As reported by TechCrunch.com last night and by DomainNameNews.com, Poker.Org sold for a cool Million yesterday by National A-1 and brokered by Jeffrey M. Gabriel of Sedo.com
As you also probably know the sale shattered the previous record for the then highest .org sale of engineering.org at $198K, and our sale of Sexe.Org last year for $151K.
So the question becomes is this sale a game changer?
I believe so.
Selling for more than 5 times than the previous highest sale, coupled with breaking the seven figure mark, the sale is going to effect the value of bang on, category killer .org.
I know your saying this was a unique situation, a perfect storm, which created the sale.
An end user who really wanted and could afford the domain and a Seller that didn’t need the money and could hold out for his price.
But that is exactly the situation that sets records and changes markets.
I think this sale will have the same physiological effect that the sale of Men.com did for the resale market when it sold for $1.3M (another situation of a Seller who would not sell below his price).
Does this mean that every .org is worth more than it was yesterday, No.
But for those category killer .org’s the bar has been raised and the game changed.
We opened a poll on the right so you can log your opinion.
It’s a one-off.
Look at Beauty.cc for a $1 million. No game change there…
Also gambling plus a .org is definitely an anomaly lol
Sellers will all believe their .org’s will be worth a fortune (a few exceptions)
and more renewal fees will be wasted.
John
Game changer or not – This is a significant sale that will shock many people (at a time when our economy is going through one of its worst financial recessions) – And it further validates domains as an asset class.
Poker is in a class by itself and always has been. Great sale and buy but it doesn’t translate directly to the rest of the market. The other anomaly is the “land next door” cases where the name fits well into the niche or portfolio of a company. The land next door comes from the higher prices of land paid by adjacent land owners and farmers. It was worth more to them because there equipment was already close by and it was easy to get to. It made the entire package more valuable.
Shane
I think anytime you break a barrier like the 7 figure mark its has implications
Sex.net sold for $450K a couple of years ago.
You don’t think the price for say sex.org is now 7 figures?
MHB,
Even before this sale .org was my second favorite extension behind .com I think it has a much bigger upside then .net. We know the credibility it carries in the marketplace. I do think this accelerates the value with prime category killers. Depending on how it’s utilized and promoted will be the real factor as to how much. 99 percent of Internet users will not hear about this sale. Having the name splashed all over the place is what will do more then simply the sale price alone.
Well sex is in another class as well.
You’re talking two different industries and monetization methods.
Maybe the perception to the general non-domaining public
could be 7 figures for sex.org.
Not so sure about domainers/investors.
It does have implications, but not sure about it being a game changer.
One time Francois made a good point in an email to me when I was listing/selling a killer one word .org on his site. He said “I sold xxxxxxx.org for 100k does this mean you can sell for 50k?, no”. In other words just because it sold for this much doesn’t always mean every other name is worth more (.org that is) – That stuck with me and kept me grounded.
Mike, would you price your .orgs in your portfolio higher because of
this sale? Do you think starting offers from buyers may be higher?
Valuate says that Poker.org is worth $ 19,000
and Sex.org is worth $ 6,600
The automatic appraisals can’t be on the money all of the time.
I always liked the .org a lot, and even alot better than the .net, because of .net´s whois policy..
But I disagree, that 99% of internet users won´t hear about this sale. Gambling and Erotic domain sales (like sex.com) are always being recognized across the internet, i.e. in some of the blogs or dozen tech-channels..
I hope this sale helps CNOBI domains to get the recognition they deserve, being possible kategory killer keyword domains!
Next time you decide visiting an automatic appraisal website, or go even further to “purchase” one…please walk to the nearest hard surface (door, wall, floor, etc.) and proceed to bang your head until it hurts.
Then, take a step back and repeat, “I am an idiot”, until you get it.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN APPRAISAL PEOPLE, WAKE UP.
This isn’t traditional real estate – where zip code plus square feet equal price. NOT even close.
There are numerous variables to the value of a generic domain, and if you’re using these random sites to determine the value of your digital assets, you have a lot to learn, and good luck, you’ll need it.
Length of reg, domain length, backlinks, current traffic, tld, organic listings, industry of name, sales comps, how bad the buyers wants the name (iReport.com) …or how long the seller can hold out (Poker.org).
In my experience and opinion, there is ZERO value from sites like bido/valuate, godaddy appraisals, etc., etc., etc.,
Domains are unique and each one will have a different value to a different buyer. There are many names I would pay $20,000 for and Mike and others would pay $100 for and vice versa.
