name to describe it, and also to keyword the domain..Contrary to popular belief/misnomer, calling things what they are is far more valuable domain than any short none describable domain name. The misnomer of shortness is a fable concocted in the early development stages of the domaining gold rush. The real gold rush will be in accuracy. Unless you want to be an ass.com. So Afternic, Sedo or any other domain sales platform claiming to be an (Integrity Angel) saving humanity from overpriced domains, you are not an angel by any means. So BoatingIndustry.com was not over priced, if it were, then you must be saying the buyer was a stupid moron, and of course only time will answer that question.
@Mike,
BigGovernment.com is a nice domain. The name itself was stellar. I would have never challenged that sale. With holding an MA degree in Public Administration, big government is a popular term. I agree with your sale price. Since you own several companies, it makes sense for you to maximize your domain sales.
Look at Afternic’s SuperTomato.com sale at $15,725. The recent WeightMatters.com sale at $15,000 is another puzzling sale. The tomato domain is parked like a vegetable. I assume the owner purchase the super tomato domain based on researchers claiming the super tomato improves heart functionality.
Domain stats do have value. I refuse to buy hundreds of domains with no keyword value. That wouldn’t make any sense. Domainers on your blog may criticize my experience, but I know enough about domains to determine the difference between a good and bad domain. I never offered the two industry domains to an end-user (only examples).
I admit that I’m actually pissed off. I live a low quality life. I invested a ton of time locating some good quality domains. I have a ton of education. I can write like a tornado. I stay up late to write hundreds of articles to help people. I don’t get much sleep. I always worry about how to survive. I don’t make a penny from my blog.
I’m sure that if you browsed my current domain portfolio, you would find some quality domains. The problem is that when domain companies such as yours sell domains high, then end-users will give small domainers a hard time. Your reputation, past sales, and large domain portfolio factors-into your ability to make consistent sales. You can reject offers that would improve my quality of life.
I do make decent sales. If you can sell NewYorkStrippers.com at $5,000 (low stats), but then I’m constantly rejected on selling LasVegasEscortService.net for much less (.com sold for $5,000 at Sedo in 09), that bothers me. You have a high-quality life. A few domainers noted they would not approach Frank and you to purchase domainers because you guys sell at end-user prices.
Your domain sales are not the only domain name sales that bother me. Afternic sold CollegeJob.net for $1,000. I sold 12 job domains in a package deal worth a hundred times more than the college domain is worth.
However, I received half the amount for the domains because I don’t have the contacts. Afternic produces many overpriced domain sales (it’s a proven fact). Would I be able to sell XrayTechnicianJobs.net and JobsInMedical.net at $1,000? It doesn’t matter if these domains appraise at $3900 and $29,00- respectively. I don’t rely on Estibot and Valuate to set prices.
What about 1932Quarter.com? That domain once produced 17,000 unique and 300 ad clicks per month. Could I see the domain for high 4 figures. Probably not. Coin sites are gold mines. Again, I don’t have the contacts. Will I make revenue writing hundreds or even thousands of domain articles with good information? Not a chance.
People read my articles to locate domain tips. I don’t make profit from my traffic. Selling domains are tough. If you read my last article, you will see that even highly generic domain names are not a sure sale.
People with experience and good education that are passed up for promotion are bitter. What if they have to train an inexperienced person that gets paid more than them? There is too much inequity in business, especially in the domain industry. As one to 10 domainer put it, you have to attend domain functions to gain respect and to make connections.
Without establishing a reputation in the domain industry, you are basically wasting your time. People will never listen to your advice. They want to know what domains you own and your top domain sales. It doesn’t matter if you can help them based on your experience (mistakes, sales, and registrations). What if another reader criticized your domain purchase? And then you go out and sell a 3 month old domain for 4 figures?
I can handle the criticism. I write from experience. It bothers me to see domains with less quality sell at high prices. Read my recent article on the haunted domain sales I lost out on. You own many quality domains. However, I admit you do get prices on some domains that are less deserving.
The end-user makes the decision on what to pay. A $25,000 sale with all extensions available is steep. I’m sure you negotiated with the end-user to settle on the $25K. The stripper domain is also another high price. I can see if it were LasVegasStrippers.com. Clubs are most popular in NYC.
@BMR,
The domain investors you mention developed a reputation to sell at high prices. I’m sure they can sell our domains at much higher price than we can sell them at.
One top 10 domainer agreed with me. I felt that my lack of connections prevented me from maximizing my sales.
For example, I send an e-mail to congratulate a buyer of a domain. I then offer 3 domains to the buyer at $300 less than what he paid for his one domain. He responds back with a price request. I send the price. He replies back that he will pass. He went from interested to less interested. No matter how much I dropped the price, he never responded again.
Prices offend people. One resume company requested the price on 75 resume domains. You give them a good price. They never reply back again no matter what. You give them an opportunity to make an offer. No contact.
The domain investors you mentioned have money. They can sit back and wait until they receive a price they want. When you don’t have the resources like WWMI, DomainNameSales, DomainMarket, and RS’s assets, you will struggle to close deals.
I’ve been reading their blogs as well as past news reports covering these domainers the past few years. You have to admit that owning a company will increase your sales. Type “resume” and or “Astral” in on DomainMarket. There is nothing good there.
When the end-user knows you have a need to sale, they will not buy from you. It’s a competition strategy. However, they are more than willing to pay top dollars on a domain platform.
Price matters. People would rather buy a mediocre domain with average stats at much more than a domain name with impressive stats. Why? The lesser domain gains respect because the owner retained it for several years. Why reward a domainer who finds a quality site last years? Again, it is a competition strategy. There is some bitterness involved as well.
One domainer admitted he refused to reward another who competes against his company to buy domains. He noted that he has to draw the line. Buyers who request price, and then refuse to make contact afterward get offended.
A car salesman who asks above MRSP for a car will offend a customer. One Nissan dealership once marked up all their prices $4,000 above MRSP. People would get pissed off, especially knowing the dealership tried to rip them off. Essentially, they would refuse to buy a car even if the price was reduced to $100 over deal cost.
For a domainer with no company backing, price matters. For a domainer who runs a top domain marketplace, price is just a number that can rise above a ceiling and go beyond the clouds. When you call hundreds of end-users to present top domains another person owns form the 90’s and get rejected and told they could register a new domain to outperform that domain, that gets frustrating.
Companies would rather deal with domain companies to pay top prices than to make a random domainer rich. It is all about price. What if top domain marketplaces reject an offer on a lesser extension that you own the dot com? What if selling that domain can improve your life?
There is not much one can learn when they have gained the experience. The problem is establishing a reputation, owning a company and having access to unlimited funds. There are many companies that disagree with owning a top generic domain. It wouldn’t make sense to offer a service domain at $25k to a small business that only has two employees.
However, it would make sense to offer a keyword domain to a top resume company who depends on the service, for several times the domain valuation prices because the owner knows it deserves that price.
People will reply back to request a price. Then, the price offends them. They refuse to respond back to negotiate. Instead of working the price up, you must reduce the price to salvage a sale. But when these buyers change their mind, there is not much one can do. If convey to the end-user to make you an offer, they have no clue what to offer. Eventually, the end-user loses interest in acquiring the domains.
MHB is a high roller. FS, RS, and MM control the domain world. These domainers can sell at high prices. Even other domain bloggers own companies.
Would I be wrong to ask $10K for 1932Quarter.com based on 30,000 unique visits and 650 ad clicks in two months? If I asked that price, I would never receive a reply back. However another domain company can close a coin sale at mid 4 figures with no problem, even if they wanted more at the beginning.
End-users seem to reward domainers who retain their domains for long periods of time. Why reward a domainer with a domain aged 1 year? Some may think domain age has nothing to do with price. If a domainer owned a domain for 10 years and let it drop, and then it is deleted, the buyer will look at the domain at being relatively new.
Domain with low stats and little market value are selling at high prices? I noticed that many of these domains were registered prior to 2003. That demonstrates that aged domains as well as speculation produce high prices. Furthermore, industry reputation enables one to receive prices that others don’t normally get. I believe in that notion. Since I lack a domain industry presence, my opinion is tossed into the quicksand.
The top domainers establish a reputation to command high prices. They will use flossy terms and even reject high offers to show a buyer they will not accept less for a domain they know is of quality. When you lack resources, an end-user will sense there is desperation to close a sale. It’s like you’re trying to get rid of a bad apple. You should never share your personal struggles with a buyer.