Million dollar sales like these are not game changers all by themselves but temporarily they bring the focus to domains and we are starting to see more of them thus they do help change the game but momentum needs to continue every few months with a big sale like this. Eventually it will, as we are still in diapers as an industry.
.com, .net and .org are proven trusted extensions. John’s comment “”Look at Beauty.cc for a $1 million. No game change there” … Of course, it wasn’t. .CC is an extension almost forgotten about and that was a one off for an extension that has little street credit except for clearchannel owned properties. The rest of the world doesn’t care or know about .cc so it seems like another “get rich quick sucker” sale to people unfamilar with domains.
Global trusted extensions like .com .net and .org will always benefit from sales like these.
In fact, Poker.org is much better than beauty.org or something similar at $1,000,000 becuase instanly people realize how owners can make money knowning that poker is a killer money maker on the web.
When the public can assosociate a tangible value (poker) with the sale of a domain at a price that is realistic and not over the top they create legitimacy in the public view for these domains and thus raise values for many key domains.
The train has to keep moving though … hang in there
Beauty.cc was simply a ploy to try to raise the value of that TLD. This is a much different situation. I’ve spoken with Jeffrey about the sale and it was no anomaly. The enduser wanted this name and was willing to pay the price. DotCom, dotOrg and dotNet are the three “legacy” TLDs. Therefore, none of them should ever be taken lightly. This will really come to light when all the new TLDs (Fool’s Gold) are released. When that happens, dotCom, dotOrg and dotNet will be solidied as the platinum, gold and silver standard of the domain investment world.
rio.org seems like another candidate for 7 figs with the great beaches, beautiful women, olympics bid…etc. I wonder who owns it?
David
“Beauty.cc was simply a ploy to try to raise the value of that TLD”
No way … You’re kidding me !!!
🙂
FreePoker.org is the highest ranking .org domain for the search term poker on Google. Page 4, # 6 currently.
Blackjack.org, a site the buyers also own beats out Blackjack.com in Google by one spot. P1, # 5!
.org has good fits and not so good fits. It can often outrank a .com when used correctly but the biggest downfall is a gambling site is not all that likely to get direct navigation off of a .org.
The Trust .org brings to SE users is a huge plus and Google loves exact match domains! The buyers have a proven system working for them and this purchase will use the same system. They felt having Poker.org was there best shot at hitting P1 on G for the matching term and they will likely do it IMO!
National A-1 Advertising owns thousands of domains, most of which are related to the porn industry. Their biggest money maker is hotmovies.com, and of course they own hotmovies.org as well. Another gem is fuckyou.com.
Brian
I agree with you on .org after .com my favorite choice as well.
John
This poker.org story was originally put out by techcrunch which has a much wider audience than just those in the domainer community.
So I would say there will be a substantial number of internet savvy people that will hear about this sale.
I already see about 50 posts about this picked up by Google news from all over the world.
Would I price every .org I own higher, no just like I said in my post, but a one word category killer name I would ask more for than before the sale and would pay more than before the sale.
Wish I would have picked up smart.org at domainfest now.
Rio.com sold for $450,000 so doubt the .org selling for more than double that.
I think it raises the bar Michael for great .org names on par with poker. Names like Casino,Beauty,Loans,Cars,HealthCare. But everyone who owns decent .org names should not be looking for immediate boost in pricing. Again IMO
IMO, not that great of a decision by PokerCompany.com. Even if they develop a blockbuster site on Poker.org, a lot of traffic will end up spilling over to Poker.com
Also, from looking at their other sites, Blackjack.org / Craps.net , they are not that innovative in development either.. it is just a CMS with some articles and afflinks.
But on the other hand, there is so much loose $$ in the gambling affiliate biz that $1M is probably nothing to them anyway.
I find if a domain owner tried to sell smart .org to another domainer he could not get $ 100 for it.
A domainer just sold it at domainfest to another domain for $8,500 and there were several bidders
I just picked up PersonalGrants.org for $3k this morning.
Domainers will pay much more at auctions but if offered
to you directly domainers will pay very little.
Crazy logic
Lightning strikes, “Bill Gates” buys a specific .org for $1m and the next minute the universe of “super premium” .org domains increases in valuation by (guessing) $20m or whatever…
Some must think it’s analogous to stocks…when intel raises sales forecasts which in turn “lifts all boats” (stocks) in the semi-conductor sector. FAIL.