Unless I make a massive sale, my opinion is like helium in a balloon; it will eventually fade away. I suppose we will see many more high sales for a dot com with all extensions available. You can own the dot com when all extensions are taken, the keyword has many searches and the domain generates 2,000 unique per month, but you will struggle to sell the domain.
I never thought the domain industry was fair. I do believe that owning a company will give one more credibility since an owner has to pay overhead costs. Moreover, networking is the most effective way to establish a presence in the domain industry. The domain industry is almost like the car sales industry. Smart customers will always get a better price than less educated customers. I compare customers to end-uses who overpay to acquire domains.
Some domain sales are pure luck, and then there are others that require sales strategy. Domainers who own companies use sales strategies to maximize sales. While I don’t agree with every sale, I question the notion why end-users would rather pay higher prices to deal with domainers known to sell at high end-user price than to buy from domainers.
One buying prospect waited 11 months to return an e-mail. She wanted two domains offered to her last year. However, she never responded to my e-mail the second time around. I never mentioned price in the e-mail.
It would be great to not worry when a deal fails to work out. When there is a need to make a sale, then it seems that an end-user can sense the urge to sell a domain domain like wolves smelling blood. A few weeks after this article, my traffic returned back to normal. Blog traffic is a whole another topic that adheres to the same formula as selling domains – reputation, trust, and familiarity. You then begin to realize that maybe the domain industry only accommodates certain people. That’s life. There’s not much one can do to change a perception.
Jason
Do you have your domain names listed for sale at Afternic.com?
@Jason
You don’t need a “reputation” to sell at high prices, you need domain that are of a high quality or names people specifically need/want.
“For example, I send an e-mail to congratulate a buyer of a domain. I then offer 3 domains to the buyer at $300 less than what he paid for his one domain. He responds back with a price request.”
I’m not sure why people think this strategy would work. A buyer buys something they specifically need, then someone emails them trying to selling something “similar” (which usually isn’t really similar in quality) and wonders why it doesn’t sell. For the people who aren’t selling regularly (or getting regular interest) the problem is the domains.
@Mike,
I have 80-100 domain names up for sale at Afternic.
@ Snoopy,
The strategy has worked. That is only one technique. I’ve used several strategies. I sold a nice builder domain to a high traffic resume company, several tax domains, movie domains, two dozen job domains and others, and others.
People do want the domains. Price and too much information is the problem.
I once offended another due to the price. However, I managed to repair the situation to make additional sales.
Your comments suggest that I don’t know the difference between a quality domain and a bad domain. At least you’re consistent.
The person who I recently contacted wanted the domains. People don’t request prices if they don’t need a domain. I also receive rejections passing on domains.
I never offer what a person/end-user doesn’t need. I’m not going to offer a movie domain to a taxi company or a job domain to an education company.
I do sell regularly, but I don’t produce the prices that most get on Afternic. I have received good prices in the past. You seem to judge my experience based on me mentioning those two industry domains. I can’t shake those domains off from any discussion.
If I share too much information about why I’m selling a domain, then many end-users use that to deny me a sale. I lost several sales being too personable. I can’t mention student loans, struggling, unfortunate events, and etc.. In the business world, people will use your weaknesses against you.
I research companies to offer relevant keywords they use. Your argument is that quality is the problem. However, there are many domains on many platforms that are of quality and don’t sell. Reputation, contacts, trust and past business deals have a lot to do with making good sales. Luck matters too.
In my opinion, I believe my dependence on selling domains to survive has put me in a position to lose sales. If domains were only a hobby, I’m sure I would have better results. The worst part of domaining is losing out on a sale you need, especially when a people contacts you to ask for the price. You should never lose a sale when there is interest to acquire the domain.
I know the difference between a quality domain name and a bad domain. You can test my knowledge and determine whether I can differentiate various domains. I don’t think my lack of making consistent big sales is due to owning the wrong domain. Some businesses don’t want to spend the money.
If you own keywords these companies use and depend on, then how am I offering a domain they don’t want and need? My problem is dependence. Things never work out at the right time. Two top 10 have told me to either network or to not take up on domaining when I have limited resources. Showing any signs of needing to sell a domain will put you in an inferior position.
If the DNJournal reports a dot info or dot info to the dot com or dot net you own in that exact name, I don’t think I’m offering less quality. What if you are asking far less than they paid for their name?
One domainer told me they would not compete against or reward another that beats them to various domains. People will reward domainers who manage to retain a domain name for a long period of time (domain age is important).
I’m sure you’ve seen less quality domains sell at much higher prices than your domains. You assume that my interpretation of quality is the problem. One past buyer noted they overpaid on a domain; they were not in a position to purchase another domain.
Another who left a comment on this blog wanted one of my dot org with 6 million average keyword results and 80,000 exact searches. However, they didn’t have the funds available to make the investment, even though the domain would help fuel their project.
@Mike,
I have 80-100 domain names up for sale at Afternic.
@ Snoopy,
The sales strategy has worked. That is only one technique. I’ve used several strategies. I sold a nice builder domain to a high traffic resume company, several taxi domains, movie domains, two dozen job domains and others, and others.
People do want the domains. Price and too much information is the problem.
I once offended a few end-users due to the asking price. However, I managed to repair the situation to make additional sales.
Your comments suggest that I don’t know the difference between a quality domain and a bad domain. At least you’re consistent.
The person who I recently contacted wanted the domains. People don’t request prices if they don’t need a domain. I have also received many rejections passing on domains.
I never offer what a person/end-user doesn’t need. I’m not going to offer a movie domain to a taxi company or a job domain to an education company.
I do sell regularly, but I don’t produce the prices that most get on Afternic. I have received good prices in the past. You seem to judge my experience based on me mentioning those two industry domains. I can’t shake those domains off from any discussion.
If I share too much information about why I’m selling a domain, then many end-users use that to deny me a sale. I lost several sales being too personable. I can’t mention student loans, struggling, unfortunate events, and etc.. In the business world, people will use your weaknesses against you.
I research companies to offer relevant keywords they use. Your argument is that quality is the problem. However, there are many domains sitting on a few domain platforms that are of quality and don’t sell. Reputation, contacts, trust and past business deals have a lot to do with making good sales. Luck matters too.
In my opinion, I believe my dependence on selling domains to survive has put me in a position to lose sales. If domains were only a hobby, I’m sure I would produce better results. The worst part of domaining is losing out on a sale you need, especially when a lead contacts you to request the price. You should never lose a sale when there is interest to acquire the domain.
I know the difference between a quality domain name and a bad domain. You can test my knowledge and determine whether I can differentiate various domains. I don’t think my lack of making consistent big sales is due to owning the wrong domains. Some businesses don’t want to spend the money. Offering 90’s domains to some companies that don’t understand the value is a problem.
I contact past buyers on the DNJournal sales list because apparently they understand the value. You don’t have to invest time into explaining the value of the domain name to them. One person who purchased Frank’s domains would have bought a few domains if I owned two resume keywords he wanted. He didn’t need additional service domains.
If you own keywords these companies use and depend on, then how am I offering a domain they don’t want and need? Mayne they don’t want to spend the money. Their budget may not permit them to spend. One city wanted all my city domains in their area; however their operating budget didn’t allow for a purchase. One of the domains was the dot org of their city, a GEO city rentals, apartments and hotels dot com.
My problem is dependence. I’m willing to drop prices way down during times when I need to make a sale. Things never work out at the right time. Two top 10 have told me to either network or to not take up on domaining when I have limited resources. Showing any signs of needing to sell a domain will put you in an inferior position.
If the DNJournal reports a dot info or dot usto the dot com or dot net you own in that exact name, I don’t think I’m offering less quality. What if you are asking far less than they paid for their name? Have you considered that? Some people have limited funds available to make purchases.
One domainer told me they would not compete against or reward another that beats them to various domains. People will reward domainers who manage to retain a domain name for a long period of time (domain age is important).
I’m sure you’ve seen less quality domains sell at prices must higher than your domains. You assume that my interpretation of quality is the problem. One past buyer noted that they overpaid on a domain; they were not in a position to purchase another domain.
Another who left a comment on this blog wanted one of my dot org with 6 million average keyword results and 80,000 exact searches. However, they didn’t have the funds available to make the investment, even though the domain would help fuel their project. I would have negotiated a good deal.