Truth is, poker.org selling for $1m is a completely independent event (with a different buyer profile) from eg. loans.org
Conversely if poker.org had sold for $50,000 – no doubt – many of you would dismiss it as a spurious event and make excuses such as “seller needed the money”…blabla…
Domainers…always quick to account for positive news but dismiss the negative.
Not a game changer for the domain industry. For Poker? –> To Be Determined.
Ploy’s like beauty.cc have been conduct by the best of them (domain auction houses) What happened to .tv and .mobi? Where are the multimillion’s that people ranted about in these tld’s ?
.Org is my second favorite also but still a far distant to .com which is really what matters, the distance between the two that is. The word “Favorite” is a qualitative factor but in actuality we are more interested in Quantitative factors.
So then was Dating.org a bargain at 22.5k at the last auction Domain Fest Auction? MHB conducted a poll here at TheDomains.com and it go 1 (one) vote.
http://www.thedomains.com/2010/01/29/quick-poll-what-was-the-best-buy-from-the-live-trafficdomafest-conferences/
All of sudden everyone is .org fan, might this be a ploy ?
this sales surely validates domains as an asset class.
If somebody overpays for a domain name it doesn’t change the game. Poker is a top keyword but it doesn’t fit a not for profit extension like .org. Something like Poker.pro would fit because players aspire to be Poker Pros.
Also, there is no such thing as a category killing .org. Category killer means can’t be bettered and .org is bettered by the equivalent .com and usually the .net for commercial keywords like Poker.
@Valuate is garbage – you wrote:
“Next time you decide visiting an automatic appraisal website, or go even further to “purchase” one…please walk to the nearest hard surface (door, wall, floor, etc.) and proceed to bang your head until it hurts.
Then, take a step back and repeat, “I am an idiot”, until you get it.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN APPRAISAL PEOPLE, WAKE UP.
This isn’t traditional real estate – where zip code plus square feet equal price. NOT even close.
There are numerous variables to the value of a generic domain, and if you’re using these random sites to determine the value of your digital assets, you have a lot to learn, and good luck, you’ll need it.
Length of reg, domain length, backlinks, current traffic, tld, organic listings, industry of name, sales comps, how bad the buyers wants the name (iReport.com) …or how long the seller can hold out (Poker.org).
In my experience and opinion, there is ZERO value from sites like bido/valuate, godaddy appraisals, etc., etc., etc.,”
– may I ask to clarify how Bido falls into this category of valuation services? We do not offer a valuation service, we agree with your points as to why they are not worthwhile.
What we have is the Bido Guarantee Program and it takes yesterday’s valuation services for a wild ride:
http://www.bido.com/BidoGuarantee
Sellers submit their domains to the program and its presented to some of the top buyers in the industry (and we are always adding more). After the private auction ends, the partner who is willing to pay the most for it will have their offer (the Guarantee) presented to the seller for the seller’s choice: accept the Guarantee, decline, or send the domain to public auction using 75% of the Guarantee placed automatically as a starting bid, and where other bidders can participate.
So as you can see, in this program, you walk away knowing what someone will actually pay for the domain, or you can actually sell the domain for the amount presented, or take a chance and maybe get even more.
We also have a program at Bido called Vote For Profits: http://www.bido.com/VoteForProfits
With this program, sellers submit their domains with prices. The community votes on what will go to auction based on the domain in relation to it’s BidoPrice. The community votes on how strongly they feel the domain is likely to sell at that price (or more). This is a screening process, its a human filtering process where we crowdsource the selection of what goes to auction. It’s how we have auctions of items that are In-Demand. It’s not a valuation, its just voters selecting items that are likely to sell at that price.
Those are the only two things that we feature that can be remotely compared to a valuation service. But to mention us to be like a valuation site with those others you pointed out, I kindly ask for clarification because I really don’t see any other aspect of Bido that can be compared with a valuation service. We do not provide appraisals. The Bido Guarantee Program provide sellers with actual Guarantees to purchase items.
Regards,
Jarred
I think that this is probably one of those exceptions that the end-user sees a certain value to the domain because that domain serves a certain purpose for that specific end-user.
If I were to guess I would think that because .org stands for “ organization “ or “ organized “ it is desired in this case and plays an important role because it can be made into a brand that gives certain reassurance to the players (visitors) and tells them that they are playing at a legitimate site that can be trusted.
(just my opinion)
generic and category leading domains related to industry’s which you cannot purchase PPC ads for at google/yahoo/msn are worth a huge premium… they are in their own class
enough said.
Well put Michael, this is definitely a game changer. There are a number of domainers out there that will hop on for the ride. Your gonna notice more and more people taking the (.org) extension just a little more serious. In reference to the smart.org domain name which was sold at DomainFest, the price it sold for was a steal.
Category killer domains are here to stay and the .org extension is a serious PLAY! 🙂
All you domainers out there need to stop drinking each others cool aid!
This one sale is not a game changer, this was simply an unusual case. If the .org extension is as good as some of you claim, why are more names being registered under .com, .net and .info on a consistent basis? Look for yourselves.
http://dailychanges.com/
http://domain-daily.com/
The .org extension may be better in some respects in terms of resell value, but this is only between one knucklehead domainer to another.
Lets not forget that the .org charter states this extension is for non-profit organizations only. What happens if this charter is enforced?
Any time a domain name sells for 7 figures, regardless of it’s extension, it is always good for the market. Holders of domain names should be excited about this sale.
I am guessing the owners are thinking if they get 25,000 players giving a 40 dollar rake each month playing online poker to the house each month they will make all this up in 10 months.
Regardless it is good for people who invest in domain names.
This is a game changer only for Poker.com
If they put a successful website on the .org, the .com will benefit from additional traffic.
How much is Poker.com worth based on this sale? $100 million?
I tried many times asking 1 million USD for my own 1 word generic .com
but the replies I received are, its too expensive.
I send over 200 -300 personalized emails to end users, but only a few reply. and most won’t even pay 5 figures.
How do you guys negotiate to get this sort of big sales ?
I sure hope it is a game changer!
Perhaps now someone will pony up $4k for “Poker.ST” !
The sale is a one time anomaly. For the most part .org’s are worth very little. Perhaps fools will start paying 5-20K for some .orgs hoping for a windfall, good luck.
They could not get .com so they must have though .org was good enough.
We agree. Most people who are going to a specific site and type something else by accident leave fast. There is little crossover.
I am going to Amazon and forget a letter, same thing. I have no interest in the other site.
Some of the posts are a JOKE. Nothing is going to “wake up” the domain sales market. Good domains that are priced right sell. 99% of the domains that are for sale these days are garbage.
Look at the lists and tell me what is good. Guns.com was great. I cannot think of one other great domain that was for sale lately. If there was we would probably be interested.
Overpaying for a GREAT domains makes far more sense than smaller payments for junk. Rio was good, Pizza was good,
And BTW most adult domains are dead and will never come back. Only the very best bring decent but not great pricing.
If you believe that what are CALORIE.ORG & SeniorCitizens.org worth then. I have owned them for 10-years.
zero and maybe a few thousand
auction them at no reserve and move on
@Rick
It’s probably not fair to ask because you would be a likely bidder, but do you think sex.com will be an exception to this rule, or not?
“And BTW most adult domains are dead and will never come back. Only the very best bring decent but not great pricing.”
Bruce
CALORIE.ORG is value is negligible & SeniorCitizens.org is worth probably in the $2-3K range based on the .com failing to sell at $75K at the last TRAFFIC auction and that .org generally are worth 5% of .com’s
NO
Sex.com will never ever bring close to what it “reportedly” did before.
It is NOT a great domain regardless of what people think. I take that back, it is a good domain if it can be pruchased at a fair price. We believe it does or will not not convert and the income or even the potential income does not come close to what the asking price will be.
We do not yet know of the auction is structured correctly. If there is a reserve and it is not published we have NO interest in bidding.
We believe there will be a reserve that will be far too high and the sellers are only testing the waters to see who is interested and for how much. We hope we are incorrect and are looking into it.
Toys.com is by FAR better than Sex.com.
Rick, the issue is more less how does one “get” to a website. The vast majority of my friends use google and their word suggestion tool. Thats why poker.org is an incredibly low price in hopes for a higher ranking in google. The spread of pricing b/w the .org and .com continues to narrow since it is apparent that google doesn’t value the .com to the degree which the spread exists.
For the investor, it would be wise to diversify and sell a few .coms and for the same keyword in the .org purely for ROI. Another words, lets say your stock portfolio only consisted of blue chips like MSFT, GE, XON, etc.. You would lag far behind the guy who had a much more balanced portfolio of mid and small caps sprinkled in.
Your post makes sense but I still do not see domainers spending much on the better .orgs.
We have not and do not plan to.
I play a good amount of live and online poker. For the most part people do not use Google to find a poker site. Your theory would be better sutied for other categories.
The only reason poker words are so high in google is that the value of a customer is substantial.
Have any .orgs for sale?
Rick
You can check out my thoughts on this auction on a post I wrote last night and just auto published.
http://www.thedomains.com/2010/02/19/why-sex-com-may-not-sell-in-foreclosure/
Game changer? Probably not, but only time will tell. I rather think the .com.co TLD will certainly gain a foothold. In regard to something mentioned by a few commenters: Google does not take TLDs into consideration in pagerank or placement in the SERPs. So long as a keyword appears in the domain, has good quality inbound links from authority sites, contains valuable content, good on-page SEO, etc… Google couldn’t care a rats patootie about the TLD. You can easily find a .info or a .org ranking high above a .com on many terms.
It is definitely a game changer, and a wake up call to the that part of the world that lives in the “it must be .com” past.
People don’t care what extension it is, as long as they get to where they want to get to. Google doesn’t care either. so why should you?
I have always been a big fan of .ORG when it comes to GEO Domains.
I think there are other fields in which they excel as well, but gambling would not have fit that bill (until this week).
CityName.org
CountryName.org
Regions.org
GreenDomains.org
EcoDomains.org
These are all very strong in the .org area and IMHO worth every bit as much as the .COM.
If by “game changer” you mean that:
“those of us with single word .org domains will be flooded with lowball $20 offers”
then yes it is a game changer.
I fully expect more silly lowball offers to start rolling in as a result. No problem, I have fully mastered the delete button on my mailer.
NP
Poker.com is worth $20M-$30M
.Org are worth 5% or so of .com’s value
I think Poker.com is worth $100M+
MHB
The point I was making (or trying to make) in my earlier post is that general human nature is more predictable than the absolute pricing impact. The one certain outcome is that there will be a flood of new .org registrations, and a flood of lowball email from domainers sent to owners of one word .org domains.
Alright, any offers for Board(s).ORG? hehe…
This is an encouraging sale for domainers – but like you have stated, could be an one-off perfect storm. Let’s keep an eye on poker.org to see what the new owner does with it – it’s got to have tons of money behind it.
The reason poker.org was such a beast has a lot to do with the affiliate programs that are out there for online poker. As far as lucre, it has no peer- like, not in the same universe. The potential for substantial passive income is there.
Obviously, this is “the” one-word category killing name, thus the price.
As far as .org, I’ve never subscribed to the com/net/org TLD hierarchy. Matter of fact, in most situations, I will take a .org over a .net, presuming there is synergy between the keyword and the extension. I wouldn’t buy cheapmattresses.org, but I drool heavily over any pure geo.org or deeply definitive names like this, where some sort of community format can be developed and monetized. The way things have evolved, .org is a TLD that ‘makes sense’ in the eyes of the public. No, it’s no .com, but it’s no orphan like .net seems to be, and when I see sales like Portland.org on SEDO @ 10K, all I can do is shake my head and realize that I’m living in the good old days.
One wildcard here, that’s worth consideration.
The poker world is a mind-bogglingly odd place. In this strangest of strange worlds, you have 19 year old kids banging down six and seven figures a year while laying in bed playing online poker on a laptop. You have the upper-echelon pros in Las Vegas who might lose a million dollars in a single five hour session, then go to bed later that night and sleep like a baby without the slightest worry or panic. I can’t think of another ‘world’ where money flows so cheap, easy and is treated so loosely than the poker world. All it would take is a well connected player to make a few phone calls- saying that they wanted to buy poker.org and they had a great idea for it- and that million could be arranged at the drop of a hat. Unquestionably, this name will go to someone who will use it- and fast- but it wouldn’t surprise me if there was actual ‘poker money’ behind it’s acquisition.
If Poker.org is worth $1,000,000, what is the value of Poker.BS and FreePoker.net?
Mike,
I’m impressed when the .org registry quotes you.
Nice going.
http://pir.org/node/405
Small
Thanks but I would have been more impressed if they actually knew what MHB stood for.
guess it’s the right time to find a buyer for my Dr DOT org then lol